Euston overcrowding at TfL/LU entrance caused by new Network Rail departure boards

[All Line Rover]

Is anyone aware of the reasoning behind some bright spark at Network Rail deciding to install an outdoor departure board for National Rail ("NR") services at Euston station right in front of the Euston London Underground ("LU") entrance/exit?

The LU entrance/exit was rerouted from within the Euston (NR) station, to outside the station, a few years ago. I understand that, at the time, Network Rail justified this inconvenient change to the layout on the basis of improved crowd control given the limited space constraints of the Euston (NR) station.

Why, then, has the new outdoor departure board been positioned in such a way as to encourage passengers waiting for NR services to linger in front of the LU entrance/exit? What was once a piazza with a free flow of passengers is now a stationary horde of passengers with obstructive luggage, particularly during instances of disruption within Euston (NR) station which seem to occur every other day of late.

The LU entrance/exit leads immediately to/from three large escalators. It ought to be unobstructed. I am unaware of any other LU station - not even Covent Garden - with a consistently large crowd of stationary people positioned immediately outside the entrance/exit.

Who signed this off? Did TfL - who are typically well regarded for crowd control - have any input?

Here is a recent example:

 

[bramling]

Is anyone aware of the reasoning behind some bright spark at Network Rail deciding to install an outdoor departure board for National Rail ("NR") services at Euston station right in front of the Euston London Underground ("LU") entrance/exit?

The LU entrance/exit was rerouted from within the Euston (NR) station, to outside the station, a few years ago. I understand that, at the time, Network Rail justified this inconvenient change to the layout on the basis of improved crowd control given the limited space constraints of the Euston (NR) station.

Why, then, has the new outdoor departure board been positioned in such a way as to encourage passengers waiting for NR services to linger in front of the LU entrance/exit? What was once a piazza with a free flow of passengers is now a stationary horde of passengers with obstructive luggage, particularly during instances of disruption within Euston (NR) station which seem to occur every other day of late.

The LU entrance/exit leads immediately to/from three large escalators. It ought to be unobstructed. I am unaware of any other LU station - not even Covent Garden - with a consistently large crowd of stationary people positioned immediately outside the entrance/exit.

Who signed this off? Did TfL - who are typically well regarded for crowd control - have any input?

Here is a recent example:

View attachment 154498

It does seem like those responsible for Euston station seem to want to find every possible way of making the station as awful to use as possible. I agree with all the points made.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Is anyone aware of the reasoning behind some bright spark at Network Rail deciding to install an outdoor departure board for National Rail ("NR") services at Euston station right in front of the Euston London Underground ("LU") entrance/exit?

The LU entrance/exit was rerouted from within the Euston (NR) station, to outside the station, a few years ago. I understand that, at the time, Network Rail justified this inconvenient change to the layout on the basis of improved crowd control given the limited space constraints of the Euston (NR) station.

Why, then, has the new outdoor departure board been positioned in such a way as to encourage passengers waiting for NR services to linger in front of the LU entrance/exit? What was once a piazza with a free flow of passengers is now a stationary horde of passengers with obstructive luggage, particularly during instances of disruption within Euston (NR) station which seem to occur every other day of late.

The LU entrance/exit leads immediately to/from three large escalators. It ought to be unobstructed. I am unaware of any other LU station - not even Covent Garden - with a consistently large crowd of stationary people positioned immediately outside the entrance/exit.

Who signed this off? Did TfL - who are typically well regarded for crowd control - have any input?

Here is a recent example:

View attachment 154498

Wasn't it moved because of the advertisement board inside displacing the previous central departure board?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wasn't it moved because of the advertisement board inside displacing the previous central departure board?

A board outside is fundamentally a good idea - probably the only good idea in that stupid scheme. Perhaps it does need relocating slightly though, but I did think it was towards the other end away from the Tube so I'm surprised it's having that effect.

 

[DarloRich]

were these pictures taken on Sunday when there were massive service problems on the WCML? The pictures do not tally with my experience of Euston. That forecourt area is usually busy but not overcrowded.

A board outside is fundamentally a good idea

exactly - it extends the passenger storage space into the forecourt.

 

[Bletchleyite]

were these pictures taken on Sunday when there were massive service problems on the WCML? The pictures do not tally with my experience of Euston. That forecourt area is usually busy but not overcrowded.

Agreed, that's not usually what it's like (bar on a very hot day when most people wait outside). The "double back" to get into the Tube is a pain but I do get why they've done it - to allow the Tube station and mainline station to be closed independently of one another. There could do with being a roller shutter on the inside so you can go straight in when this closure isn't necessary, though. (Yes, I know you can via P8-11, but not everyone knows that).

 

[DelW]

Agreed, that's not usually what it's like (bar on a very hot day when most people wait outside). The "double back" to get into the Tube is a pain but I do get why they've done it - to allow the Tube station and mainline station to be closed independently of one another. There could do with being a roller shutter on the inside so you can go straight in when this closure isn't necessary, though. (Yes, I know you can via P8-11, but not everyone knows that).

You wouldn't even need anything as expensive as a roller shutter. The original direct route (in use for nearly sixty years) could just have been fitted with the sort of pull-across lattice gates used at many tube stations, which would have been adequate to close it off for the occasional periods when the main station is open and the tube closed, or vice versa. They're used at Waterloo every day too, when the direct route to the W&C platform is closed.

There was evidently no consideration of passenger convenience or comfort when it was decided everyone would have to walk round outside every time (often in wind and rain, as it's a gusty spot). Lack of consideration for passengers does seem to be a Euston speciality of course.

 

[AlastairFraser]

A board outside is fundamentally a good idea - probably the only good idea in that stupid scheme. Perhaps it does need relocating slightly though, but I did think it was towards the other end away from the Tube so I'm surprised it's having that effect.

Not particularly good for passengers to be exposed to the unpredictable London weather while waiting for trains.
Let's be honest, all of Euston apart from the platforms needs rebuilding. I'm surprised they haven't proposed a Liverpool St style redevelopment scheme here, as it could massively benefit from it and the real estate potential in the area must be huge.

 

[185]

(0920ish) I hear the boards this morning froze and platform numbers were unable to be displayed.

 

[43066]

Not particularly good for passengers to be exposed to the unpredictable London weather while waiting for trains.
Let's be honest, all of Euston apart from the platforms needs rebuilding. I'm surprised they haven't proposed a Liverpool St style redevelopment scheme here, as it could massively benefit from it and the real estate potential in the area must be huge.

It’s interesting to wonder whether the original Victorian station could have been adapted to cope better with crowding than the monstrosity that replaced it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s interesting to wonder whether the original Victorian station could have been adapted to cope better with crowding than the monstrosity that replaced it.

Definitely not. It was a smaller site, the "Great Hall" was tiny compared to the present one, and the suburban platforms would have been max 4 car because of the Hall being in the way.

 

[jon81uk]

Let's be honest, all of Euston apart from the platforms needs rebuilding. I'm surprised they haven't proposed a Liverpool St style redevelopment scheme here, as it could massively benefit from it and the real estate potential in the area must be huge.

I think the HS2 cancellation by the current government has caused the issue, if the new HS2 Euston was built then it would have assisted the current station by moving a lot of the intercity passengers to the new station and then the current station can get rebuilt to accomodate the new crowds. Now with the uncertainty over whether the new HS2 station will get built, its not possible to plan the future of the existing one.
Basically the current incompetent government have messed it all up.

 

[Recessio]

(0920ish) I hear the boards this morning froze and platform numbers were unable to be displayed.

I got caught up in this. They started working again at around 1230

 

[Revaulx]

Definitely not. It was a smaller site, the "Great Hall" was tiny compared to the present one, and the suburban platforms would have been max 4 car because of the Hall being in the way.

And the reason nearly all photos of the platforms were of the admittedly rather elegant Arrival side was because the high numbered Departure platforms were cramped, utilitarian and as grim as their replacements.

I agree that pretty much every change that it’s endured over the past 55 years has been for the worse though.

 

[AlastairFraser]

It’s interesting to wonder whether the original Victorian station could have been adapted to cope better with crowding than the monstrosity that replaced it.

Adapted, probably not, but rebuilt much better, sure. Perhaps the platforms could have been slightly sunken and extended towards Euston Road below the existing building.
Regardless of what happened then, it needs a total rebuild now.

I think the HS2 cancellation by the current government has caused the issue, if the new HS2 Euston was built then it would have assisted the current station by moving a lot of the intercity passengers to the new station and then the current station can get rebuilt to accomodate the new crowds. Now with the uncertainty over whether the new HS2 station will get built, its not possible to plan the future of the existing one.
Basically the current incompetent government have messed it all up.

That's part of the issue, but the greater part is the failure to invest in a rolling station improvement program regardless of other developments.
This is where I see property development potentially being able to help, in the absence of proper governmental direction.

 

[Magicake]

The LU entrance/exit was rerouted from within the Euston (NR) station, to outside the station, a few years ago. I understand that, at the time, Network Rail justified this inconvenient change to the layout on the basis of improved crowd control given the limited space constraints of the Euston (NR) station.

I thought it was for night tube actually, so the underground could be open when the station was closed

 

[northwichcat]

Not particularly good for passengers to be exposed to the unpredictable London weather while waiting for trains.

Many people choose to sit and eat in that area while waiting for trains, rather than head to the station concourse. Of course on a bad weather day a larger concourse with more seating would be better. However, on a dry day in summer it's a different matter.

 

[bramling]

Many people choose to sit and eat in that area while waiting for trains, rather than head to the station concourse. Of course on a bad weather day a larger concourse with more seating would be better. However, on a dry day in summer it's a different matter.

Not the best place to sit and eat, given that overnight it’s absolutely teaming with rodents!

 

[Kite159]

Not the best place to sit and eat, given that overnight it’s absolutely teaming with rodents!

And during the day it is normally smokers central.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I think the HS2 cancellation by the current government has caused the issue,

its hardly caused the issue that is present today but clearly removes the solution but that was at least FIVE years away something needs to be done now.

if the new HS2 Euston was built then it would have assisted the current station by moving a lot of the intercity passengers to the new station and then the current station can get rebuilt to accomodate the new crowds. Now with the uncertainty over whether the new HS2 station will get built, its not possible to plan the future of the existing one.
Basically the current incompetent government have messed it all up.

 

[Trainbike46]

The only short-term solution is basically to have fewer people waiting on the concourse by letting them board trains earlier - so releasing platforms for LNWR services ~5 minutes after the incoming set has entered the platform (to allow arriving passengers to exit) and to release the platform for every avanti train at least 20 minutes before departure, so that there is (almost) always a Birmingham and a Manchester bound train listed as boarding

Oh, and replace the departure board on the concourse with something better, more like the original

Long term solutions do depend on HS2

 

[AlastairFraser]

Many people choose to sit and eat in that area while waiting for trains, rather than head to the station concourse. Of course on a bad weather day a larger concourse with more seating would be better. However, on a dry day in summer it's a different matter.

People may choose to do that currently, but that's mostly because the current concourse is an embarrassment for a major station.
The facilities should be suitable for all weather conditions that could be reasonably predicted, not just days where the occasional good weather may briefly appear!

 

[Taunton]

The only short-term solution is basically to have fewer people waiting on the concourse by letting them board trains earlier - so releasing platforms for LNWR services ~5 minutes after the incoming set has entered the platform (to allow arriving passengers to exit) and to release the platform for every avanti train at least 20 minutes before departure, so that there is (almost) always a Birmingham and a Manchester bound train listed as boarding

Even that doesn't work any longer with the paranoia of setting the most popular ticket prices for just one departure, regardless of services at near-Metro frequency, and making constant announcements that if you board a different service your money is not only wasted but you will have to buy a new, far higher priced ticket (and completely forgetting how often they are disorganised).

 

[jon81uk]

its hardly caused the issue that is present today but clearly removes the solution but that was at least FIVE years away something needs to be done now.

I meant it caused the issue that no refurbishment is currently in the pipeline for the existing station as there is too much overall uncertainty to be able to plan what to do with the current station.

 

[DerekC]

Why don't railways do something similar to airports. One large departure board, with lots of scrolling screens around the terminal area (including in eating areas) so that people can distribute themselves around the available space better when waiting. Some stations (Reading comes to mind) have that sort of arrangement. As others have said, part of the problem is the late release of platform information. People want to be as near as possible to the likely platform to gallop ahead of the crowd and grab a seat.

 

[Trainbike46]

Even that doesn't work any longer with the paranoia of setting the most popular ticket prices for just one departure, regardless of services at near-Metro frequency, and making constant announcements that if you board a different service your money is not only wasted but you will have to buy a new, far higher priced ticket (and completely forgetting how often they are disorganised).

It wouldn't get everyone out of the concourse, but would reduce the amount of people waiting there, as people for LNWR services, people with flexible avanti tickets and people with advances who arrive no more than ~20 minutes before departure wouldn't be waiting in the concourse. Obviously, there would still be people waiting, like people travelling to less frequently served destinations, or people with advances who arrive early, but that would be less people than currently

 

[Bletchleyite]

It wouldn't get everyone out of the concourse, but would reduce the amount of people waiting there, as people for LNWR services, people with flexible avanti tickets and people with advances who arrive no more than ~20 minutes before departure wouldn't be waiting in the concourse. Obviously, there would still be people waiting, like people travelling to less frequently served destinations, or people with advances who arrive early, but that would be less people than currently

First of all there are distributed departure boards in quite a few locations in Euston (though the one in the tunnel was turned off as it was causing people to stand blocking the way) - for one, there's one in Nando's. Secondly you can have one on your phone wherever you like.

 

[Trainbike46]

First of all there are distributed departure boards in quite a few locations in Euston (though the one in the tunnel was turned off as it was causing people to stand blocking the way) - for one, there's one in Nando's. Secondly you can have one on your phone wherever you like.

How is this at all related to what I said? I wasn't talking about departure boards at all? maybe you quoted the wrong post?

I do agree that it is good that there are departure boards distributed, including outside

 

[modernrail]

I thought it was for night tube actually, so the underground could be open when the station was closed

I hope not, as that could have been achieved rather easily without stopping the direct flow from the station, by having some shutters that come down on the station side at night.

The new arrangement is ridiculous. I can only assume there is a crowd control argument that I am very much missing as to be they have created lots of pointless cross-flows.

 

[Trackman]

I hope not, as that could have been achieved rather easily without stopping the direct flow from the station, by having some shutters that come down on the station side at night.

The new arrangement is ridiculous. I can only assume there is a crowd control argument that I am very much missing as to be they have created lots of pointless cross-flows.

It was for the night tube. The old arrangement was a small door opposite Sainsbury's, not ideal. I suppose they had contingency plans in case of a fire or whatever, but with the new arrangement they can manage tube passenger flows a lot better.