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Euston to Windermere ticket route validity

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Peter Mugridge

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I am asking this on behalf of my parents who are going to Windermere right in the middle of the Avanti emergency timetable period.

They already have "any permitted" tickets but no reservations; in the event of their being unable to get a reservation on Avanti ( because there will be so few trains to squeeze all the passengers on and they are likely to book out within minutes of being released ) will these tickets be valid to go as follows?

Euston to Crewe on the fast LNWR service.
The Northern service from Crewe to Manchester Airport.
The Northern service from Manchester Airport to Windermere.

The first part is definitely valid, but what of the connection via Airport? Would they need to obtain an excess to do that?
 
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Bletchleyite

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They can use Avanti without reservations if they want. Judging by past experience there'll be plenty of space, and there are no planned cuts to the service north of Preston.

However if they do want to do the above (and it's not an utterly terrible idea as it avoids the Platform 14 scrum), NRE seems to allow it on a through fare so it seems to be valid.
 

Watershed

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I am asking this on behalf of my parents who are going to Windermere right in the middle of the Avanti emergency timetable period.

They already have "any permitted" tickets but no reservations; in the event of their being unable to get a reservation on Avanti ( because there will be so few trains to squeeze all the passengers on and they are likely to book out within minutes of being released ) will these tickets be valid to go as follows?

Euston to Crewe on the fast LNWR service.
The Northern service from Crewe to Manchester Airport.
The Northern service from Manchester Airport to Windermere.

The first part is definitely valid, but what of the connection via Airport? Would they need to obtain an excess to do that?
Yes, that would be fine. Generally tickets along the WCML are valid on all "branches". It depends on when exactly they're travelling, but they may find it faster to take a TfW service from Crewe to Manchester Piccadilly and to change there for the Windermere service.
 

jfollows

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If it helps, the permitted routes London-Windermere are shown in the maps listed in the extract below (the routeing guide gives routes to Oxenholme Lake District which are the ones to use for Windermere also; the maps are at https://data.atoc.org/routeing-maps):
1660149505930.png
Map EX pretty much gives you the route you describe via Manchester Airport anyway; you can find lots of other routes allowed as "any permitted" also.
I sometimes travel Wilmslow-Manchester Airport to change there for trains beyond Manchester Piccadilly to avoid the mess of platform 14 at Piccadilly, as Bletchleyite says. It depends on the connection time, but if you're not in a hurry it's a simpler change with less hassle.
 

Kite159

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A good idea to change at Manchester Airport, avoids the mess at platform 14 and gives you the chance to bag a decent seat before the Wigan massive board at Manchester.
 

Bletchleyite

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A good idea to change at Manchester Airport, avoids the mess at platform 14 and gives you the chance to bag a decent seat before the Wigan massive board at Manchester.

I've often meant to do that then not left enough time!

The change to 5/6 car formations when it moves to via Chorley can't come soon enough.
 

Peter Mugridge

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They can use Avanti without reservations if they want. Judging by past experience there'll be plenty of space, and there are no planned cuts to the service north of Preston.

Yes, that would be fine. Generally tickets along the WCML are valid on all "branches". It depends on when exactly they're travelling, but they may find it faster to take a TfW service from Crewe to Manchester Piccadilly and to change there for the Windermere service.

A good idea to change at Manchester Airport, avoids the mess at platform 14 and gives you the chance to bag a decent seat before the Wigan massive board at Manchester.

Thank you, and to answer the specific points:

Bletchleyite: They're mid 80s, so if they can't get a seat reservation it wouldn't be ideal for them to try without one.

Watershed: The idea of the Northern service is it gives a decent connection time, plus it starts from Crewe, and...

Kite159: ...that's exactly why I suggested changing at Airport. If they go to Piccadilly on the TfW they'd have to get all the way over to the island platform, whereas there's a decent connection margin at Airport - and again, the service starts from there.
 

plugwash

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Map EX pretty much gives you the route you describe via Manchester Airport anyway
Specifically it gives routes via Crewe, Wilmslow Group, Manchester Group and then various routes back to the WCML.

It doesn't explitly mention Manchester airport, but i'm pretty sure that is just because Manchester airport isn't a routing point.
 

Watershed

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Specifically it gives routes via Crewe, Wilmslow Group, Manchester Group and then various routes back to the WCML.

It doesn't explitly mention Manchester airport, but i'm pretty sure that is just because Manchester airport isn't a routing point.
That's correct, Manchester Airport isn't a Routeing Point and so both the route via there, and avoiding it, are permitted. EX allows pretty much any route that involves the WCML and its branches.
 

jfollows

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The one thing to be wary of with doing this change at Manchester Airport is when the inbound train runs late, in which case it's often terminated short in - say - Manchester.
Now, how often this happens I'm not sure, but it's not never.
If you are able to work out the inbound train and then see how it's doing on Realtime Trains that'd be useful - it's what I do.
When it's not disrupted, it's quite a simple and civilised change at Manchester Airport - there's time for the train to arrive, everyone gets off, and then you can get on and find a seat and make yourself comfortable, and then it's about time to leave.
 
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