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Ex-LNER Mk4 sets for Grand Central (Blackpool - Euston)

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nuneatonmark

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I couldn't see a thread on this and since the announcement some months back of the approval to run 5 trains a day from Blackpool to London, all seems to have gone quiet. Now that 800s are ramping up on LNER and the first Mk4 sets are being freed up for TfW, does anyone know when sets might be freed up for GNWR?
 
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59CosG95

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I couldn't see a thread on this and since the announcement some months back of the approval to run 5 trains a day from Blackpool to London, all seems to have gone quiet. Now that 800s are ramping up on LNER and the first Mk4 sets are being freed up for TfW, does anyone know when sets might be freed up for GNWR?
Presumably when whichever works is refurbishing them for Grand Central is ready for them. TfW have 2 Mk4 rakes (half of what was BN23, ditto BN24) in Eastleigh at the moment; it would make sense for GC to refurbish their Mk4s there too. GC will, however, have more coaches per rake (7 passenger veh's + a DVT) than TfW (4 passenger veh's + DVT) if I recall, so their work might take longer to complete.
 

Matt1983

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I believe also that Class 90’s from DB’s fleet will be used instead of the Class 91’s they had originally intended to use. Not sure if anyone has any further info on this? Assuming they may have to return to service a few of the ones currently stored so as not to affect the use of the current working fleet?
 

HLE

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All quiet on the western front on this one and it's not surprising. To start up a TOC you need staff and I haven't seen an advert for one yet. That comes before the leasing of stock.
 

trolleyman

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All quiet on the western front on this one and it's not surprising. To start up a TOC you need staff and I haven't seen an advert for one yet. That comes before the leasing of stock.

think they are doing well on the staff front. I know of 2 Drivers starring in the new year with them. Believe they haven’t been told dates yet but told they have the job.
All quiet on the western front on this one and it's not surprising. To start up a TOC you need staff and I haven't seen an advert for one yet. That comes before the leasing of stock.
 

Darandio

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All quiet on the western front on this one and it's not surprising. To start up a TOC you need staff and I haven't seen an advert for one yet. That comes before the leasing of stock.

Been a couple of threads here about it. One a while ago when they first started recruiting and another last week (I think) with a new wave of recruitment.
 

50039

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Bumping this thread up - I’ve seen some info on Twitter (UK railway information) that paths are in for test runs starting mid-Feb - even lists the individual 90s to be used.... does this mean it’s actually going to happen?
 

59CosG95

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Bumping it again, Railcam on Twitter has reported that 66756 moved 2 rakes of reduced-size Mk4s (each formed of 3 Std Class coaches, 1 buffet coach, 1 1st Class coach and a DVT) from Worksop Down Yd to Widnes Transport Tech (i.e. Alstom's facility). The extra Std Class coach makes me think that they could be for GC rather than TfW. https://twitter.com/railcamlive/status/1224316581402025986?s=19
 

59CosG95

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Vehicles in question:
12222/12461/12323/10330/11321/82227 (ex-BN21) + 12224/12477/12326/10321/11320/82200 (ex-BN20).

Coaches B, C, F, H, L & the DVT are the ones from each ex-LNER set going to GC.
 

Oberon_706

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Many photo's of this working appearing in the twitter-verse. Forgive the potential ignorance of the question (i'm from Australia and therefore slightly unfamiliar) I'm surprised they're only going with 5-6 car rakes (not incl. DVT) considering Virgin/Avanti have been working Pendolino's into Blackpool via the WCML?, or are GC working on a smaller service more frequently principle like TPE's Mk5/Class 68 services?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Many photo's of this working appearing in the twitter-verse. Forgive the potential ignorance of the question (i'm from Australia and therefore slightly unfamiliar) I'm surprised they're only going with 5-6 car rakes (not incl. DVT) considering Virgin/Avanti have been working Pendolino's into Blackpool via the WCML?, or are GC working on a smaller service more frequently principle like TPE's Mk5/Class 68 services?

Two likely reasons:
- the short Mk4 rakes will accelerate quicker to 110mph in between Avanti's 125mph services
- they can call at Kirkham and Poulton on the Blackpool branch, whereas Avanti's longer Pendolinos can't
 

D365

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What happened to the Class 91's that were originally mooted?

Don't think anything specific has happened, just that the Class 90s are a better option unless you have a pressing need to go beyond 110mph.
 

Mag_seven

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Bumping it again, Railcam on Twitter has reported that 66756 moved 2 rakes of reduced-size Mk4s (each formed of 3 Std Class coaches, 1 buffet coach, 1 1st Class coach and a DVT) from Worksop Down Yd to Widnes Transport Tech (i.e. Alstom's facility). The extra Std Class coach makes me think that they could be for GC rather than TfW. https://twitter.com/railcamlive/status/1224316581402025986?s=19

Another similar movement today from Doncaster to Crewe.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00313/2020-02-04/detailed
 

Neptune

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Passed it looped at Kirkgate at 1300 (still there at 1430). DVT, FO, SV, TSO, TSO, TSOE. GBRF 66 on the front with the DVT leading the formation.
 

Merle Haggard

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Thought the 90's were often referred as Skodas?

Back in the 1990's, there were 'Skodas' and 'Ladas'. One was the 90s, the other was the EBW DVTs. Can't remember which was which.

RfDs initial allocation of motive power was composed of the other sectors' rejects. TLF released high hours 47s and 37 but those nice people at Inter-City offered us their nearly-new class 90s. As they say in the USA "go figure"...

EBW - Euston Birmingham Wolverhampton
DVT Driving van trailer
TlF Trainload Freight

Edit small typo
 

DGH 1

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That name originates from the late 80s/early 90s. Class 91s were sometimes referred to as Ladas at the time (another fine example of engineering!)
Please don't knock ladas, I had two and they're the only cars that I ever sold for more than I paid for them lol.(to the Russians mind you).
 

Class455

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Passed it looped at Kirkgate at 1300 (still there at 1430). DVT, FO, SV, TSO, TSO, TSOE. GBRF 66 on the front with the DVT leading the formation.
It was coaches from BN29 with DVT 82231
 

Railperf

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Two likely reasons:
- the short Mk4 rakes will accelerate quicker to 110mph in between Avanti's 125mph services
- they can call at Kirkham and Poulton on the Blackpool branch, whereas Avanti's longer Pendolinos can't
I doubt a class 91 load 8 will accelerate faster than the Avanti services
 
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Neptune

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A driver at Euston in 1989 referred to the mk3 DVT’S as Skoda estates. This was at a time when they were new and having a few problems with getting the TDM to talk between the loco and DVT.
 

sprinterguy

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Thought the 90's were often referred as Skodas?
As noted above that's a historical nickname. Greater Anglia's class 90s and mark 3 rakes were achieving 58323 miles between technical incidents in the year to October 2018, more reliable than any other inter-city fleet in the country, and streets ahead of 17009 miles per technical incident being achieved by LNER's class 91s and mark 4s during the same period.
I doubt a class 91 load 8 will Accelerate faster than an Azuma
I'm confused as to how that's relevant to this thread? Grand Central are using class 90s with five mark 4s, not class 91s on load 8, and Hitachi AT-300s will be in the minority on the WCML.

The point being made was that 90s will be faster to 110 than 91s. Plus the 90s are a known quantity on the WCML, rather than introducing a new traction type to the route.

Apologies if I've missed something.
 
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Railperf

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As noted above that's a historical nickname. Greater Anglia's class 90s and mark 3 rakes were achieving 58323 miles between technical incidents in the year to October 2018, more reliable than any other inter-city fleet in the country, and streets ahead of 17009 miles per technical incident being achieved by LNER's class 91s and mark 4s during the same period.

I'm confused as to how that's relevant to this thread? Grand Central are using class 90s with five mark 4s, not class 91s on load 8, and Hitachi AT-300s will be in the minority on the WCML.

The point being made was that 90s will be faster to 110 than 91s. Plus the 90s are a known quantity on the WCML, rather than introducing a new traction type to the route.

Apologies if I've missed something.
Ahhh..i thought i read early in the thread the formation would be a Class 91, 7 mk4s and a DVT.
If it is now reduced to a Class 90 and 5 vehicles, might be a closer match to an Azuma accelerating to 100mph in the dry. But less predictable in the wet.
 

sprinterguy

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Ahhh..i thought i read early in the thread the formation would be a Class 91, 7 mk4s and a DVT.
If it is now reduced to a Class 90 and 5 vehicles, might be a closer match to an Azuma accelerating to 100mph in the dry. But less predictable in the wet.
Ah righto. The initially approved application, in June 2018, was for class 91s with six mark 4s and a DVT, but there's been some chopping and changing gone on since then.
 
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