Euston overcrowding

[dosxuk]

Good from an aesthetic point of view, but unless you use the screens to display the departures instead it's not going to make a difference is it? The adverts were a symptom, not the cause of the problems.

As we've seen from the FOI response above, NR believe the passenger flow is better with the new boards than with the old, so I think we can safely rule out a return of the old boards even if it's possible to display departures on the new screen.

I'd have thought it's just a load of entertainment industry-standard video wall panels, which aren't necessarily the most pixel-dense (128x128 in a 0.5m square is common, for example).

There's no such thing as a standard entertainment industry video wall panel. The events world use screen pitches from sub-mm to tens of mm's, entirely dependant on the usage, the bottom end of which I would certainly describe as "pixel-dense".

 

[takno]

I agree the risk of crushing may have been reduced but if that were the case if was incumbent on Network Rail to be transparent about that. It's for them to answer the question, as London Travelwatch say, and for them to assuage any fears among the general public. That's just inherent to the job of being a large public sector organisation.

A little bit of honesty goes a long way. Unfortunately some senior people are clearly allergic to it.

A safety issue was raised by ORR, analysis was performed and action was taken, as evidenced by the FOI request above and the very apparent shouty people. There isn't anything there that Network Rail weren't being transparent about.

The lack of transparency mostly seems to be amongst the media and their favourite talking heads who insisted on phrasing their complaints about comfort as safety concerns.

 

[Starmill]

I hope they put some proper screens in the upstairs area, and create some more seating somewhere, such as in a current retail unit.

 

[All Line Rover]

I hope they put some proper screens in the upstairs area, and create some more seating somewhere, such as in a current retail unit.

Not just "some proper" screens. Any screens that work.

 

[Starmill]

As we've seen from the FOI response above, NR believe the passenger flow is better with the new boards than with the old, so I think we can safely rule out a return of the old boards even if it's possible to display departures on the new screen.

The advertising screen could of course stay as it is and only be used to display general service information such as forthcoming engineering works, contact details, directions, and miscellaneous information. My understanding is that the screen can show that if needed.

 

[All Line Rover]

The lack of transparency mostly seems to be amongst the media and their favourite talking heads who insisted on phrasing their complaints about comfort as safety concerns.

Hello Euston station manager?

 

[Starmill]

Not just "some proper" screens. Any screens that work.

Yes. There may be one inside the pub but that's it. Not much use unless you don't mind paying their crazy prices for a drink. Same goes for the first class lounge. Even then they are small screens in there.

There isn't anything there that Network Rail weren't being transparent about.

Personally I agree with London Travelwatch, and not with this interpretation.

 

[jackdoyle]

3. Creating more concourse space and alleviating pinch-points, which will include more, and upgraded, toilet provision

It will be interesting how they achieve this one. That corner with the toilets would be the logical place to remove retail units for more concourse space, unless more toilet provision can be added in the other direction?

 

[Trackman]

I'd have thought it's just a load of entertainment industry-standard video wall panels, which aren't necessarily the most pixel-dense (128x128 in a 0.5m square is common, for example).
Network Rail may well have gone for some bespoke solution though.

It's fairly likely that the advertising screen itself belongs to the advertising "partner" (eg: Global, ClearChannel et al, not sure which one operates Euston) and Network Rail simply rents them the space. So the screen may have to be removed.

They are owned by JCDecaux.
Was reading about this earlier, plus AWC and WMT need to up their game with passenger control.
Seems common sense has prevailed!

The advertising screen could of course stay as it is and only be used to display general service information such as forthcoming engineering works, contact details, directions, and miscellaneous information. My understanding is that the screen can show that if needed.

No, an improved departure screen(s) is needed. You could put engineering works etc on the new ones and keep the new outsides screens as departures.

 

[DanNCL]

There isn't anything there that Network Rail weren't being transparent about.

Network Rail are publicly in denial about the fact that it’s even an issue. So either they’re completely delusional or they’re not being transparent, it’s one of the two.

 

[Skie]

Wow, the amount of points missed in those slides is immense. Thanks for posting them.

It also completely misses that many people at Euston have backpacks/rucksacks which makes them more awkward to scoot past when they are standing side on, which the new boards force them to do.

The 5 point plan seems devoid of, well, a plan. Not sure I know what being 'invited' to board will entail, perhaps we'll have to RSVP via telegram? Hopefully it means calling trains much sooner so passengers can wait on the platforms.

 

[alf]

And how about a sixth point...bringing the underground entrance back into the warmth of the station as it was for half a century plus.

Forcing thousands of Tube users a day into the cold, wind & wet for no explained reason with their heavy luggage & children was/is brutal or at best careless.
The 1968 Pathe film up forum shows how well planned & people friendly the tube entrance/exit was.

 

[alxndr]

This appears to be the original https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/requ...wing/response/2471291/attach/5/attachment.pdf

A safety issue was raised by ORR, analysis was performed and action was taken, as evidenced by the FOI request above and the very apparent shouty people. There isn't anything there that Network Rail weren't being transparent about.

The lack of transparency mostly seems to be amongst the media and their favourite talking heads who insisted on phrasing their complaints about comfort as safety concerns.

Stretching the "after" image vertically doesn't feel very transparent to me.

In the attached image the before and after are directly cropped from the original. I have not resized them at all. The yellow box overlaying both that I've added is exactly the same size in each and aligned to the borders of the main area. As you can see from the red circled parts, the after image is zoomed in.

The image in the bottom right is the after image shrunk to match the size of the yellow box. Again, the yellow box is exactly the same size. The aspect ratio of the after image was kept the same while resizing. Yet there remains the gap, as circled in red, proving that the image has been stretched vertically.

If I'm being even more cynical, I'd suggest that the before and after images aren't exactly aligned either to help obfuscate this fact. Also notable is the lack of a key.

 

[Harpo]

The lack of transparency mostly seems to be amongst the media and their favourite talking heads who insisted on phrasing their complaints about comfort as safety concerns.

Sorry to be boring and stating it again - If large crowds of people feel unsafe, their behaviours will not necessarily be safe ones.

Euston has a lot of work to do to make its users feel safe.

 

[takno]

Stretching the "after" image vertically doesn't feel very transparent to me.

In the attached image the before and after are directly cropped from the original. I have not resized them at all. The yellow box overlaying both that I've added is exactly the same size in each and aligned to the borders of the main area. As you can see from the red circled parts, the after image is zoomed in.

The image in the bottom right is the after image shrunk to match the size of the yellow box. Again, the yellow box is exactly the same size. The aspect ratio of the after image was kept the same while resizing. Yet there remains the gap, as circled in red, proving that the image has been stretched vertically.

If I'm being even more cynical, I'd suggest that the before and after images aren't exactly aligned either to help obfuscate this fact. Also notable is the lack of a key.

Look at the other edge in both cases. It's not stretched, it's just differently placed in the frame.

 

[Wolfie]

At a political level, why does it need the SoS to issue instructions when she has a Rail Minister and three (four since yesterday) top SGBR bods who seeming were unable to sort the problem before it blew up in their faces?
The Hendy role is particularly unfortunate, as you'd expect him, and NR, to take the lead.

Hendy, given his previous, cannot be part of the solution. Had he issued instructions then his own past arrogance comes straight back into focus...

 

[alxndr]

Look at the other edge in both cases. It's not stretched, it's just differently placed in the frame.

It is both offset and stretched. Look at where the yellow box reaches.

 

[Djgr]

At a political level, why does it need the SoS to issue instructions when she has a Rail Minister and three (four since yesterday) top SGBR bods who seeming were unable to sort the problem before it blew up in their faces?
The Hendy role is particularly unfortunate, as you'd expect him, and NR, to take the lead.

I think it's just a symptom of grown ups running the country after fourteen years.

Boris would promise to do it and nothing would happen. Sunak would go on about not restraining business enterprise. Truss would have ordered more boards!

 

[Clarence Yard]

As someone who has regularly travelled in and out of Euston since 1968, for many years as a commuter too, I don’t find it unsafe at times but it can get very uncomfortable.

The station management has become detached from the train plan and the TOCs. The LTP is bonkers for ped flow and a quick look at RTT will show you what I mean. Ignoring platform 16, there are 4 sets of platforms which should be able to be planned for ped flow, which may mean imposing intervals for consecutive arrivals or departures or, for Avanti departures, allowing some interval between an arrival coming in and then announcing a departure from the same block of four. Obviously 8 to 11 is a much more intensive operation but watch out for three arrivals within 5 or so minutes - if you can’t avoid it, always open the gateline. In fact, should it ever be closed in the peak, such is the ped flow through that gateline?

Turnarounds need to be speeded up and that means really working the cleaning and tanking, with multiple crews, not just one set of cleaning staff. Getting the punters off the main concourse and onto the trains earlier has to be a way out of some of this.

The current departure boards are a mess and a reversion to the previous arrangement would, to me, be a sensible move. Also the removal of a certain fast food burger joint where you have to (multiple) queue across the corridor to get a takeaway. That can slow things up when you don’t need it!

 

[ScottGallagher]

How busy is the ticket office at Euston these days? I haven't used it in some time and when I did only about a quarter of the desks were ever open and there must be about 20

 

[Starmill]

Stretching the "after" image vertically doesn't feel very transparent to me.

In the attached image the before and after are directly cropped from the original. I have not resized them at all. The yellow box overlaying both that I've added is exactly the same size in each and aligned to the borders of the main area. As you can see from the red circled parts, the after image is zoomed in.

The image in the bottom right is the after image shrunk to match the size of the yellow box. Again, the yellow box is exactly the same size. The aspect ratio of the after image was kept the same while resizing. Yet there remains the gap, as circled in red, proving that the image has been stretched vertically.

If I'm being even more cynical, I'd suggest that the before and after images aren't exactly aligned either to help obfuscate this fact. Also notable is the lack of a key.

They should have made the supports for the new screens more obvious also. People can't use that space any more for walking, obviously, they have to go around the supports.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Clearly Haigh isn't daft and knows the same things we all do - that her Rail Minister and Network Rail executives have lost their credibility to deal with this issue.

If they can't sort this basic operational issue doesn't bode well for GBR

 

[Watershed]

How busy is the ticket office at Euston these days? I haven't used it in some time and when I did only about a quarter of the desks were ever open and there must be about 20

Whenever I have been there, there has been a fairly lengthy queue due to the limited number of windows that are open.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Whenever I have been there, there has been a fairly lengthy queue due to the limited number of windows that are open.

That's been my usual experience too, and seems to me like another aspect of Euston station being managed appallingly badly. I mean, with all the wider talk of wanting to close ticket offices because no-one uses them, it seems absurd that in one place where lots of people do actually want to buy tickets from a ticket office, they don't put on enough staff to cope adequately with the demand.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That's been my usual experience too, and seems to me like another aspect of Euston station being managed appallingly badly. I mean, with all the wider talk of wanting to close ticket offices because no-one uses them, it seems absurd that in one place where lots of people do actually want to buy tickets from a ticket office, they don't put on enough staff to cope adequately with the demand.

That's not really Euston specific; I've noticed the same at other large stations... Birmingham New Street yesterday... four out of twelve desks open, queue moderately long. Paddington... usually about 20% of the desks open and the queue back to the door, Waterloo similar.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

That's not really Euston specific; I've noticed the same at other large stations... Birmingham New Street yesterday... four out of twelve desks open, queue moderately long. Paddington... usually about 20% of the desks open and the queue back to the door, Waterloo similar.

Hopefully this will ease now stations/TOCs are allowed to advertise and hire for vacancies. We've added nearly 20 new station staff in the past 2 months with 12 more in the pipeline and we don't staff any major station.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Hopefully this will ease now stations/TOCs are allowed to advertise and hire for vacancies. We've added nearly 20 new station staff in the past 2 months with 12 more in the pipeline and we don't staff any major station.

You mean TOCs were not allowed to advertise for ticket office vacancies? How come?

 

[Kite159]

You mean TOCs were not allowed to advertise for ticket office vacancies? How come?

Most likely the DfT trying to cut costs

 

[John R]

You mean TOCs were not allowed to advertise for ticket office vacancies? How come?

Given the push around a year ago to close them, it's not at all surprising that one way to drive more people to use alternative ways of buying tickets is to under-resource ticket offices.

 

[jon0844]

I do wonder if the advertising screen has become a bit useless because of all the controversy. I'd be reluctant to put my ads on it.

I think the solution will be to use the wall for train departure information (akin to Victoria and others) and supplement with ads on the sides (like King's Cross). Clearly the whole display can show video at a decent frame rate, so I'm sure they can be quite dynamic and keep advertisers happy even if ads aren't going to be quite as in-your-face as they were stretching along the whole concourse.

NR will need ad revenue, and you can still sell ads alongside displays you know people are looking at. I would expect people can stand further away with the new board, and if it doesn't all fit then put arrival information on other screens away from there - so people waiting to meet people off a train will wait somewhere else.