Examples of poor / good transport integration

[extendedpaul]

Caerphilly : Bus station adjacent to railway station. You can walk under cover between them.

Cardiff: Bus station used to be right outside Central station but land grabbed for development and promised new bus station yet to appear. Bus stops scattered all round the city centre with no central map as far as I've seen so smartphone with Traveline app very useful

Newport: Bus stations five minutes walk from railway station. Some signposts but not that prominent.

A couple of years ago Stagecoach South Wales changed a late evening bus from Caerphilly to run 10 minutes earlier, thereby losing a connection with the train from Cardiff. I contacted them, got a nice "thank you" reply and it was changed back within a few weeks. Very impressive.

 

[Bantamzen]

A new bus station was built in Chorley across the road from the railway station and the information screens showed train departures. A good attempt at integration. Then it was decided that it cost money to have the train info. Hence the info. Is no longer shown. Seems the usual problem of capital projects being degraded by lack of current expenditure by local authorities.

I had to laugh at this, mainly because The Fox pub in Shipley (just behind platform 1 and very good!) often uses it’s TV screen to display the live train times at Shipley!! And I’ve seen similar at other pubs in the past that are close to stations.

Since Leeds lost its free city bus service a couple of years ago, the bus station and train station feel further away than ever. It's only a 15 minute walk between the 2 but can feel 10x longer if the weather is bad or its late on a Friday/Saturday night.

And if we are honest, it was often a slow trundle towards the rail station in one direction, and a magical mystery tour in the other. But now if you don’t want to face the joys of crossing Leeds by foot (part of my daily commute) then you’ve got to try and shoehorn onto one of the services that run past both the rail and bus stations (or in my case just beyond the bus station). Its not so bad going towards the rail station, a number use the stops on New Station Street, but going eastwards the buses are split across a number of stops often meaning having to hover between them to try and anticipate the next one that will arrive (the CIS screens often can’t cope with the slow movement through the city due to traffic, so “Due in 2 mins” can often mean 5 or more).

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Leeds is poor, as usual. Although the city is roughly the same as Manchester in terms of size, Leeds has no free city buses, the train station is at the other end of the city to the bus station. There are no trams or underground network, so you would think the buses would be top class, No. Unfortunately first run the majority of urban routes around Leeds and they are pretty useless.

Leeds has so much potential but the council have always been too stupid to come up with new and creative ideas for transport. They are happy to let companies build loads of offices and shops but don't see the potential for things like free city buses. They will only run something if it makes a profit, they don't think about using tax money from all of these companies and employees who are moving into the city to fund new transport.

There's two City Buses in Leeds...

- The 5, which runs from Halton Moor to Halton Moor via the former FCB route (this serves the railway station).
- The 70, which departs from Infirmary Street and runs to Leeds Docks (this route is branded as City Bus South Bank and uses a branded 70 vehicle).

 

[Andyh82]

Add another name to the list slagging off Leeds- partly down to deregulation (same issues affect Bradford and Liverpool when it comes to multi-modal journeys) but the size of Leeds makes it more of a glaring problem.

All those places are in PTE areas and hence have PTE tickets that are available on all modes of transport, which is more than most places in non PTE areas have.

Ironically the replacement Leeds city bus number 5 actually runs a more direct route between the bus and rail station than the real one did before it was axed. Of course getting a tram network isn't for want of trying, the funding was pulled many times by governments of both colours as was the cheaper alternative.

 

[radamfi]

All those places are in PTE areas and hence have PTE tickets that are available on all modes of transport, which is more than most places in non PTE areas have.

But not for single journeys involving a change of bus.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

But not for single journeys involving a change of bus.

Deregulation removed any teeth that PTEs had with regard to buses. It's not easy to work out the most cost-effective way of navigating a city when visiting for a day or a weekend, PTE or not. Whilst Prague's legacy tram network would be nigh-on impossible to replicate anywhere in this day and age, the integration and ease-of-use of the whole system (bus, tram, metro, suburban rail) shouldn't be. I went there with just a few phrases in Czech which I learned on my way there, and had barely even a nervous moment where I was unsure of my route. If someone with a similar lack of English could manage half as well in Leeds, I will gladly buy them a Yorkshire pudding filled with roast beef and gravy as a reward!

 

[route101]

In Glasgow the Bus Station is located uphill from Both Queen St and Central , most city buses pass down union st past Central , 2 city routes by first terminate in the Bus stn the 9 and 77 .Not reallyy any innovation by First in Glasgow though i heard contactless for cards is coming soon . There is some poor integration like at East Kilbride where theres a main road but no major bus routes go along despite loads using the station .

 

[Busaholic]

Deregulation removed any teeth that PTEs had with regard to buses. It's not easy to work out the most cost-effective way of navigating a city when visiting for a day or a weekend, PTE or not. Whilst Prague's legacy tram network would be nigh-on impossible to replicate anywhere in this day and age, the integration and ease-of-use of the whole system (bus, tram, metro, suburban rail) shouldn't be. I went there with just a few phrases in Czech which I learned on my way there, and had barely even a nervous moment where I was unsure of my route. If someone with a similar lack of English could manage half as well in Leeds, I will gladly buy them a Yorkshire pudding filled with roast beef and gravy as a reward!

I've never been fortunate enough to visit Prague, but I'd bet that most of the people running that whole transport system, at all levels, see it as an entity rather than component parts. Here virtually nobody has a career that encompasses long spells involved in working in both train and bus sectors, let alone trams, metro, etc. My own experience at London Transport, although a long time ago, showed how bus and Underground were each operated with almost no regard to each other, and I see no evidence that the basic ethos has changed much in intervening years, with the sole exception that the planning of bus routes now does have some regard to Underground connections, even though this is probably now more due to cost constraints than a genuine desire to integrate.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've never been fortunate enough to visit Prague, but I'd bet that most of the people running that whole transport system, at all levels, see it as an entity rather than component parts. Here virtually nobody has a career that encompasses long spells involved in working in both train and bus sectors, let alone trams, metro, etc. My own experience at London Transport, although a long time ago, showed how bus and Underground were each operated with almost no regard to each other, and I see no evidence that the basic ethos has changed much in intervening years, with the sole exception that the planning of bus routes now does have some regard to Underground connections, even though this is probably now more due to cost constraints than a genuine desire to integrate.

The fares in Prague seem low to Brits, but relative to other costs (eating out, groceries etc.) they aren't overly cheap for locals. They are however good value, which is more than can be said for transport here at home. The ticketing is governed by the city government (much like London for the most part) but there is some private sector involvement without the rampant profiteering (or appearance thereof) seen here. The clear difference is of course regulation, but also a government (of whichever slant) which remembers who their priority should be- namely the voters rather than the donors. The history in that country would suggest that socialism (even "Democratic socialism") might be a dirty word, but even the conservative politicians do not subscribe to the idea that state control is always bad, which many in this country seem to. Sadly I'm not sure the neo-liberal genie can ever be put back in the bottle here, even if there was an election next week and Corbyn won a landslide. The media and the general discourse here, along with 40 years of pro-corporate legislation, would likely prevent any real change. It also doesn't help that many here seem to believe that even Tony Blair was a socialist!

Hadn't planned on going on a political rant, but I've been up for over 18 hours and I'm still at Kings Cross! Apologies...

 

[Busaholic]

The fares in Prague seem low to Brits, but relative to other costs (eating out, groceries etc.) they aren't overly cheap for locals. They are however good value, which is more than can be said for transport here at home. The ticketing is governed by the city government (much like London for the most part) but there is some private sector involvement without the rampant profiteering (or appearance thereof) seen here. The clear difference is of course regulation, but also a government (of whichever slant) which remembers who their priority should be- namely the voters rather than the donors. The history in that country would suggest that socialism (even "Democratic socialism") might be a dirty word, but even the conservative politicians do not subscribe to the idea that state control is always bad, which many in this country seem to. Sadly I'm not sure the neo-liberal genie can ever be put back in the bottle here, even if there was an election next week and Corbyn won a landslide. The media and the general discourse here, along with 40 years of pro-corporate legislation, would likely prevent any real change. It also doesn't help that many here seem to believe that even Tony Blair was a socialist!

Hadn't planned on going on a political rant, but I've been up for 16 hours and I'm still at Kings Cross! Apologies...

It's good to have a rant sometimes, get it out of your system and all that!
An interesting post - I regret I have to agree with you about the neo-liberal genie : I'm an oldie who hasn't got more conservative with age in the most part, although I have no truck with some of the trendy rubbish doing the rounds.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's good to have a rant sometimes, get it out of your system and all that!
An interesting post - I regret I have to agree with you about the neo-liberal genie : I'm an oldie who hasn't got more conservative with age in the most part, although I have no truck with some of the trendy rubbish doing the rounds.

I'm intrigued by what you consider "trendy rubbish", but if it's the silly Jeremy Corbyn Glastonbury song I wholly agree and suspect that secretly Corbyn does too! But that's off-topic anyway...

Also off-topic, but less-so, I'd thoroughly recommend Prague even just for a Transport-geek trip. Prague Tram Challenge, anyone?

 

[ChathillMan]

For me integration is about the small things as much as the big things.

Bus operators are seriously missing a trick not having leaflets in Rail Stations. There are exceptions to this like Nottingham and Reading. I visited a city in the east of England recently. Buses to all sorts of places outside the station..Not a single bus guide for me to pick up in the concourse area.

 

[Statto]

Chester is a weird one, connections to City Centre from the rail station used to be awful, now there's a few bus services going to the rail station including a City Centre-Rail Station bus link, the bus exchange has now closed but a new bus interchange is open on Gorse Stacks nearer the rail station but still a fair walk

 

[61653 HTAFC]

For me integration is about the small things as much as the big things.

Bus operators are seriously missing a trick not having leaflets in Rail Stations. There are exceptions to this like Nottingham and Reading. I visited a city in the east of England recently. Buses to all sorts of places outside the station..Not a single bus guide for me to pick up in the concourse area.

This was one thing the PTEs were still getting right, until recently. Death by a thousand tiny cuts...

 

[Andyh82]

For me integration is about the small things as much as the big things.

Bus operators are seriously missing a trick not having leaflets in Rail Stations. There are exceptions to this like Nottingham and Reading. I visited a city in the east of England recently. Buses to all sorts of places outside the station..Not a single bus guide for me to pick up in the concourse area.

In many places you can't get a bus guide in any location anymore never mind the train station.

Nottingham makes up for most though, you can pick up a full set of timetables and maps in half a dozen different places in the city centre.

 

[306024]

Chelmsford is excellent, bus station right next to the train station (or road station right next to the railway station ). Plus bus tickets are available too.

 

[edwin_m]

Nottingham is a great city for transport that gets many things right.....apart from the fact you can only get a direct bus to the station from the south of the city

The Victoria Centre Bus Station is very inconveniently situated for the railway station.

The NCT buses from the south of the city do continue round the city centre, stopping near the stops of most of the other NCT and TrentBarton routes. There is also the Centrelink bus although this is no longer free (except temporarily during Broadmarsh re-build). Either is an extra fare unless on a day ticket or a pass. However Victoria Bus Station is the major exception, as the nearest stop accessible from the station is the main entrance of the Victoria Centre - probably ten minutes walk although it's under cover when the centre is open.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Both Cradley Heath and Stourbridge Town have bus stations next to them with frequent buses connecting them to the local shopping centre (Intu Merry Hill)

One thing I like living in a PTE is the combined train/bus passes one can get

 

[edwin_m]

The sign on the bus station at Portsmouth Harbour saying "The Hard Interchange" always makes me chuckle.

 

[Great_Western]

The sign on the bus station at Portsmouth Harbour saying "The Hard Interchange" always makes me chuckle.

I very rarely go to Portsmouth but I was there last week having come from the Isle of Wight. I used the hoverbus to get from the terminal to Portsmouth Harbour Station and as someone who doesn't know the city very well, I found it being announced as "The Hard" quite confusing. Especially as I had consumed several pints by this time

 

[Harbouring]

I very rarely go to Portsmouth but I was there last week having come from the Isle of Wight. I used the hoverbus to get from the terminal to Portsmouth Harbour Station and as someone who doesn't know the city very well, I found it being announced as "The Hard" quite confusing. Especially as I had consumed several pints by this time

It's quite an old local naval term and I'm glad the new bus station (which is an improvement in most ways over the old one however it's missing a greasy spoon) kept the name. Could easily have ended up as Gunwharf quays bus station.