Ex Physics Teacher claims "children 'being shaken out of bed' by train noise"

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by route:oxford, 22 Apr 2018.

  1. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Upper middle class, southern, well educated, well connected, well upholstered, affluent, "wont someone think of the house prices" NIMBYS - that's why ;)
     
  2. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    What? You're aware of the West London Line, right?
     
  3. tomatwark

    tomatwark Member

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    Spoken like a true Northerner, well said.
     
  4. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    ...And yet a check of realtimetrains for a random 24 hours of freight moves through Oxford doesn’t actually show any origins or destinations that would ever have been logically routed via London...
     
  5. coppercapped

    coppercapped Established Member

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    North Oxford is Nimby Central.

    Any change is a thing of the Devil...
     
  6. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Aspirations of nearby Chipping Norton where they really think that they are special.
     
  7. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    44 tonnes HGVs thunder down the A6 in Derbyshire 24 hours a day. When I first moved into my village I could walk home from the pub down the centre white line of that road, and those few HGVs that put in an appearance weighed 32 tons.

    Where do I send my application for compensation and what response do you think I will get? I already know the answer as I have been officially informed there is NO compensation or assistance towards double glazing etc, for increase in traffic on existing roads.

    Why are railways different?
     
  8. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    Really? A quick look at the same for me shows a great many Southampton - North West services which could very logically pass over the WLL. There are even a decent number of Southampton - Leeds services for which a via London route would be substantially shorter than sending them via the West Midlands.

    It's highly likely that in BR days many of these services (or their equivelents) were routed via the WLL and WCML in order to use cheaper, cleaner and generally quieter electric traction.
     
  9. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Only with a considerable time penalty, and with no capacity for it anyway. The usual freight route is via Reading and Oxford, just like the usual route for road traffic is the A34, not the M25. To the best of my knowledge BR never used 'cheaper, cleaner and generally quieter electric traction' from Southampton to any destination in the north.
     
  10. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    No, they swapped the locos in the London area (usually at Willesden for WCML work). Until the 92s came along there were no real "heavy freight" locos that could run on 3rd rail. Remember that BR had something of a "no diesels under the wires" policy until around 1980; meaning that even services routed via Oxford and the West Midlands would usually have a loco swap before arriving in the North West.
     
  11. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    And the amount of people you're bothering with noise and disturbance via London probably far, far exceeds that number via Oxford...
     
  12. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    OK - then where are they going to go? Surely not up the already massively congested WCML?

    more tinfoil. There isnt some conspiracy against Oxford and its wonderful residents you know.................
     
  13. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    Does anyone know the sort of speeds involved here? I've not stayed that many places near a railway line, but have had a couple of nights at Premier Inn Cheltenham, which isn't so far from the station. The freights overnight didn't pass through with a great speed, but I heard a few of them clacking over what must have been a rail joint or small defect in the track, a couple of times, but it certainly didn't shake the building at all. In fact, I was more miffed the trees meant I couldn't really see much of what was passing :P
     
  14. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    The WCML is not "massively congested" in the middle of the night...

    I know. It's just long-standing government policy to underinvest in anything (especially infrastructure) outside of London.
     
  15. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    Absolutely - even if there are other routes, there may be people on these who don't want more freight rolling past their bedrooms!
     
  16. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    but it is often closed overnight or run as a limited access railway to allow for maintenance that cant be done during the more congested daylight period

    eh? how has that anything to do with sending trains via Oxford?
     
  17. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Some of the heavy aggregate trains are from Somerset to Banbury or Oxford aggregate yards. It would be pretty stupid not to send them via Oxford.

    Most container trains from Southampton to the northwest or Leeds are W10 gauge and cannot use the SWML beyond Basingstoke towards London as they are too tall. So they end up at Reading, from where the normal route to the north is via Oxford.
     
  18. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

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    I said you're entitled to complain, not you're automatically entitled to compensation, from what you've said it sounds like you have already complained and demanded compensation, only for your demands to be rejected. If you're talking about lorries serving a newly built depot/facility near you then the local council are able to impose planning restrictions including the times vehicles can and can't access the site as part of the application. Even Manchester Airport has some restrictions on when they can and can't use the second runway at night. However, when the freight trains are going from a facility 50 miles away to one 100 miles away there's not much you can do.
     
  19. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    Oxford isn't in London. Modernisation plans for the route through Oxford have been "indefinitely postponed" (i.e. cancelled). Freight traffic has increased over the last few decades, increasing daytime passenger traffic has forced more freight to run at night and there is a general politically-lead desire not to route it through London if there's an alternative. Thus, Oxford ends up with increasing numbers of noisy, dirty, diesel frieghts on outdated, unsuitable infrastructure while politicians sit around debating air quality in London.

    Obviously. Isn't it great how whenever someone says something that amounts to "we should avoid doing x where possible" people always respond as though they've said "we must never do x at all costs"? Of course some freight has to go through Oxford. Does that mean virtually all freight between Southampton and points north of London has to go that way and that no attempt should be made to avoid sending noisy trains through restidential areas during the night? I would say not.

    A sensible country/government would be investing in infrastructure so that there is enough capacity for both passenger and freight during the day and so that freight that does have to run at night could use quieter, more environmentally friendly traction... Anybody remember the "electric spine"...?
     
  20. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    The electric spine that ran right through Oxford, and either towards Banbury or Bicester. Yes, I remember, and there have been numerous discussions about it anyway. All published plans seem to be about more freight capacity through Oxford, not diverting away from Oxford.
     
  21. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    I think you need to look beyond your fevered conspiracy theory.................
     
  22. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    Yes. The point being that had that plan gone ahead, the noise levels would have been greatly reduced, even if the same number or even more freights were routed that way.

    For it to be a "conspiracy theory" there would have to be both a "conspiracy" and a "theory". Whether what I've said is a "conspiracy" is a matter of personal opinion (surely a "conspiracy" should have some actual goal, rather than just being a mostly-uninitentional result of disconnected government policies?), but I don't see anything that's a "theory"... Are you saying that freight or passenger traffic hasn't increased? That the route through Oxford has been modernised? That more freight isn't running at night? That more freight isn't being routed away from London for largely political reasons? Maybe you believe that Oxford is in London...?
     
  23. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    I am saying that your suggestion is silly. Can you point to any documents that show, for " largely political reasons" Oxford is being targeted with more freight trains? I simply ask because whenever i have, in my limited experience, seen anything to do with train planning ( most often heavy, diesel hauled trains) there doesn't seem to be a big box flash up on the screen saying: DO NOT ROUTE VIA LONDON AS IT WILL BE TOO NOISY/POLLUTING THEREFORE SEEK ALTERNATIVE ROUTE
     
  24. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    I never said Oxford was being "targetted". It's just in the unfortunate position of being on the best non-London route for freight traffic from South Coast ports to points north of London. There is no legislation to restrict noise from railways, unlike virtually every other heavy industry.



    Of course not. You just find that the routes via London aren't "suggested" by the system (I have no idea what the NR train planning systems looks like), because the routes are closed overnight to reduce noise or have weight/speed limits designed to discourage freight routing via London, etc.
     
  25. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    I am not sure about that. Do you mean the national rail enquires routing system? There are, of course, lots of routes closed overnight or subject to weight/speed restrictions and lots of gauging issues etc. but I am not aware of any restrictions added to prevent routing via London beyond usual operational considerations and certainly not because of noise or pollution.
     
    Last edited: 23 Apr 2018
  26. coppercapped

    coppercapped Established Member

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    Absolute nonsense. All these members of the Orange Army that one sees about Oxford relaying track, adding new S&C work, changing the signalling and opening a new route to London are a figment of my imagination then?

    Only the electrification between Didcot and Oxford has been 'postponed' not 'cancelled'. In any event the electrification would have had to have followed the re-signalling for all the usual immunisation reasons and that it's cheaper to electrify the final layout and not one which is subject to change. All the other work is going ahead as I write.

    The issue seems to be that some residents living near the Oxford - Bicester - Bletchley line near Wolvercote Tunnel are concerned that freight trains for the construction of HS2 will be routed that way and that these may disturb them - not that the existing freights on the Oxford - Banbury line are the problem. In any event land to the west of the Oxford - Banbury line is uninhabited - being the semi-holy Port Meadow - and houses to the east have always been close to the railway. But for residents of north Oxford - protesting is a way of life...
     
  27. trash80

    trash80 Established Member

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    I don't know, maybe because SCIENCE
     
  28. a good off

    a good off Member

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    Have you ever been to Acton Wells Jn Delticdave? Huge amount of cross city freight by modern standards.
     
  29. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    That seems pretty clear. I worked in (freight) train planning. The idea that there was political pressure applied to the routes used is fanciful to say the least. I doubt that has changed.
     
  30. jdxn

    jdxn Member

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    For freight trains South to North arriving at Reading, the Oxford route is the most logical. Forgetting all the 'London Centric Politician' rubbish, actually the route East from Reading is extremely busy and will have even less capacity than now once full Crossrail service is going. At nights and weekends a lot of it is a 2 track railway anyway because of the possessions on the GWML. Acton Wells Jn, the NLL are hugely busy too. As an aside if the argument is about how many you disturb with stone train at night, you can guarantee that you will wake up many more people between West Drayton and Acton, and Acton to Harrow (on the WCML) than you would ever wake up in Oxford.

    The majority of politicians have many more things to worry about than the routing of freight trains and how many are woken up.

    Buy a house near an airport - expect aeroplanes, buy a house near a railway - expect trains. We could ban freight trains entirely so the darlings will sleep but then they would complain when the motorways are clogged with stone lorries and container trucks!
     

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