Euston Underground Station - overcrowding and future plans

[Tezza1978]

Am a very regular user of Euston station - and by default the connecting underground station - and over the last few weeks the congestion/crowding has been even more apparent to me. Usually I get in to Euston late afternoon around 3pm-3.30pm and travel back North post 8pm. Yesterday (Thurs) was travelling to Euston in "peak Northern line" period around 5pm/5.15pm.

Essentially its bordering on downright dangerous. A shouty bloke was doing a good job in telling departing/entering passengers to keep to "their side" but the backlogs at the barriers were ridiculous bordering on dangerous due to volumes of people/pushy people,

Does anyone have insight as to the plan to expand/extend EUS underground? And the govt's view/funding for it? The Sunak decision to scrap the EUS-Euston Square tunnel seems even more bananas given passenger volumes. HS2 station progress/funding clearly a factor but the underground is overloaded NOW and will only get worse!!

 

[wildcard]

I arrive into Euston on WMR about the same sort of time 5pm to 6pm once or twice a week. The problem is compounded by a fair few travellers using paper tickets & travelcards unable to get the gate to accept the ticket - the machine doesn't grab the ticket or the slot appears jammed. They then have to step back from the gate and find another - causing more delay. There is a similar issue with the volume of people leaving TfL services - the queue for the exit gates backs up to the top of the escalators . Staff open the side gate for paper ticket inspection to help relieve the congestion. Sadly there is no easy solution - only expensive ones. In extremis I guess they could close the subway and stairs and queue incoming passengers on the concourse outside the station.

 

[cle]

Getting the SSL station connected should be an absolute priority now Euston HS2 has been reconfirmed. Rename it to Euston. Direct lots of people there where you will have 20-30tph in each direction to help dispersal.

And kill off one stop changes at Kings Cross via northern / Vic to the same lines!

That old taxi dungeon is likely in the way but isn’t necessary really. Could be moved and shrunk.

 

[Bald Rick]

In my opinion we are not too far away from the situation as at Victoria pre rebuild, where entrance to the tube station is restricted at times during peak hours.

Whilst the HS2 tunnels to Euston have been confirmed, the station rebuild has not, yet. Neither has any rebuild of the tube station(s) that go with it.

 

[sad1e]

If services from Paddington could be diverted into Euston for a Paddington blockade couldn't the reverse be done for Euston While a rebuild happens.

What i would do would transfer over all the Birmingham services out of Euston to Marylebone letting Chiltern use whatever diesel stock is available for that ( stored 180s , Emr 222's , 68's+mk5's)

Operate Most of the Paddington services to Manchester/Liverpool with 805s,807s and 390s with locos to drag them over the unelectrified EWR like what used to be done to the Holyhead services.

Operate a low 1tp2h service to Scotland out of Paddington , Divert the rest of the Scotland services onto the Ecml where they can be.

Do this for as little time as possible , only as long as you need to erect temporary platforms at Euston (think broad street style barebones temporary platforms) and put M'chester and Liverpool services into those as soon as possible as to keep Paddington as unaffected as possible.

As for the Watford DC lines 2 more platforms should be built on the existing railway land on the bridge for NLL services to use as through platforms and the current platforms would be used as Watford DC terminating platforms.

 

[Bald Rick]

If services from Paddington could be diverted into Euston for a Paddington blockade couldn't the reverse be done for Euston While a rebuild happens.

That would be unnecessary.

St Pancras, Kings Cross, London Bridge and Euston (2000 remodelling) were all rebuilt in stages revently without the need to make use of major diversions.

 

[Magdalia]

St Pancras, Kings Cross, London Bridge and Euston (2000 remodelling) were all rebuilt in stages revently without the need to make use of major diversions.

Thameslink was diverted via Herne Hill during the London Bridge rebuild.

Thameslink was also severed to build the box for the St Pancras Low Level platforms, as was recently discussed elsewhere.

 

[Bald Rick]

Thameslink was diverted via Herne Hill during the London Bridge rebuild.

Thameslink was also severed to build the box for the St Pancras Low Level platforms, as was recently discussed elsewhere.

Yes I know all to well. But they weren’t major diversions.

In the former case, it was only the Thameslink services (and only off peak, as with a couple of exceptions they didn’t run through London Bridge at peak time anyway), and not any of the other 1500 or so Southeastern and Southern trains a day that use London Bridge.

In the latter, almost all Thameslink trains still used St Pancras or Kings Cross Thameslink; they were amended yes, but not diverted away from the station being rebuilt.

 

[sad1e]

That would be unnecessary.

St Pancras, Kings Cross, London Bridge and Euston (2000 remodelling) were all rebuilt in stages revently without the need to make use of major diversions.

Why would that be unnecessary , the only services that can really be done without are the Scotland services considering the Ecml can just take those up.

There would still be a large demand for London-Liverpool/Manchester services , what other terminus would they be easily routed into , or would it be more operationally convenient just using Watford junction as an ad-hoc terminus

There would be a few days you would have to close the whole of Euston at minimum due to the structural nature of the building foundations over the platforms. it would not be feasible to demolish it in sections you would have to take off the whole roof before opening temporary platforms.

 

[Jimini]

In the latter, almost all Thameslink trains still used St Pancras or Kings Cross Thameslink; they were amended yes, but not diverted away from the station being rebuilt.

Back in 2004(?) I used that route daily for work. I must have put on at least a stone due to the walk between the two taking me past the McDonald's there at the foot of York Way. Double sausage and egg McMuffin will do that to a belly

 

[jon81uk]

Essentially its bordering on downright dangerous. A shouty bloke was doing a good job in telling departing/entering passengers to keep to "their side" but the backlogs at the barriers were ridiculous bordering on dangerous due to volumes of people/pushy people

Its better to have a crowd at the barriers and not on the platform. Many Underground stations will reduce the number of entry barriers to slow down the number of people accessing the platforms if the platforms are overcrowded.

 

[AndrewE]

Getting the SSL station connected should be an absolute priority now Euston HS2 has been reconfirmed. Rename it to Euston. Direct lots of people there where you will have 20-30tph in each direction to help dispersal.

And kill off one stop changes at Kings Cross via northern / Vic to the same lines!

That old taxi dungeon is likely in the way but isn’t necessary really. Could be moved and shrunk.

SSL station?

 

[sprunt]

SSL station?

Euston Square underground.

 

[Tezza1978]

Its better to have a crowd at the barriers and not on the platform. Many Underground stations will reduce the number of entry barriers to slow down the number of people accessing the platforms if the platforms are overcrowded.

Yes of course - I understand that's vital for safety reasons. However its clear that the current underground station is woefully ill equipped for the numbers using it at peak times and clearly needs expansion/a full refurb/ideally underground connection to Euston Square with a travellator etc etc

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes of course - I understand that's vital for safety reasons. However its clear that the current underground station is woefully ill equipped for the numbers using it at peak times and clearly needs expansion/a full refurb/ideally underground connection to Euston Square with a travellator etc etc

There's no need for a travelator to Euston Square, the end of the platforms runs to pretty much where the two portico things are with the bar in. The entrance is just at the wrong end.

 

[AndrewE]

There's no need for a travelator to Euston Square, the end of the platforms runs to pretty much where the two portico things are with the bar in. The entrance is just at the wrong end.

That should be easy to fix then...

 

[Bald Rick]

That should be easy to fix then...

“easy“ in the context of a billion or so!

 

[AndrewE]

“easy“ in the context of a billion or so!

yes, but would it really be that much? Presumably not particularly complicated (unless the scheme gets embroidered with extra entrances and tunnels linking it into Euston itself... Would that really be necessary?)

 

[Bald Rick]

yes, but would it really be that much? Presumably not particularly complicated (unless the scheme gets embroidered with extra entrances and tunnels linking it into Euston itself... Would that really be necessary?)

Yes, very complicated, because - obviously - you need tunnels linking it with Euston. The Northern line is also a bit in the way, olus basements of buidings either side if Euston Road. Go and have a look at all the preliminary works, including a very big hole next to Melton St.

For comparison, the Victoria station new entrance and upgrade was £700m 10 years ago.

 

[AndrewE]

Yes, very complicated, because - obviously - you need tunnels linking it with Euston. The Northern line is also a bit in the way, olus basements of buidings either side if Euston Road. Go and have a look at all the preliminary works, including a very big hole next to Melton St.

For comparison, the Victoria station new entrance and upgrade was £700m 10 years ago.

Why? If we can walk to Euston Square now surely people can walk out of the front of Euston, across the piazza (or whatever it is called) and go down a closer entrance into the Underground?
But of course this is London, and no basic provision can be tolerated, everything has to be gold-plated.

 

[bramling]

Why? If we can walk to Euston Square now surely people can walk out of the front of Euston, across the piazza (or whatever it is called) and go down a closer entrance into the Underground?
But of course this is London, and no basic provision can be tolerated, everything has to be gold-plated.

Just to provide an exit from Euston Square at that end there would be a need to provide access to the inner rail side, so immediately some form of bridge across Euston Road is going to be required. Just doing that and providing some stairwells is likely to involve a significant amount of disruption including having to deal with numerous services which almost certainly occupy the space required. Plus there’s certainly buildings in that area where the basements encroach into the road line.

I suspect that just to do something fairly basic is simply not going to be cheap.

Euston Square certainly isn’t gold-plated at the moment. It’s a horrible station to use, and seems to have become increasingly busy over recent years, such that the typical experience using it is almost as unpleasant as Euston itself.

 

[Bald Rick]

Why? If we can walk to Euston Square now surely people can walk out of the front of Euston, across the piazza (or whatever it is called) and go down a closer entrance into the Underground?
But of course this is London, and no basic provision can be tolerated, everything has to be gold-plated.

Because of the number of people epected to use it. You don’t just provide a door on to the platform, you have to accommodate a gateline that can accommodate the passengers forecast in at least 30 years. I‘m sure you’ll agree you wouldn’t want to dig up half the Euston Road now only to dig it up again a few years later to expand it.

The there‘s the issue with interchange with the Northern and Victoria; make it easier and people will do it. That has to be provided for.

Finally, the design is already done and prelim works started. Do something different and you are spending money again.

(edited for multiple typos, sorry)

 

[Recessio]

SSL station?

Sub Surface Lines = the Metropolitan, Circle, and Hammersmith & City lines (and District line, although that doesn't serve Euston Square)

 

[wildcard]

The key thing is to expand the Euston LUL booking hall , double the number of gates and add at least one more up and down escalator - it only makes sense to do this with a complete rebuild including the link to the eastern end of Euston Square along with the HS2 station. Would there be any change from a billion ? I can't imagine anyone would use Euston LUL <> Euston Square as a tube interchange - Kings Cross would be far more convenient. My experience is the major and quite alarming congestion is the result of peak time commuters on their way home to the northern home counties meeting large numbers of people coming into London on national rail services for a nightout/weekend away. The link to Euston Square by itself won't fix that. I haven't experienced the morning peak - is that any better ?

 

[Mawkie]

I can't imagine anyone would use Euston LUL <> Euston Square as a tube interchange...

LU had a trial of anonymised phone connections to station WiFi signals a few years ago that threw up some very unusual travel patterns! Maybe current data is updated and available somewhere?

Ianvisits wrote about it at the time.

 

[Mikey C]

Kings Cross St Pancras was expanded by building a new ticket hall, rather than just expanding the existing one. A new ticket hall next to the Euston Road, and connecting to Euston Square would spread the load better, and be handy for the many people using Euston Underground who aren't going to the mainline station.

 

[Recessio]

Kings Cross St Pancras was expanded by building a new ticket hall, rather than just expanding the existing one. A new ticket hall next to the Euston Road, and connecting to Euston Square would spread the load better, and be handy for the many people using Euston Underground who aren't going to the mainline station.

If memory serves, there's been publicised plans and mockups to add another entrance to Euston Square at the other end of the platforms. It would be in Gordon Street, between the Euston Road and Gower Place/Endsleigh Gardens, (between the Wellcome Building and Drayton House), severing the connection from Gordon Street to the Euston Road

It would make sense for that to then "knock through" to Euston if ever built, or at least add passive provision, as it would already most of the way there.