Euston overcrowding

[100andthirty]

One of the principles of the very high frequency service that was introduced with the Pendalinos was three trains an hour to Manchester and Birmingham. The stated intention at the time was that there would always be a Manchester and Birmingham train in the platform open for customers. In principle this meant trains open for 20 minutes before departure. People could drift down to the platform as they arrive and not add to the crowds on the concourse. I still remember that the principle of opening a train for boarding 15 to 20 minutes before departuce was the norm. It's not now and I'm sure this adds to the crowding.

 

[alholmes]

One of the principles of the very high frequency service that was introduced with the Pendalinos was three trains an hour to Manchester and Birmingham. The stated intention at the time was that there would always be a Manchester and Birmingham train in the platform open for customers. In principle this meant trains open for 20 minutes before departure. People could drift down to the platform as they arrive and not add to the crowds on the concourse. I still remember that the principle of opening a train for boarding 15 to 20 minutes before departuce was the norm. It's not now and I'm sure this adds to the crowding.

That was great in principle, but the move towards Advanced tickets valid on specified train only has negated that benefit.

The idea of there always being a train on the platform that’s ready to board is only good for passengers with tickets that allow them to walk up and board any train.

 

[100andthirty]

Even if you've got an advance, having a train open 20 minutes before departure is helpful I would argue.

 

[pedr]

It seems ridiculous that there isn't a rule - or at least a practice honoured except in significant disruption - that a train shouldn't leave/have its doors locked until someone could go from the furthest appropriate waiting place in the station to the front coach of a train while walking just under average adult pace, in the time between the platform being announced and the doors being locked. Maybe it should be longer than that - what does the parent with a six year old do?

Presumably there are reasons why this can't be implemented, but it strikes me as the minimum reasonable way to run a railway. If that means that the train is delayed because it arrived later than planned, plan that into the recovery/contingency plans, but don't make it impossible for someone with a seat reservation to board the coach with their reserved seat without running or trying to push into the train at the rear and add to the congestion, which is will surely slow down boarding anyway.

 

[87015]

Ssh, don't tell anyone, I like having half a coach to myself on a 12-car out of Euston when the rear is full and standing despite the fact that on 350s people can walk through!

Which 12cars are these? Certainly isn’t the sole evening peak one which is F&S in the front coach and down the aisles largely throughout.

 

[uglymonkey]

It seems ridiculous that there isn't a rule - or at least a practice honoured except in significant disruption - that a train shouldn't leave/have its doors locked until someone could go from the furthest appropriate waiting place in the station to the front coach of a train while walking just under average adult pace, in the time between the platform being announced and the doors being locked. Maybe it should be longer than that - what does the parent with a six year old do?

Presumably there are reasons why this can't be implemented, but it strikes me as the minimum reasonable way to run a railway. If that means that the train is delayed because it arrived later than planned, plan that into the recovery/contingency plans, but don't make it impossible for someone with a seat reservation to board the coach with their reserved seat without running or trying to push into the train at the rear and add to the congestion, which is will surely slow down boarding anyway.

I think this is great, but missing the point. The railways ( and the gateline) are run for the benefit of the railways not the passengers. Hence doors locked, shouting staff all trying to prevent a penalty ( financial or operational) rather than checking noone is left behind. Disabled,old children and pushchairs don't count if your culture is to get the train away regardless. Needs a top down rethink of culture. Maybe swop the entire staff from Euston to one of the other mainline stations ( and vice versa ) and see what happens. Its ingrained methods of working.

 

[domcoop7]

Largely because those people have utterly failed to solve a problem that's existed for 20-odd years (each change makes it worse in some way, as someone who's used the station at least weekly, sometimes daily, over the last 25 years or so) and needed a kick to actually do so, despite some of the solutions being obvious?

My first experience of Euston will have been mid to late 1990s (so post-privatisation, but pre Pendolinos and VHF timetable). I absolutely recall it being the exact same procedure as today - hang around in the middle and wait for the train to be announced before running to try to get a seat. I haven't known anything else.

Which is why I am not impressed by the idea "the grown-ups" now apparently being in charge and turning an advertising screen off means the problem is solved.

Indeed Louise Hague herself said that solving the problem "includes a shutdown of the advertising boards from today to review their use...these immediate steps will help to alleviate some of the issues the station has been facing.”

Yet whilst social media has now congratulated the government on solving Euston and moved on to Young Persons' Railcard minimum ticket prices, has anything been made better?

And if they do what the vocal minority want, and simply revert the station to 18 months ago with departures shown on the wall-board, why is that an improvement (when the ORR specifically found the situation at Euston before moving the departure boards required immediate action)?

 

[uglymonkey]

"How do you solve a problem like Euston?" To misquote something!

 

[sprunt]

Yet whilst social media has now congratulated the government on solving Euston and moved on to Young Persons' Railcard minimum ticket prices, has anything been made better?

Yes, there's no longer an oppressive green glow hanging over for you while you wait on the starting blocks.

And if they do what the vocal minority want, and simply revert the station to 18 months ago with departures shown on the wall-board, why is that an improvement (when the ORR specifically found the situation at Euston before moving the departure boards required immediate action)?

Because far from improving the passenger experience, it made it worse. Just because immediate action was (and still is) required, it doesn't mean that whatever action they happened to take was the correct one.

Oh, and what was the timeline between the ORR finding and the board rearrangement/advertising board installation? Those changes aren't something that would happen overnight, and it seems like coincidence as much as anything else that they came vaguely near the ORR finding. Do we know for a fact that they were in response to the finding?

 

[Bletchleyite]

My first experience of Euston will have been mid to late 1990s (so post-privatisation, but pre Pendolinos and VHF timetable). I absolutely recall it being the exact same procedure as today - hang around in the middle and wait for the train to be announced before running to try to get a seat. I haven't known anything else.

It's certainly long enough a thing for Ben Elton to have done a 1990s sketch about it ("double seat, double seat, gotta get a double seat") but it's much worse now than it was way back when. I wonder if part of that is simply that the trains are longer and carry more passengers than they did in the 1990s, and in the same time the south WCML commuter services have gone from a 2tph 4-car backwater not dissimilar to Chiltern's quiet Aylesbury route to a major commuter service more like typically found into Waterloo and Victoria with the budget long distance options laid on top?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Just arrived at Euston at 11:30 am to find the 11:43 to Liverpool and the 11:46 to Crewe were already showing their platforms and boarding. Is this a slight improvement on before?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Just arrived at Euston at 11:30 am to find the 11:43 to Liverpool and the 11:46 to Crewe were already showing their platforms and boarding. Is this a slight improvement on before?

The xx:46 is sometimes showing as ready around that time, the xx:43 sometimes isn't. I find that an average of 10 minutes prior during the quieter hours with everything arriving on time is normal. Maybe they are giving more time where possible

 

[Trackman]

Just arrived at Euston at 11:30 am to find the 11:43 to Liverpool and the 11:46 to Crewe were already showing their platforms and boarding. Is this a slight improvement on before?

This can be quite normal when things are going to plan.

It's certainly long enough a thing for Ben Elton to have done a 1990s sketch about it ("double seat, double seat, gotta get a double seat") but it's much worse now than it was way back when. I wonder if part of that is simply that the trains are longer and carry more passengers than they did in the 1990s, and in the same time the south WCML commuter services have gone from a 2tph 4-car backwater not dissimilar to Chiltern's quiet Aylesbury route to a major commuter service more like typically found into Waterloo and Victoria with the budget long distance options laid on top?

Re: Ben Elton; Is this the same sketch that mentions the 'toilet engaged' sign?

 

[Tezza1978]

It's certainly long enough a thing for Ben Elton to have done a 1990s sketch about it ("double seat, double seat, gotta get a double seat") but it's much worse now than it was way back when.

Aaaah those were the days I remember that sketch! I still remember the days as a 19 year old student where I didn't really care about my seat reservation from EUS- MAN as I wanted to sit in the smoking carriage anyway ...of the old Virgin trains stock pre Pendolino.....

(i packed in smoking in the January of the year of the pub ban coming in.....so many, many years ago!)

 

[Statto]

The xx:46 is sometimes showing as ready around that time, the xx:43 sometimes isn't. I find that an average of 10 minutes prior during the quieter hours with everything arriving on time is normal. Maybe they are giving more time where possible

The xx46 the Crewe is LNWR & unlike AWC, LNWR trains aren't locked so passengers can board the xx46 Crewe once all the passengers have left the train from the incoming service.

Back in the summer, i caught the LNWR Liverpool - Euston changing at Crewe, i returned on the 14.46 from Euston, i arrived at Euston around 14.30 but was able to go to the platform & board the train straight away as it wasn't locked.

 

[Kite159]

Not having that large advertising screen has made an improvement to the lighting levels within the main concourse, although I didn't hang around as the Glasgow train was boarding when I arrived and I wanted a good unreserved seat

 

[Wolfie]

The xx46 the Crewe is LNWR & unlike AWC, LNWR trains aren't locked so passengers can board the xx46 Crewe once all the passengers have left the train from the incoming service.

Back in the summer, i caught the LNWR Liverpool - Euston changing at Crewe, i returned on the 14.46 from Euston, i arrived at Euston around 14.30 but was able to go to the platform & board the train straight away as it wasn't locked.

Having stood on platforms, which had been announced, at Euston on many occasions waiting to board a shutdown LNWR train with no crew present that certainly isn't always the case.

 

[plugwash]

I passed through Euston this evening and it was a pleasant experience, at least as pleasant as passing through a major interchange can be. I arrived about 10-15 minuites before the train to Manchester was due and the platform was already open, as was the train. No shouty staff, crowds but not unreasonable ones. There was a little bit of congestion round the (manual) ticket check but nothing major.

 

[MarkWi72]

Always use Traksy at Euston. Did this in July getting a Wolverhampton train. Knew the op number and saw it at the platform. Sauntered down 20 mins before platform was announced and got my seat ( not the Eltonesque double one.).

 

[themiller]

A couple of thoughts came to me regarding the concourse at Euston are:
1 The station is too small for its current use.
2 The DC lines should have been at the P1 end of the station to keep the mainline platforms together.
3 Trains should be open to passengers as soon as they’re prepared - at least 15 minutes before departure. I realise that this would require more platforms and more train sets but penny pinching is one of the causes of the railway’s problems.
4 There is insufficient ’flex’ in the system with trains being pushed hard to tight timetables with little opportunity for recovery from delays which is managed by the stepping-up procedure causing the current uncertainty of which train is going to operate a particular service until the last few minutes.
5 All passengers have to walk from the end of the train in order to board. If the concourse was central to the trains, passengers would then have less distance to walk and the throng would be half the size.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

There has definitely been a change regarding platform announcements ahead of schedule, seems all trains are now announced 15-20 minutes prior to departure (unless late arrival prevents it).

Concourse has seemed more sedate too, will see if that remains the case.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There has definitely been a change regarding platform announcements ahead of schedule, seems all trains are now announced 15-20 minutes prior to departure (unless late arrival prevents it).

Concourse has seemed more sedate too, will see if that remains the case.

I might brave a trip to London next week to see. Last Saturday evening they definitely weren't doing that, though admittedly the train I was using was one of the small number of evening 12-car services formed of two incoming trains that join at Euston, and there are good reasons for suppressing platforms on those specific few to avoid people getting in the way of the coupling up operation.

 

[jackdoyle]

I've noticed in the last week or two that I haven't seen before that:
1) There doesn't seem to be the 'countdown' on platform boards anymore, instead just saying departing on time or equivalent.
2) Some services will show a 'boarding at approx. xx' time on the main board, presumably to avoid panic.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good to see the stupid countdown (which is wrong for WMT services anyway) removed. The latter (approximate boarding time) has been there for a while, indeed I think they used to show it on the old board sometimes.

 

[miami]

Did someone thing the countdown would make people go "don't worry, don't need to run, we've got 6 minutes 14 seconds", rather than "oh crap we'd better leg it we've only got 6 minutes 14 seconds"

 

[Benjwri]

Did someone thing the countdown would make people go "don't worry, don't need to run, we've got 6 minutes 14 seconds", rather than "oh crap we'd better leg it we've only got 6 minutes 14 seconds"

I believe the intention was probably to stop the people who aim to make it to the platform about 5 seconds before departure and complain the gate is closed.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I believe the intention was probably to stop the people who aim to make it to the platform about 5 seconds before departure and complain the gate is closed.

Which can be quite a few when dispatch is started 1 minute prior to departure

 

[Cletus]

Euston update

https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1850949207714087411

 

[Bletchleyite]

Almost. Just stop suppressing WMT platforms. There is absolutely no need to wait until the preceding service has departed nor for the unit to even arrive. The only ones where there is an argument for suppression are the tiny number of ones that still split/join at Euston, which I think are now single figures a week (I know there's one on a Saturday evening).

 

[Benjwri]

There is absolutely no need to wait until the preceding service has departed nor for the unit to even arrive

They aren't waiting for the unit to arrive. They display it when the last service leaves, which is pretty sensible given how people act these days. If you advertised a train at a terminus on a platform before the train before left, I can guarantee you'd end up with a significant amount of people on that train before.