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Euston during demolition

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jcevans

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Hi there,

Am looking for information on whether anything has been confirmed vis a vis re-routing WCML trains from Euston whilst the station is being rebuilt? I was thinking the old Waterloo station may be used temporarily for Virgin services, with London Midland moving over to Marlybone.

Any news?

Jack
 
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RichmondCommu

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I would have thought that this is very low down on the list of priorities! I would imagine that Euston will continue to be used during the disruption, as is the case with London Bridge.
 

Kettledrum

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Midland Mainline trains continued to use St Pancras when all the building work was going on their with the undercroft rennovations, the roof rennovations and the new Eurostar platforms.

I'm sure Euston will stay in use for long periods of its re-build too.
 

RichmondCommu

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Midland Mainline trains continued to use St Pancras when all the building work was going on their with the undercroft rennovations, the roof rennovations and the new Eurostar platforms.

I'm sure Euston will stay in use for long periods of its re-build too.

Thats a very good point but don't forget that the WCML is much busier than the MML! That said I agree that Euston will remain open during the rebuild as there is no other realistic alternatives.
 

barrykas

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Am looking for information on whether anything has been confirmed vis a vis re-routing WCML trains from Euston whilst the station is being rebuilt? I was thinking the old Waterloo station may be used temporarily for Virgin services, with London Midland moving over to Marlybone.

Given that the necessary bill hasn't even been introduced to Parliament yet, let alone received Royal Assent, I suspect there are no concrete plans as yet.

I would be extremely surprised if London Midland divert into Marylebone though, given the limited capacity. More likely would be hourly double or triple Voyagers running from Euston onto the Chiltern route at either Neasden or South Ruislip.
 

ainsworth74

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with London Midland moving over to Marlybone.

There is a distinct lack of OHLE at that station so getting the trains in and out would be very interesting! As others have said they're not closing the whole thing down it'll be closed in stages so there will always be some platforms available.
 

Nym

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I can also see Crossrail taking a significant amount of the suburban strain with additional rolling stock ordered, running as far as Milton Keynes and possibly Northampton.

With the approaches being taken down to 2 track a lot of the time this is the main driver during HS2 construction. I would expect Sleepers to be potentially re-directed to Waterloo International, London Overground to Camden Road or St Pancras via Primrose Hill and Fast services into a reduced Euston.
 

RichmondCommu

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I can also see Crossrail taking a significant amount of the suburban strain with additional rolling stock ordered, running as far as Milton Keynes and possibly Northampton.

Given the type of stock that is likely to be running on Crossrail I'm wondering whether Milton Keynes might be pushing the boundaries somewhat.
 

Nym

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Given the type of stock that is likely to be running on Crossrail I'm wondering whether Milton Keynes might be pushing the boundaries somewhat.

Depends on the service pattern and if the interior spec is going to be the same for Milton Keynes as it is for the Maidenhead / Reading stock, but it might not be exactly the same interior, even then, you're looking at under an hour to Milton Keynes Central from Tottenham Court Road, depending on calling pattern etc.

Personally I think the outer limit for Crossrail should be Tring, but with a varied calling pattern, Milton Keynes isn't much further time wise.
 

trc666

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Virgin in to Waterloo probably won't happen unless you were to top and tail Pendolinos (which I doubt are cleared on this route) with class 57s or use Voyagers. London Midland 350s would be cleared, but no longer have third rail shoes.

Sleepers could possibly be shortened and run in to King's Cross or Paddington.
 

RichmondCommu

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Depends on the service pattern and if the interior spec is going to be the same for Milton Keynes as it is for the Maidenhead / Reading stock, but it might not be exactly the same interior, even then, you're looking at under an hour to Milton Keynes Central from Tottenham Court Road, depending on calling pattern etc.

That’s true but given that a fair percentage of the train will be given over to longitudinal seating an hour is quite a distance. However, having said that being further away from London gives customers more choice in terms of seats.
 

krus_aragon

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Given that the necessary bill hasn't even been introduced to Parliament yet, let alone received Royal Assent, I suspect there are no concrete plans as yet.

I for one hope the only concrete plans they are making involve getting rid of it!
 

Bald Rick

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I can also see Crossrail taking a significant amount of the suburban strain with additional rolling stock ordered, running as far as Milton Keynes and possibly Northampton.

With the approaches being taken down to 2 track a lot of the time this is the main driver during HS2 construction. I would expect Sleepers to be potentially re-directed to Waterloo International, London Overground to Camden Road or St Pancras via Primrose Hill and Fast services into a reduced Euston.

When Euston was remodelled in 2000, it was done a third at a time with a 2 track approach. Admittedly the Virgin service was not what it is now, but the only notable changes to the summer 2000 TT were diverting the DC services away and a couple of peak alterations.

There's one problem with Crossrail taking the load; it doesn't link to the WCML and the HS2 plans don't require it to.
 

Nym

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There's one problem with Crossrail taking the load; it doesn't link to the WCML and the HS2 plans don't require it to.

Not now it doesn't, but I can't see it staying that way for a long time, considering the tiny amount of additional work required to slot it into the WCML Slows at Wembley Central. Not to mention that doing this would open access up to a better depot placement (Royal Mail Sidings, Wembley) than Old Oak Common that is currently prime housing development land, it would require some works around Wembley Central and Willesden Junction and proberbly some higher speed turnouts and freight holding lines to take some space off Wembley Alstom Traincare, but none of this isn't do-able for a reasonably low price. (Compared with the magnitude of the rest of Crossrail)

Also, it wouldn't be a requirement of HS2's plans or Crossrail's due to being independantly developed, but now one is rolling, the other can have an external effect that requires a change to the other. Eg. Euston Re-build needing Crossrail (Or Paddington for that matter, it would be the same track)
 

HSTEd

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Do we even have a design for the new Euston yet?

I hope for a giant single span arch using modern materials to do what the Trainshed designers of the Victorian era wanted to do but couldn't.
 

Nym

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Do we even have a design for the new Euston yet?

I hope for a giant single span arch using modern materials to do what the Trainshed designers of the Victorian era wanted to do but couldn't.

Broad engineering layout for surface platforms, yes.

We're currently sat at RIBA B overall and possibly RIBA C for the surface platforms, and either B or C for Crossrail Platforms, so we're nowhere near detailed design for anything yet, not even touched RIBA B for the LUL platforms. No-one has even outlined any works to be carried out for the Northern and Vic Lines, let allone if we'll see a connection to Euston Square.
 

swt_passenger

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There's quite a bit of info about how they would phase the rebuild of Euston in Chapter 5 of the original HS2 Route Engineering Study:

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/HS2_RouteEngineeringStudyChapter5_2010.pdf

Worth a quick read for background - but however the detailed design turns out I'd expect it will definitely involve the massive overbridge across the middle of the platform length that they describe.
 

Class377/5

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Shouldn't the title be rebuilding as its not closing.

As for plans, all's that's been announced is they build the new high speed platforms, shove some into them while rebuilding the middle. Once complete they mover over to the west side last. There's not a massive closure but with shortening the time in platform means less platforms are needed.

Also look at the London Bridge rebuild. By taking out chunks and moving across the station you can let services run around but disruption to services last longer.
 

RobShipway

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I am sure that the last time there was major engineering work at Euston, the Voyagers did most of the routes from Paddington and connected back to the WCML via the Paddington - Greenford line, would they not do that again during holiday periods when there is likely to be less customers supposedly?
 

Class377/5

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I am sure that the last time there was major engineering work at Euston, the Voyagers did most of the routes from Paddington and connected back to the WCML via the Paddington - Greenford line, would they not do that again during holiday periods when there is likely to be less customers supposedly?

Bit pointless as this is going to be going on for years continously not a few weekends.

If there's less customer then less trains can be run. Pervious dive tastings were because there was no route open for use. Rebuilding is completely different as the Voyagers would face same problem of Pendys yet be reduced capacity.
 

Bald Rick

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Reminds me St Pancras was used in the 50s when Euston was being rebuilt,I traveled on the 2200 from Rhyl & arrived at St Pancras about 0400,I think it was
1953/54

When Euston was rebuilt in the 60s, most Manchester, Lancs and Scotland traffic was diverted to St Pancras for years. Birmingham traffic went to Paddington. Postal traffic (of which there was much) went to a temporary depot on the downside about 3 miles out - a Royal Mail local sorting office sits on the site now.

The Voyager 'blockbusters' weren't used for the last Euston remodelling in 2000; they hadn't been delivered by then. Besides they weren't needed. The job involved complete resignalling, all track replaced, all OLE replaced except gantries and some reasonably chunky civils; the longest all line possession was 12 hours.
 

DXMachina

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One possibility to reduce train arrivals at Euston would be a suburban service centred on Watford Junction and Chiltern DMUs linking Watford Jn to Marylebone via a Limited Stop service over the Croxley Rail Link (there are no EMUs that can handle WCML electrification and the 4-rail Met system, and Baker Street couldnt take many, if any, additional Met services)

Longer distance services could use the EWRL route to Paddington but a lot of the load into Euston starts from south of Bletchley and wouldnt benefit
 

Metrailway

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One possibility to reduce train arrivals at Euston would be a suburban service centred on Watford Junction and Chiltern DMUs linking Watford Jn to Marylebone via a Limited Stop service over the Croxley Rail Link (there are no EMUs that can handle WCML electrification and the 4-rail Met system, and Baker Street couldnt take many, if any, additional Met services)

Longer distance services could use the EWRL route to Paddington but a lot of the load into Euston starts from south of Bletchley and wouldnt benefit

Unless you want to remodel Watford South Junction, there is no way you could run Marylebone - Watford Junction services without reversing at Rickmansworth.
 

DXMachina

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Unless you want to remodel Watford South Junction, there is no way you could run Marylebone - Watford Junction services without reversing at Rickmansworth.

Interesting. I understood the alignment allows Met services from Baker St via Moor Park to access Watford Jn directly. Is the problem that only the Rickmansworth lines connect to Marylebone? I wasnt aware there were no crossings between lines north of Harrow on the Hill
 

Crossover

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Surely Euston will be done as per Birmingham New St. New St is being done a bit at a time, so surely Euston will be similar (though New St at the moment seems to be worse than normal New St!)
 

Metrailway

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Interesting. I understood the alignment allows Met services from Baker St via Moor Park to access Watford Jn directly. Is the problem that only the Rickmansworth lines connect to Marylebone? I wasnt aware there were no crossings between lines north of Harrow on the Hill

Only Met services via the local lines are able to access the Watford Branch from Harrow. Thus all Met services to Watford from London run via the locals. All Chiltern services run via the Met Main lines.

Significantly simplified diagram of the Metropolitan between Harrow and Rickmansworth:

8521475257_02bb82dcc0_b.jpg
 
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