Euston overcrowding

[Washington]

Could the answer be the BR approach of pricing people off the services by for instance adding a Euston rebuilding surcharge on every ticket sold to and from the station?

 

[Wolfie]

Could the answer be the BR approach of pricing people off the services by for instance adding a Euston rebuilding surcharge on every ticket sold to and from the station?

Given that other major stations were rebuilt without that then hell no! Oh, the local MP might have views too.... That's one Sir Kier Starmer....

 

[Horizon22]

Article by the BBC London transport correspondent this morning: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj31v6dgy3xo

It is by no means a new thing but it seems to have become a little bit worse and a little bit more frantic of late. It has certainly been hitting the headlines.
There has always been a bit of a scramble to the trains. But something seems to have changed.
When a departure platform is announced, passengers speed en masse towards the train
I use Euston now and again. I actually like the station, with its marble floors and the open space inside. I might be in a minority.
The huge announcement board that stretched across the station was turned into an advertising screen in January, but this was turned off last week as part of a review ordered by Transport Secretary Louise Haigh.
New announcement boards have been introduced right in the middle of the concourse. They are not easy to see, and seem to condense the crowd into a tight area.
When a train platform is announced, the crowd bullets en masse towards the train and gathers speed down a ramp.

'It is actually just dangerous'​

The problem gets worse when there are delays to trains. If you have mobility issues or small children it would be very difficult.
The rush is such an issue that if you are an Avanti Silver member, the train operator sends you a text with the platform number before the station announcement on the boards - so you can dodge the dash.
When people start running it gets even worse.
The basic problem is too many passengers are trying to get through a small space in a limited time.

 

[thomalex]

"The rush is such an issue that if you are an Avanti Silver member, the train operator sends you a text with the platform number before the station announcement on the boards - so you can dodge the dash."

Yes this should be stopped immediately. There should be no financial incentive to an operator announcing train platforms late, and therefore creating unnessesary rushing, like there clearly is here.

 

[randyrippley]

Today around 5pm there were several Avanti that were only announced eight minutes before departure..... With another announcement that the gate would shut two minutes before departure. So just six minutes between announcement and gates closed.
Result was a series of stampede, along with another announcement : "for safety reasons passengers should not run at any time in the station"
Just mocking their customers.

 

[GodAtum]

Can someone explain why Euston is the only station with this problem? I've never seen this issue at Victoria or London Bridge. Why don't they just annouce trains 20 mins before?

 

[Dougal2345]

The concourse looks very spacious in this 1968 film of it opening (before it was filled with various spurious stuff), and the departure indicator board was massively long to spread people out.

Out of interest, in that film I can see people walking around on the high-level balcony than runs above the departure board and around the whole concourse... was that ever used by the public? I assume it's not accessible any more? What's up there?

 

[Dr Hoo]

"The rush is such an issue that if you are an Avanti Silver member, the train operator sends you a text with the platform number before the station announcement on the boards - so you can dodge the dash."

Yes this should be stopped immediately. There should be no financial incentive to an operator announcing train platforms late, and therefore creating unnessesary rushing, like there clearly is here.

Could you explain Avanti Silver? Are they charging a premium/ membership fee (and keeping it rather than sending it to the Treasury) and then deliberately delaying showing the platform on the screens for ‘non-members’?

 

[Lockwood]

Club Avanti | Train Travel Rewards | Avanti West Coast

Discover Club Avanti, the rewards programme from Avanti West Coast offering perks to Silver, Gold and Platinum members. Join for free to start earning rewards today.

www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk

10% off food and drink onboard
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Early Boarding Notifications at London Euston

 

[JamieL]

"The rush is such an issue that if you are an Avanti Silver member, the train operator sends you a text with the platform number before the station announcement on the boards - so you can dodge the dash."

Yes this should be stopped immediately. There should be no financial incentive to an operator announcing train platforms late, and therefore creating unnessesary rushing, like there clearly is here.

I think this is overstated. The text comes in at almost the same time as the station announcement. I usually use OpenTable Times to get the platform info in advance but, as its often wrong, always wait at the top of the ramp for either the text or screen to show the detail. Invariably they tend to happen at the same time.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I think this is overstated. The text comes in at almost the same time as the station announcement. I usually use OpenTable Times to get the platform info in advance but, as its often wrong, always wait at the top of the ramp for either the text or screen to show the detail. Invariably they tend to happen at the same time.

Even if the Club Avanti early boarding is overstated, that's really not a good look for them to be openly advertising that some passengers can get to board before the main rush starts. And the Club Avanti website does clearly state that on its Tickets and Savings Page:

What’s more, Club Avanti members get to board trains first at Euston, thanks to Early Boarding Notifications.

That text rather seems to discredit any suggestion that the reason passengers are kept waiting is in order to allow trains to be properly prepared (To be fair, although that justification has often been mentioned on this forum, I'm not sure if Avanti themselves have ever claimed that).

 

[JamieL]

The texts are for all First and Standard Premium users as far as I know. Its not something that is paid for, it just happens.

 

[Dr Hoo]

But, to be quite clear, Avanti are still deliberately delaying/ suppressing all platform numbers so that a select segment of their passengers can get an early heads up?
Sounds like a better ‘quick fix’ is available than turning the advertising board off but keeping the ‘boarding lag’.

 

[Lockwood]

Or, if the other poster is right, the priority boarding text isn't actually anything special, so they are advertising a bonus that isn't a bonus and they are really not reading the room.

 

[Andrew1395]

That is something posters here overlook. The problem being the "alongside" ads will earn less revenue ( I expect) than full screen adverts. Hopefully someone in government will make up the balance as less ad revenue means less money to spend on the track.

That will be one of the reasons the screens were put in. It is also why the Mezzanine went in: More revenue

Could they put the train details on the big advert screens and the adverts on the current train screens?

Or have the station sponsored like football stadiums?

Advertising revenue might be significant, but was not sufficient reason to spoil other stations.

station trading revenue from shops might a good reason to move the booking office to a smaller unit.

 

[DarloRich]

Advertising revenue might be significant, but was not sufficient reason to spoil other stations.

times and funding challenges/political directions change.....................

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Could be worse. At least our trains haven't descended to this level of advertising...



(Picture shows a US Brightline train with the windows covered with decals, nicely spoiling passengers' views. Taken from https://www.reddit.com/r/Brightline/comments/16r5whs/brightpink_on_the_inside_visit_orlando_on_the/)

 

[takno]

Could they put the train details on the big advert screens and the adverts on the current train screens?

Or have the station sponsored like football stadiums?

Advertising revenue might be significant, but was not sufficient reason to spoil other stations.

station trading revenue from shops might a good reason to move the booking office to a smaller unit.

If they moved the information back onto the main screen and got rid of it from the new screens they'd be backing out some of the safety changes they made to meet the requirements of the ORR improvement notice, so probably not.

 

[jayah]

Could the answer be the BR approach of pricing people off the services by for instance adding a Euston rebuilding surcharge on every ticket sold to and from the station?

It would be a slightly odd thing to do to build brand new 812 seat trains on LNWR and then price everyone into the 400 seat capacity of a pair of EM10s.

 

[jon0844]

Since the (Tory) government threw out the plan to build a new integrated Euston (HS2 + NR rebuild) last year, what certainty is there that the NR section will be rebuilt separately and on what timescale?
It takes years to develop plans, find funding and get sign-off from all the stakeholders, which has been the problem all along.
Has NR got a separate plan for its assets in its back pocket somewhere?

I am surprised the Government didn't produce a social media post showing HS2 funding being used to pay for the Euston advertising board... alongside the one for fixing London potholes that I swear if you showed some people now, they'd swear blind it was a spoof Photoshop.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Article by the BBC London transport correspondent this morning: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj31v6dgy3xo

Was on the BBC London News today. They called it, politely, the Euston "rush"

BBC One - BBC London, Late News, 08/10/2024

The latest news, sport and weather from London.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[LiftFan]

I do wonder if it isn't helped by the service levels now. 3tph to Manchester isn't quite so bad but 1tph to Liverpool, and 1tph to Glasgow really doesn't seem to cut it anymore. I've travelled at what should be quiet times of the day and in the middle of the week, only to have the carriages almost all full including SP and getting more often, 1st! If one has no seat reservation then it's anyone's game to find an unreserved seat (or pair of seats). Not helped either when a lot of the Glasgow trains are full of people going to Warrington, Wigan and Preston. Whatever happened to the services which were turning at Carlisle and stopping slightly more often?

 

[Lockwood]

I have a daft question.

I haven't used Euston for mainline services in many many years, so this is an outsider question. Not that I've been avoiding it, I just haven't needed it.


What difference do the big advert boards make? If they are showing nothing, or telling me to drive my new Audi* to Disneyland** while drinking Coke*** and phoning with Vodafone**** to renew your Direct Line***** insurance, isn't the effect to me the same? It is something I am not looking at because it does not have the information I need.

Or did the adverts provide enough dynamic content to stand and look at while waiting for the train to be announced, that that was the issue? I can't imagine a huge percentage of people choosing to go to Euston just to watch adverts?



* Other car brands are available
** Other travel destinations are available
*** Other drinks are available
**** Other mobile telephone networks are available
***** Other insurance companies are available

#NotSponsored

 

[Bletchleyite]

What difference do the big advert boards make? If they are showing nothing, or telling me to drive my new Audi* to Disneyland** while drinking Coke*** and phoning with Vodafone**** to renew your Direct Line***** insurance, isn't the effect to me the same? It is something I am not looking at because it does not have the information I need.

I wouldn't really care if it was a load of advertising posters, aside from that the new departure boards aren't fit for purpose (they have too few train panels - they need roughly twice as many - and are hard to look at because they're very bright and pixellated, designed for viewing from far further away, e.g. where the old board was). The same arrangement with better boards (actually an older design) works perfectly well at Paddington, though admittedly the layout is different and encourages people to flow in between the boards in the way Euston doesn't.

A large moving screen is distracting and bathes the whole station in moving light, creating stress. This is, if nothing else, disability discrimination - it will make it very hard or even impossible for some autistic people to use the station. In autism sensory overload is a major factor.

 

[takno]

I have a daft question.

I haven't used Euston for mainline services in many many years, so this is an outsider question. Not that I've been avoiding it, I just haven't needed it.


What difference do the big advert boards make? If they are showing nothing, or telling me to drive my new Audi* to Disneyland** while drinking Coke*** and phoning with Vodafone**** to renew your Direct Line***** insurance, isn't the effect to me the same? It is something I am not looking at because it does not have the information I need.

Or did the adverts provide enough dynamic content to stand and look at while waiting for the train to be announced, that that was the issue? I can't imagine a huge percentage of people choosing to go to Euston just to watch adverts?



* Other car brands are available
** Other travel destinations are available
*** Other drinks are available
**** Other mobile telephone networks are available
***** Other insurance companies are available

#NotSponsored

I think a lot of people just find it extremely oppressive, especially if they are already stuck waiting in a crowded space with no seats, to have massive bright moving images seared into their brains. Something like a news channel might be nearly as irritating to some people.

Even if that isn't something that bothers you personally, a large proportion of the population find it causes significant levels of irritation bordering on physical discomfort.

 

[DJ_K666]

Do Platform tickets work at Euston?

 

[Statto]

I think a lot of people just find it extremely oppressive, especially if they are already stuck waiting in a crowded space with no seats, to have massive bright moving images seared into their brains. Something like a news channel might be nearly as irritating to some people.

Even if that isn't something that bothers you personally, a large proportion of the population find it causes significant levels of irritation bordering on physical discomfort.

The biggest irritation was the ad boards replaced the departure boards, plus it felt like the ad boards were kind of intrusive & in your face when all you wanted was the departure time & platform.

 

[RJ]

Can someone explain why Euston is the only station with this problem? I've never seen this issue at Victoria or London Bridge. Why don't they just annouce trains 20 mins before?

WMT and Avanti choose to operate in a way where they generate a high level of competition for seats, or even a standing space on trains departing from Euston. So people are already on edge. Combine this with frequently advertising the platform at very short notice and people are ready to surge. Boarding a train at Euston could probably feature as a task in The Hunger Games.

At London Bridge and Victoria, the trains are frequent, passengers know there are hundreds of seats on each train which are not blocked by reservations and the trains are advertised well in advance. With the low frequency services, passengers get to the station early knowing they can wait for their train and pick their favourite seat, a luxury not always available at Euston. The Uckfield train for instance, people are waiting on the platform for it when it arrives at London Bridge 15 minutes before it leaves.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do Platform tickets work at Euston?

If you just want access to platforms to spot, just sign in at the station reception and you'll be given a pass, same as any Network Rail major station.

If you want to use one to avoid the Avanti ticket checking, if they even exist I doubt that would be looked kindly upon.

If you want to go onto 8-11 nobody cares as long as you have some sort of ticket e.g. a paper Travelcard.

WMT and Avanti choose to operate in a way where they generate a high level of competition for seats, or even a standing space on trains departing from Euston. So people are already on edge. Combine this with frequently advertising the platform at very short notice and people are ready to surge. Boarding a train at Euston could probably feature as a task in The Hunger Games.

At London Bridge and Victoria, the trains are frequent, passengers know there are hundreds of seats on each train which are not blocked by reservations and the trains are advertised well in advance. With the low frequency services, passengers get to the station early knowing they can wait for their train and pick their favourite seat, a luxury not always available at Euston. The Uckfield train for instance, people are waiting on the platform for it when it arrives at London Bridge 15 minutes before it leaves.

London Bridge doesn't hide platforms (that I recall?)

Victoria does, though, and you do get a bit of a rush for Southern departures which are very similarly operated to the way WMT works and are of similar length, loading and frequency. The rush is less dangerous, though, for two reasons - one, that services to specific destinations use specific areas of the station so people are more spread out, and two, because Victoria is far less cramped than Euston (this is probably similar to the way Paddington has the issue but far less so).

One of the worst aspects of Euston for this is the narrow platform tunnel - removing Boots has helped massively, and I wonder if they'll now remove the WHS bookshop and HEMA on the other side to do the same for P1-3. Removing all the retail in the tunnel (BK, Upper Crust and Camden Food plus the presently unused ex-Starbucks unit) and widening it would probably help further.

 

[DJ_K666]

If you just want access to platforms to spot, just sign in at the station reception and you'll be given a pass, same as any Network Rail major station.

If you want to use one to avoid the Avanti ticket checking, if they even exist I doubt that would be looked kindly upon.

If you want to go onto 8-11 nobody cares as long as you have some sort of ticket e.g. a paper Travelcard.

No I'm not spotting. I do have trouble running though so getting a head start might be handy. Or finding out through RTT what platform the train is from and waiting at the barrier itself. I'm usually looking for the Crewe train (so that'd be around XX47) which usually comes in as an 8 car then splits.