Ex Cops who have go on to be Drivers

[JA92]

I've past all the stages for WMT apart from my medical.

Are there any ex police here who can give me an insight into if you regret your choice of leaving the force and how it relates to life in the force now your on the rail.

Cheers

I left the police as a DS and joined LNER recently. Currently doing my driving hours and loving it.

Loads of cops here, and none have left to go back.

After your first few weeks in trains you will see the difference and never want to return.

Why waste your life in the police, dealing with scum on rubbish pay, with a poor work life balance and just waiting for a complaint or issue from just doing your job, when you can be a driver on more pay, better conditions and enjoy a work life balance.

I honestly come in, drive to wherever, drive home, and then get out and go.
No paperwork, no reports. No being off late and no asking for permission to leave. And no dealing with idiot members of the public, the people on our trains are typically nice people lol.

Also on a lot of your shifts, even tho is a 9 hour shifts, you'll only drive for 5/6 hours of it. You get a break, you get factored in commuting time if starting from another station, and it's very focused on staff welfare.

I worried driving would be boring, but it is far from it. And as I said love it and don't think I'll ever leave.

There is a lot to learn and a lot of responsibility to continue and maintain your learning, so long as your haply with that (which you should be being a copper as its similar) then all good.

If you get the opportunity to leave, don't hesitate take it, and never look back.

 

[fgwrich]

Following with interest, in a way it's a shame to see so many leave the job but it's understandable. I've seen a fair number of comments on here and said elsewhere that certainly resonate with me, be it from dealing with the public to Sgt's and management grinding you down on a daily basis.

 

[bouff34]

Agree with most of these comments, did 26yrs, left at the right time in 2019 and currently a signaller being paid very good money plus my police pension.... wouldn't go back for anything! I still loved the police even when I left.

Having moaned about the way the government had messed our pensions up and all the other complaints above just bear in mind that at least you still have a very good pension (even with the changes) and you are never likely to be made redundant. I realised how lucky I was when COVID came along and millions were being furloughed or worse. At that time I smugly thought, they'll never lay signallers off and I've got my police pension in the bank.

All I would say is, the railway world has changed because of COVID. Don't get me wrong, I still don't think it's likely that signallers will be made redundant BUT... it is very clear that Network Rail and all the TOC's have to react to the changed passenger numbers. It is likely that there will be far less recruitment - any vacancies are more likely to be given internally to avoid redundancies from roles that become surplus to requirements. Going forward are there likely to be as many trainee driver roles and trainee signaller roles on offer? Actual redundancies may become necessary in the not too distant future...

Wouldn't discourage anyone from leaving the police just make sure you are aware that the grass may not be quite so green in the future...

 

[Stigy]

Why waste your life in the police, dealing with scum on rubbish pay

I assume you mean comparatively? As a DS you must have been on at least £40-45k?

 

[bouff34]

I assume you mean comparatively? As a DS you must have been on at least £40-45k?

Yeh, must admit the comment about dealing with scum on rubbish pay goes a little against the grain. That is why we joined the police...to deal with lowlife and lock them up or were you expecting to only meet nice customers! The pay is still ok, until you look at what others get for far less grief and far less 'experts' feeling obliged to criticise your every action...

 

[Sparrowman]

I have found this thread very informative and it's interesting to see the views of those who are ex-job.

I've got 17 years in and I'm at a point where I'm considering whether I want to take the plunge and actively start looking for something different.

I still enjoy some aspects of the job, however I am not sure I want to do another 20. There would be a financial hit (at least to start with), but it certainly seems that there are a number of other work-life benefits that make it a tempting proposition.

I suspect the reality is that Covid is going to have a long term impact on the rail industry and whether there will be the same opportunities is unclear, however it is certainly food for thought...

 

[dctraindriver]

I left the police as a DS and joined LNER recently. Currently doing my driving hours and loving it.

Loads of cops here, and none have left to go back.

After your first few weeks in trains you will see the difference and never want to return.

Why waste your life in the police, dealing with scum on rubbish pay, with a poor work life balance and just waiting for a complaint or issue from just doing your job, when you can be a driver on more pay, better conditions and enjoy a work life balance.

I honestly come in, drive to wherever, drive home, and then get out and go.
No paperwork, no reports. No being off late and no asking for permission to leave. And no dealing with idiot members of the public, the people on our trains are typically nice people lol.

Also on a lot of your shifts, even tho is a 9 hour shifts, you'll only drive for 5/6 hours of it. You get a break, you get factored in commuting time if starting from another station, and it's very focused on staff welfare.

I worried driving would be boring, but it is far from it. And as I said love it and don't think I'll ever leave.

There is a lot to learn and a lot of responsibility to continue and maintain your learning, so long as your haply with that (which you should be being a copper as its similar) then all good.

If you get the opportunity to leave, don't hesitate take it, and never look back.

Nice to read the above. Enjoy it. Bear in mind that when things go wrong or if you have a safety of the line incident the scrutiny will be pretty full on and not dissimilar to how the 9 o’clock assassins made you feel.

 

[DriverEight]

If I'm honest, I find this thread utterly heartbreaking. Whereas many people join the railway because it's good money, few join the police for that reason. They join out of a genuine desire to become a police officer. So to hear of people with so many years of service and so much invaluable experience walking away from a career they've poured heart and soul into is almost unbearable. On the other hand, even as someone that has no connection with the police, I can see why they're so sick of it. No matter what actions they take it's never right. Some poor kid gets stabbed, and the police are accused of doing nothing to combat knife crime. So they try and do something pro-active and they're accused of heavy handed bullyboy tactics. Nobody ever mentions the failure of parents, community leaders and religious leaders to help - it's always the copper's fault.

So if you're a police officer that has, or is about to, taken the leap, let me assure you that I personally am saddened we've allowed it to come to this. I wish you nothing but success in your future endeavours and, above all, I thank you whole-heartedly for your service to our communities

 

[bouff34]

If I'm honest, I find this thread utterly heartbreaking. Whereas many people join the railway because it's good money, few join the police for that reason. They join out of a genuine desire to become a police officer. So to hear of people with so many years of service and so much invaluable experience walking away from a career they've poured heart and soul into is almost unbearable. On the other hand, even as someone that has no connection with the police, I can see why they're so sick of it. No matter what actions they take it's never right. Some poor kid gets stabbed, and the police are accused of doing nothing to combat knife crime. So they try and do something pro-active and they're accused of heavy handed bullyboy tactics. Nobody ever mentions the failure of parents, community leaders and religious leaders to help - it's always the copper's fault.

So if you're a police officer that has, or is about to, taken the leap, let me assure you that I personally am saddened we've allowed it to come to this. I wish you nothing but success in your future endeavours and, above all, I thank you whole-heartedly for your service to our communities

Completely agree with you, hence I'm very reluctant to poach or persuade former colleagues to come across - makes me feel like I am helping to destroy what the politicians etc started. If they've made their mind up for themselves then happy to give advice at that point but not to proactively entice them away.

Before I joined NWR as a signaller I also applied and was offered a role with MOD Police as a firearms officer. There were several like me near to the end of 30yrs service in Home Office forces but it was very sad to see at least 3/4 of the applicants only had five to ten years in the police and were already disillusioned and burned out...

 

[Owen2323]

If I'm honest, I find this thread utterly heartbreaking. Whereas many people join the railway because it's good money, few join the police for that reason. They join out of a genuine desire to become a police officer. So to hear of people with so many years of service and so much invaluable experience walking away from a career they've poured heart and soul into is almost unbearable. On the other hand, even as someone that has no connection with the police, I can see why they're so sick of it. No matter what actions they take it's never right. Some poor kid gets stabbed, and the police are accused of doing nothing to combat knife crime. So they try and do something pro-active and they're accused of heavy handed bullyboy tactics. Nobody ever mentions the failure of parents, community leaders and religious leaders to help - it's always the copper's fault.

So if you're a police officer that has, or is about to, taken the leap, let me assure you that I personally am saddened we've allowed it to come to this. I wish you nothing but success in your future endeavours and, above all, I thank you whole-heartedly for your service to our communities

That's very much appreciated mate - I think the police are probably thought of by the majority in a positive light but the people who sway the other way are generally the most vocal. It is nonetheless nice to hear comments like yours every once in a while........

 

[whoosh]

If I'm honest, I find this thread utterly heartbreaking...

Well I'm sorry to say, if you think morale in the Police is low, this thread's nothing - have a look at these two!

From 2017:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ain-driver-police-officer.139702/post-2827649

And 2019:

Police vs Railway

Hi all , As per the title , police Vs the railway ? Currently I am going through police recruitment ( I have started the application over a year ago and due to not hearing anything back I have started looking at a job with railway.). Over last 12 months I have had few interviews with good...

www.railforums.co.uk

It seems to me that the Police is an institution that grinds people down, spits them out, and shouts, "Next!" to the line of wide-eyed naïve youngsters. Only to repeat the cycle again.

 

[Stigy]

Well I'm sorry to say, if you think morale in the Police is low, this thread's nothing - have a look at these two!

From 2017:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ain-driver-police-officer.139702/post-2827649

And 2019:

Police vs Railway

Hi all , As per the title , police Vs the railway ? Currently I am going through police recruitment ( I have started the application over a year ago and due to not hearing anything back I have started looking at a job with railway.). Over last 12 months I have had few interviews with good...

www.railforums.co.uk

It seems to me that the Police is an institution that grinds people down, spits them out, and shouts, "Next!" to the line of wide-eyed naïve youngsters. Only to repeat the cycle again.

It seems there’s a general pattern of those wanting to leave being in the job between 10 and 15 years. I guess that’s been the time it’s taken for morale to hit rock bottom? I applied some years ago (about 10-15 strangely) and morale seemed far better then.

 

[dzdoris]

I always wanted to join the police. I joined as a Special in 2013 with a view to joining the regulars once they started recruiting. I did 3 years as a Special and witnessed first hand how low the morale was. Practically every regular officer I met said don't join full time. When recruitment for regulars did start, I couldn't believe the entry level wage they were offering, an absolute p*** take for what police officers actually do. Needless to say I didn't join.

 

[Stigy]

I always wanted to join the police. I joined as a Special in 2013 with a view to joining the regulars once they started recruiting. I did 3 years as a Special and witnessed first hand how low the morale was. Practically every regular officer I met said don't join full time. When recruitment for regulars did start, I couldn't believe the entry level wage they were offering, an absolute p*** take for what police officers actually do. Needless to say I didn't join.

The salary upon appointment was severely cut a few years ago. I believe it’s since increased again (a bit), as people weren’t applying, or it was t attracting the applicants they wanted.

 

[Tom82]

14 years service.. got a driver manager interview next week.. would love it to pan out.

 

[dctraindriver]

It seems there’s a general pattern of those wanting to leave being in the job between 10 and 15 years. I guess that’s been the time it’s taken for morale to hit rock bottom? I applied some years ago (about 10-15 strangely) and morale seemed far better then.

The job has always been f**ked. However the 2010 Govt change and in particular the Winsor Review with pay freezes, recruitment freezes, pension changes, weak senior management, more pressure placed on cops to deal with crimes with little support, act as a social worker or mental health worker working longer days, leave cancelled, days off cancelled etc has no doubt taken its toll. Shocking what they’ve done to what was an excellent career which was a job for life.

Such a shame it really is.

 

[Vola_c]

14 years in the police was a life sentence. Don't get me wrong, I've had some seriously fun times, got some really great friends for life and enjoyed some great highs. But it all comes at a cost. It's not what I joined 14 years ago. There are loads I wish I could "un-see" and I've personally seen strong people break. Cancelled rest days, leave embargos and planned operations if you were specialist, just added to the reasons to quit. Police officers just aren't valued anymore and sadly I would never recommend it to anyone considering joining whereas I would have done 10 years ago.

 

[Wba0986]

The job has always been f**ked. However the 2010 Govt change and in particular the Winsor Review with pay freezes, recruitment freezes, pension changes, weak senior management, more pressure placed on cops to deal with crimes with little support, act as a social worker or mental health worker working longer days, leave cancelled, days off cancelled etc has no doubt taken its toll. Shocking what they’ve done to what was an excellent career which was a job for life.

Such a shame it really is.

Absolutely this.. I start as a trainee driver in 2 weeks after 17.5 years as a PC. It used to be a great career and now it is just seen as a job. Noone seems to want to stay long term and just want to add it to their cv as it makes them look good when furthering their career aspirations. Can't wait for a fresh start and see what life is like outside the police

 

[Stigy]

Absolutely this.. I start as a trainee driver in 2 weeks after 17.5 years as a PC. It used to be a great career and now it is just seen as a job. Noone seems to want to stay long term and just want to add it to their cv as it makes them look good when furthering their career aspirations. Can't wait for a fresh start and see what life is like outside the police

Good for getting a job on the railway if nothing else

 

[Wba0986]

Good for getting a job on the railway if nothing else

Absolutely

 

[Stigy]

Absolutely

Imagine the interview for the police, “where do you see yourself in 10 years from now?”

“Hopefully driving trains”

 

[Wba0986]

Imagine the interview for the police, “where do you see yourself in 10 years from now?”

“Hopefully driving trains”

Haha, I also politely declined an exit interview just in case

 

[C J Snarzell]

The job has always been f**ked. However the 2010 Govt change and in particular the Winsor Review with pay freezes, recruitment freezes, pension changes, weak senior management, more pressure placed on cops to deal with crimes with little support, act as a social worker or mental health worker working longer days, leave cancelled, days off cancelled etc has no doubt taken its toll. Shocking what they’ve done to what was an excellent career which was a job for life.

Such a shame it really is.

Definately a crying shame what has happened to the police. When I joined the cops in 2003, there were still loads of the older cops around who joined in the 1970s, who were in their final years of their 30 years service. A few of them commented that there was actually a high turn over of officers in the 70s like there is now, but society was a difference place back then with less demands on the police.

In 1979, police pay & conditions was drastically improved following the Edmund-Davies report. From what I have been told - the 1980s & 90s were probably the best era to be in the 'Force'.

I think the corrosion to the police service probably began at the turn of the Millennium, before I joined, with the implications of things like the MacPherson enquiry and the introduction of the IPCC, later to become the IOPC.

Even during my early years in the 'job', I was seeing a massive turn in tides with front line cops dealing with more & more incidents that many from the 1970s would have said ''this ain't a police matter''.

What I found frustrating was the rising rate of domestic/mental health incidents which account for 90% of police time. I generally went into those scenarios with a 'back covering attitude' and invariably, despite taking positive action I would be dealing with the same members of society on a regular basis, week after week. I almost felt like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

I have a real bug bear for agencies like Social Services and various Mental Health organisations who just constantly 'left shoulder' their responsibilities onto the police. A lot of the issues are down to the fact other public services are 'stretched' for resources with restricted budgets, so their proceedure is throw it into the police lap. I have the upmost respect for any cop who is serving at present as it is a completely thankless job.

For anyone interested in reading how bad police morale is - check out the book 'Wasting Police Time' by David Coppperfield. Published by former Staffordshire cop Stuart Davidson in 2006 (he hid his identity at the time for obvious reasons while he was still serving). Although the book is 15 years old, some of the topics Stuart raises are just as relevant now.

CJ

 

[kickin aff]

I left the Police after 17 years service, 10 years of that as a Detective. Around 14 years service, I started to think that it was not the job I thought it was. Like all industries it was hit with financial cuts which made the job harder. Moral was low and senior management continued to try and squeeze every last thing out of the human sponge that we are!!!!
I decided I wanted something else. I looked into train driving and the more I read about it and found out about the job the more I wanted it.
I applied, it took around 2 years to get in. I started in 2019 and have not looked back. It's not for everyone but the positives for me are lone working, 4 day working week, work OT when I want to work OT, next to no paperwork and not dealing with the public's misery day in, day out.

 

[crwl]

This thread has been extremely interesting, and eye opening really. It's encouraged me to sign up to the forum rather than simply monitor from a distance. I'm much shorter in service than a lot on here, but still looking for a way out already. Police officer was the only job I ever really wanted to do, so I didn't want to pass up the opportunity when it came up and think "what if?" even if it was a risk at the time.

One thing that I think does not help is those that have been in for a long time, who know what policing used to be like in its better days, regularly making sure the new joiners are aware how downhill policing is going on a regular basis. Obviously I can only base my experience on the time I have been working in the police, but morale is low partially because of that reason in my opinion. Imagine going through the hard work of recruit training only to be told by experienced officers in your first week that joining was a mistake... doesn't really breed confidence!

The impression I get from this forum and the discussions around train driving as a whole is that it seems to be the opposite situation. People are scrambling for train driver jobs, not scrambling to leave. Conditions and work-life balance look like they're improving, not getting worse. It's sad to read all the negativity around policing but I understand it.

 

[Sir Hateley]

What is the pension for newbies? I’m assuming it’s based on fraction multiples ie 1/40th or 1/60th or is it a money purchase scheme?

 

[kickin aff]

What is the pension for newbies? I’m assuming it’s based on fraction multiples ie 1/40th or 1/60th or is it a money purchase scheme?

It's a 1/40th and can transfer in.

 

[C J Snarzell]

What is the pension for newbies? I’m assuming it’s based on fraction multiples ie 1/40th or 1/60th or is it a money purchase scheme?

Sir Hateley

There are three different police pensions - the 1987 scheme (that I was in), the 2006 scheme and more recently the 2015 scheme.

The 1987 30 years service pension scheme is the best one - this was originally based on officers contributing 11% of their salary, but this was increased following the Winsor review to around 13-14%. The officers on the 2006 scheme originally contributed about 9% of salary as this was based on a 35 year pension, but again this was increased.

I think the biggest bug bear of all cops were that they were paying more into the pensions but not getting out the same 'rewards' as a cop who has recently retired. I am not 100% sure of whether the police pension arbitration process has ever been resolved. Maybe someone can answer this question?

CJ

 

[bouff34]

It's a 1/40th and can transfer in.

1/40th?? Are you sure? 40 years and you have a 100% pension?

 

[kickin aff]

1/40th?? Are you sure? 40 years and you have a 100% pension?

That is certainly my understanding but could be wrong.