• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Evesham-Worcester redoubling

Status
Not open for further replies.

TheWalrus

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2008
Messages
1,983
Location
UK
Hi all

Recently I've been working on a timetable for the cotswolds line once the redoubling is complete. Obviously it is much better with Charlbury-Evesham doubled throughout, however there are still many pathing problems north of evesham. I believe if just Evesham-Norton jn was doubled, pathing would be a lot easier and Worcester-London journey times could be reduced by at least 10 minutes. So it is better but a crucial section seems to have been missed out of the scheme.

Is anyone supportive of this idea? Could anyone give an estimate of how much it would cost to double Evesham-Norton jn and reopen the other platform at Pershore?

Thanks and hope you like this idea.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,835
It wasn't part of the scheme as it wasn't deemed to be required. There was a thread before where we discussed it and you can work an improved timetable with what has been done.
 

Class172

Established Member
Associate Staff
Quizmaster
Joined
20 Mar 2011
Messages
3,770
Location
West Country
There isn't an urgent need to redouble this bit. As The Planner has said, the current scheme is satisfactory for the current proposals for 1tph. In the future when passenger numbers increase and if Worcester Parkway gets built, then it may need redoubling.

However, I do hope it happens because as you all know I'm very pro-worcestershire improvements. :)
 

dzug2

Member
Joined
5 Feb 2011
Messages
867
Not sure I understand 'just Evesham - Norton Junction' - I thought Norton Junction to Worcester was double track already?
 

Class172

Established Member
Associate Staff
Quizmaster
Joined
20 Mar 2011
Messages
3,770
Location
West Country
Not sure I understand 'just Evesham - Norton Junction' - I thought Norton Junction to Worcester was double track already?
It is, but I think The Walrus is just generalising the area.
 

TheWalrus

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2008
Messages
1,983
Location
UK
Norton-worcester is double, evesham-norton single.

The planner could you estimate the costs?
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,835
No, as im not an engineer and have no idea of the requirements for signalling, civils etc... it is highly unlikely to ever happen as I can't see a requirement for more than 1tph.
 

bnm

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,996
The planner could you estimate the costs?

Well. With any large publicly funded capital expenditure the usual method for estimating the cost is to think of a number then double it!!! :p;):D
 

TheWalrus

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2008
Messages
1,983
Location
UK
It wouldnt be more than 1tph off peak.

So if I say1, it will cost £2?! :D
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Axminster cost £20m if thats any indicator. And whats the argument for Swindon-Kemble? I can see less benefits to that than Evesham-Norton jn.
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,835
Swindon Kemble is a Severn Tunnel diversion route, the benefits are much larger.
 

JEPB

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2009
Messages
29
What NR said to us locally was that the two sections of single track would be left because of the impact on the wider network of significant engineering work at either end, with a weak business case to justify it. It was said that the Charlbury-Wolvercot Junction section would be considered again when the next major work is done in the Oxford area. Chances are though, that they may just create short loop to accommodate a train clear of the junction, for operational flexibility. The problem is that there are three stations (Combe, Finstock, Hanborough) some with minimal service and negligible patronage which would require a second platform.

At the Worcester end the business case is weaker still. We were promised that it would be revisited when the Worcester area is resignalled (!). I can see the benefit of a few hundred yards of double track extending eastwards from Norton Junction to gain some operational flexibility and make passive provision for a two platform Parkway station over the Bristol/Birmingham route.

What might change the balance is if the route becomes useful for freight diversions and special workings. There has already been one "freight" operation in recent weeks, the first for many, many years apart from engeering trains.
 

Class172

Established Member
Associate Staff
Quizmaster
Joined
20 Mar 2011
Messages
3,770
Location
West Country
Swindon Kemble is a Severn Tunnel diversion route, the benefits are much larger
That sure is one long diversion.

Back to the original topic. If the stretch between Honeybourne and Stratford was reinstated, I've heard that there may be a new service or extended service that goes Stratford-Evesham-Worcester. Surely then you would need to double it?
 

TheWalrus

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2008
Messages
1,983
Location
UK
Swindon Kemble is a Severn Tunnel diversion route, the benefits are much larger.

What for a handful of weekends a year? Evesham-Norton jn would improve many services daily (est. 16), not just as and when a section of track is closed. And are there any issues anyway when Swansea-Padd trains are diverted via Gloucester?
 

JEPB

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2009
Messages
29
That is very speculative!

NR have mentioned the possibility of reopening that line for freight, but there are many issues:

Route through Cheltenham (bridges, cyclepaths and development)
Ownership and use of trackbed by Gloucestershire & Warwickshire Railway
(I suppose NR could come to a commercial arrangement to use their metals)
Ownership and use of trackbed by Sustrans north of Long Marston
(A single track combined with cycle route may be possible)
New bridge required over river Avon
Road built on trackbed in Stratford (don't know the resolution to this)

Therefore I really cannot see it happening.

Most likely we will see, over a number of years, the GWR will finish its extension from Laverton through Broadway to Honeybourne. Then, some years after that, maybe a heritage operation may open the line as far as the river Avon, but the cost of the civil engineering to get any further will put a stop to it.
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,835
What for a handful of weekends a year? Evesham-Norton jn would improve many services daily (est. 16), not just as and when a section of track is closed. And are there any issues anyway when Swansea-Padd trains are diverted via Gloucester?

Handful of weekends ? it will be a bit more than that when the wires go in. I also fail to see what improvements it makes to the Cotswold line if you re-double that last section ?? It can take a 1tph service with what is being done.
 

TheWalrus

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2008
Messages
1,983
Location
UK
Its not a very good 1tph! Most are held at evesham or worcester then again at oxford so it would mean a much smoother overall service.
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,835
But why do you think that being able to pass between Norton and Evesham would make it any easier at Wolvercote ?? Bear in mind FGW havent taken advantage of what has been put in yet. How long are trains held at Evesham ??? 4 minutes ?? Remember that until now there was a token exchange.
 

Class172

Established Member
Associate Staff
Quizmaster
Joined
20 Mar 2011
Messages
3,770
Location
West Country
By the way, when will FGW be introducing a full timetable for the finished project?
 

IanXC

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
18 Dec 2009
Messages
6,331
That is very speculative!

NR have mentioned the possibility of reopening that line for freight, but there are many issues:

Route through Cheltenham (bridges, cyclepaths and development)
Ownership and use of trackbed by Gloucestershire & Warwickshire Railway
(I suppose NR could come to a commercial arrangement to use their metals)
Ownership and use of trackbed by Sustrans north of Long Marston
(A single track combined with cycle route may be possible)
New bridge required over river Avon
Road built on trackbed in Stratford (don't know the resolution to this)

Therefore I really cannot see it happening.

Most likely we will see, over a number of years, the GWR will finish its extension from Laverton through Broadway to Honeybourne. Then, some years after that, maybe a heritage operation may open the line as far as the river Avon, but the cost of the civil engineering to get any further will put a stop to it.

I'm pretty certain thats not the route being referred to!

I read it as the proposal to bring the current freight only link from Honeybourne to Long Marston MOD, along with a new stretch of track from there to Stratford into use.

I cant find them at the moment but I have seen drawings for how a single track line, along with Seven Meadows Road (?) and the roundabout can share the land running into Stratford from the Racecourse.
 

TheWalrus

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2008
Messages
1,983
Location
UK
The longest at evesham is 13 minutes. Same for shrub hill. There would possibly be the odd problem at Wolvercote but Evesham-Norton redoubling should resolve it.

Class 172 it should be September.
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,835
It is 13 now because the timetable hasn't been changed, Ive no doubt it will be recast with Evesham and Charlbury as the pivot points in it, it would be foolish not to.
 

TheWalrus

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2008
Messages
1,983
Location
UK
Thanks, are there any timetables out yet?

I dont know if there are any "out" but I certainly have a copy of the SX :D If you would like to ask anything about it message me and I will answer your queries!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It is 13 now because the timetable hasn't been changed, Ive no doubt it will be recast with Evesham and Charlbury as the pivot points in it, it would be foolish not to.

Have you seen the new timetable? I have it and I was referring to it when answering your question. There is a wait of 13 mins at Evesham on one of the services. This is why the Evesham-Norton needs doubling!
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,835
No it doesnt, what it needs is FGW to have a long hard look at how to sort it. Evesham to Norton won't get doubled.
 

TheWalrus

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2008
Messages
1,983
Location
UK
No it doesnt, what it needs is FGW to have a long hard look at how to sort it. Evesham to Norton won't get doubled.

You cant change paths between London and Oxford the only possible slot is the XX06 and XX36. However i do agree that FGW need to have a long hard look at it!
 
Last edited:

Buttsy

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2011
Messages
1,365
Location
Hanborough
I would have thought that doubling Wolvercot junction to Hanborough would be of more use. Hanborough has become a railhead for the villages in the area & Witney because of congestion on the A40 (& B4449) into Oxford. It also would allow the potential to extend the other half-hourly London - Oxford service to Hanborough, Charlbury or even Moreton-in-Marsh to avoid the 'weave' blocking all 4 lines when trains come out of the down sidings at Oxford. Finally, it would aid delays in the event of late running.
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
9,250
Location
Between Edinburgh and Exeter
I would have thought that doubling Wolvercot junction to Hanborough would be of more use. Hanborough has become a railhead for the villages in the area & Witney because of congestion on the A40 (& B4449) into Oxford. It also would allow the potential to extend the other half-hourly London - Oxford service to Hanborough, Charlbury or even Moreton-in-Marsh to avoid the 'weave' blocking all 4 lines when trains come out of the down sidings at Oxford. Finally, it would aid delays in the event of late running.

Now thats a suggestion ill have to agree to more - perhaps doing a Chiltern with Hanborough for Witney and a deccent enough bus service?...
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,835
Dont think you can turn a train at Hanborough, it would have to go to Charlbury.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top