Eurostars fleet?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Bridge189, 22 Jan 2013.

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  1. Bridge189

    Bridge189 Member

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    Does anybody know what Eurostar have got planned for their new Siemens Valero trains which are due to be delivered fairly soon? I presume the first three-six months or so will be for crew/depot training but beyond then has it been announced yet what routes etc they will run on? I know it was hinted they would be for new routes with the 373s staying the mainstay on the Paris/Brussels routes.

    Also isn't the first 373 due to enter the works for the planned internal rebuild soon?
     
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  3. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    Can't answer the first questions, but im sure a Eurostar set has already gone into the works somewhere for refurbishment. Mind you, we already (sort of) know what it'll look like externally post refurb as Hornby are producing one in their 2013 Range. Then there's the new not as good livery on the first E320 already.

    As for services - Im sure the E320s are to be used on the new Amsterdam services aswell.
     
  4. Bridge189

    Bridge189 Member

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    I don't think the first set has gone in yet, I'm sure i heard they were trying to lease in one of the SNCF owned full length sets to cover diagrams during the refurb. The internal design looks quite impressive from the artists impressions but I think it's late in the day considering apart from a minor facelift the current interiors have been installed since day 1 of Eurostar.

    NOLs are also due back from SNCF this year so it will be interesting to see what happens in that front.
     
  5. Robbies

    Robbies Established Member

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    In answer to the first question, the Valero trains are due to be doing London - Frankfurt and other routes from London further afield that Brussels and Paris.

    The same London - Frankfurt route will also see DB running Valero trains as well, however I don't think that the have got type approval as yet to be running the full route and the Valero's are still in the stages of being built at present.
     
  6. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    DBs are late, but they are a lot further than the early stages. They'll be ready before the E320s
     
  7. TGV

    TGV Member

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    The first set is in Hellemmes works now. No additional trains have been transferred to cover it.
     
  8. 87015

    87015 Established Member

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    How similar are these to ICE3 sets? I won't be too hopeful on getting between London and anywhere on one in the winter if they are as "good" as the multisystem ICE3 sets which are pants and really do not like leaving German OHL systems very much.
     
  9. Bridge189

    Bridge189 Member

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    Ah so we can probably expect it out of the works in the spring time.

    Any news on what will happen to the NOL sets when/if SNCF return them this year?
     
  10. brianthegiant

    brianthegiant Member

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    Whilst the SNCF lease on the 373 NOLs might be running out. I can't see SNCF returning them in a hurry unless they've ordered new TGVs to do the LGV Nord domestic services?

    My dollar would be on an extension to the SNCF NOL lease, given that E* has new stock on order for it's extra services, which are compatible with German systems.

    Eurostar new routes discussed at length here:
    http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=72647
     
  11. 317666

    317666 Established Member

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    As far as I know, a few of DB's Velaro D units have already entered service on domestic trains within Germany.
     
  12. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    I thought so, but I didn't to say because I wasn't sure :)
     
  13. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    I'd doubt Eurostar would want the NOL sets for any purpose- the reduced capacity wouldn't be good; after all the e320s seat more passengers than the full length TMST don't they?
     
  14. Bridge189

    Bridge189 Member

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    Yes, I think the E320s are planned to have a higher capacity than the full length 373s. I think they're going to have 16 coaches but obviously full length coaches instead of the articulated style that the 373s have.

    Eurostars only use for the NOLs would likley be spare parts/scrapping. I'd be surpirsed if SNCF don't extend the lease on them.
     
  15. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    In theory would it be possible to canablise an NOL set for its intermediate cars to extend the other NOLs to full TMST length, leaving the power cars/end cars/etc for spares and parts?
     
  16. Robbies

    Robbies Established Member

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    Others may have a better idea, but where the TMST are articulated my answer to your question would be no as a set of bogies is shared at each end between coaches or between a coach or end car and I would suspect that there would not be enough bogies to achieve what you suggest.
     
  17. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    You would just take the coach and a bogie out of one NOL set to put into the others.

    Cant see it happening though, there are some full length Eurostars on internal services so it would make more sense to try and get one of them back.
     
  18. Monty

    Monty Established Member

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    Someone will have to correct me if I am wrong but are the NOL sets not owned by the state rather than by Eurostar? If so Eurostar would have very little say on what happens to the sets if and when they are returned to the UK. they could be utilised as a interim solution to cover for 225s if the proposed refurbishment goes ahead if not to boost capacity on the ECML.
     
    Last edited: 24 Jan 2013
  19. TGV

    TGV Member

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    The North of London sets are all still owned by E*
     
  20. Monty

    Monty Established Member

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    I stand corrected! :oops: Though for confirming though.
     
  21. Bridge189

    Bridge189 Member

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    Exactly, if Eurostar wanted more 373s they would most likley try to get one of the domestic full length sets. How did those three sets come to be in domestic use anyways? I know SNCF own them outright and they've been in domestic use for Maas long time, long before the NOLs were. Did they ever work cross channel?

    I can't see the NOLs back on the ECML, not practical enough and they pull too much power. Discussions did take place apparently however.
     
  22. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    I wonder if the NoLs could be used on Bruxelles services, which experience lower demand than Paris services, as a means of allowing higher frequencies to be operated without carting a lot of fresh air around. If they were given dedicated diagrams their different length compared to the 3C sets shouldn't be a problem with the reservations system.

    Continue to diagram 3C sets for the busier times to / from Bruxelles, but use the NoLs at quieter times - the higher frequency would make the service more attractive to businessmen on flexi tickets and this could allow demand to be grown without chewing up capacity from the 3C fleet.
     
  23. Bridge189

    Bridge189 Member

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    That would be a nightmare for the reservations system with the NOLs being four coaches shorter than full lengths. Eurostar quite obviously want a standardised 373 fleet in service which is probably why they haven't put the NOLs on "lighter" trains before. If they wanted more 373s, they would almost certainly buy SNCFs three 18 coach sets as mentioned.
     
  24. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Not necessarily because if they were dedicated to specific diagrams you could easily "block" the missing carriages on the system.

    Until very recently they couldn't have used the NoLs through the tunnel because of the rules on train lengths, so they've never had the opportunity to even think about it.
     
  25. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Wait, are you saying that the tunnel rules on train length would have prevented them being used as originally intended (international services to Scotland/north of England)?

    Are you SURE about this?
     
  26. Bridge189

    Bridge189 Member

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    It's not that simple, in the current set up Eurostar have a standardised fleet of 373s with identical configurations. If you then throw NOLs into the mix it reduced simplicity for thing like set swaps etc.

    Are you sure about the tunnel? GNER used to send the NOLs through the tunnel to le landy if the north pole had no spare 373 heavy maintenance capacity. A collegue has a pic of one flying through Calais in GNER livery.
     
  27. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    1) Yes... which is why you would put them on dedicated diagrams. It would be easy enough to have the reservation system mark every seat in the four missing carriages as "unavailable" on those diagrams. If a NoL isn't available, just run the train with a 3C set.

    2) Those were ecs moves, though. The rules - which were changed only a few months ago - related to passenger carrying services didn't they?
     
  28. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    I'm pretty sure the tunnel rules, even before the changes to allow DB, would have allowed NOL sets to run through in passenger service. The rules would have been written with NOL sets in mind; after all it is what the NOL sets were built to do.
     
  29. Robbies

    Robbies Established Member

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    The NoL sets would have been going through the Channel Tunnel in pairs, not as standalone units, which would have meant that they would be no different in size then to the full size 373 units.

    You see what would have happened is a set from Glasgow/Edingburgh would have joined up with a set from say Manchester at somewhere like Ebbsfleet say joined together and then gone on from there coupled together.

    What DBS are planning though is different in the fact of you will have two IE4 sets joined together leaving Frankfurt, but just over the German Border one set will go to say Brussels or Paris, with the other set continuing on to London. The IE4 set would be one it's own, where as with the NoL sets working coupled, you could have at least one set doing the recovery if the other set failed within the tunnel.

    As Peter has stated above these rules have recently changed, which will allow the DBS IE4's to run through as standalone trains to the UK.
     
  30. starrymarkb

    starrymarkb Established Member

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    Errr No - NoL sets are 2+14 - A double NOL would be 28 coaches long!

    If you mean splitting an NoL set into the two half sets then there is no Cab in the R7 and R8 vehicles
     
  31. Marklund

    Marklund Member

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    What is the status of the long out of use Belgian set?
     
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