Excess Fares for Boarding at a set down only.

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Mutant Lemming

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Once again one thread has me thinking of another point. This is the one about the set down restriction at Wembley Central. It had me thinking that if you were to board a set down only train would you be charged a fare from the previous non set down stop ? ... and then what if you had a Southern Daysave or Rover ticket valid from the stop before ? What then would be the 'punishment' for boarding a train at a set down only stop?
 
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causton

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Hmm...

In the Southern case, probably nothing - as it's not really Southern's idea to have had those restrictions (hence why they are now removed).

But let's say you took a Virgin train from Watford Junction - but held a London Terminals - Birmingham New Street single? Would they charge you another fare? (oops, incorrect)
But let's say you took a Virgin train from Watford Junction to Euston - but held a Birmingham New Street - London single? Would they charge you another fare?


Or if the Southern restriction was still in place, and you had a Z1-6 travelcard? Hmm... an interesting question...!
 
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yorkie

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In theory they can ask you to purchase a ticket that would be valid from the last pick up station, however if one was already held then that, surely, is the end of the matter.
 

Pumbaa

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If I recall correctly, somebody challenged this on an All Line Rover by boarding at a set down only stop. They were charged but had the UFN rescinded later. The Guard onboard of the opinion that while the ALR would be valid had they got on at the previous stop, the presence of 'set down only' invalidated the ALR for the journey. Fairly ridiculous and spurious.

In any case, I have no idea and am in no hurry to try it myself!
 

calc7

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But let's say you took a Virgin train from Watford Junction - but held a London Terminals - Birmingham New Street single? Would they charge you another fare?
Surely that would merely be a case of starting short as these trains are pick-up at WFJ and hence advertised as departures to, typically, Wolverhampton.
 

Eagle

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But let's say you took a Virgin train from Watford Junction to Euston - but held a Birmingham New Street - London single? Would they charge you another fare?
Think you're confusing it, that's just starting short. (WFJ is pick-up only northbound.)

The relevant situation in this case would be if you tried to use a VT service from Watford to Euston, would you be charged for a fare from the last non-set-down station, which will usually be Coventry?
 

calc7

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I had it the wrong way round, yes! Updated my post :oops:
I'm not sure I know the answer to your new question. It seems a Coventry to London Terminals Single should be charged. But wait, you already have one of those (as long as it hasn't been used)!

Either way, it's an expensive way to get from Watford to London.
 

Urban Gateline

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How about boarding a Virgin Trains service at Watford Junction to get to Euston with a TFL staff pass? I'm sure it's been discussed before but I forgot the answer! :p
 

yorkie

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How about boarding a Virgin Trains service at Watford Junction to get to Euston with a TFL staff pass? I'm sure it's been discussed before but I forgot the answer! :p
You're right, it has. The thread is here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=51513


Mojo said:
There is an agreement between Virgin Trains and TfL that TfL staff passes are valid on Virgin Trains services between Watford Junction and Euston, when combined with another ticket.



So it doesn't appear to be valid on its own, therefore a Milton Keynes-Watford ticket would make it valid.
 

Mutant Lemming

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Either way, it's an expensive way to get from Watford to London.
If you had an anytime single (or return) Coventry to Euston and broke your journey at Watford Junction you could resume your journey later - potentially using a (much quicker) set down service for your journey on to Euston.
 

Eagle

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...potentially using a (much quicker) set down service for your journey on to Euston.
It's not quicker, though. VT and nonstop LM services (of which there are three an hour) take exactly the same time between Watford and London—18 minutes. Even services which call at Bushey and Wealdstone only take 22.



Of course if your ticket was a Virgin Trns only one, then it could get interesting...
 

Mutant Lemming

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It's not quicker, though. VT and nonstop LM services (of which there are three an hour) take exactly the same time between Watford and London—18 minutes. Even services which call at Bushey and Wealdstone only take 22.



Of course if your ticket was a Virgin Trns only one, then it could get interesting...
..well at least you could get a coffee or a beer if you caught VT and maybe a nicer seat.
 

calc7

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If you had an anytime single (or return) Coventry to Euston and broke your journey at Watford Junction you could resume your journey later - potentially using a (much quicker) set down service for your journey on to Euston.
Hmm, but wouldn't you need a ticket valid from the last station called at if joining a set-down only service?
You no longer have a ticket covering Coventry to Watford Junction as you'd have already used that bit earlier, so a new COV-EUS single is chargeable?
 

All Line Rover

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I'm extremely glad that people aren't allowed to use VT to travel being Watford and Euston. Having VT being used as a Milton Keynes commuter service is bad enough! (But bearable considering that VT must get a huge amount of revenue from it).
 

Mutant Lemming

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Hmm, but wouldn't you need a ticket valid from the last station called at if joining a set-down only service?
You no longer have a ticket covering Coventry to Watford Junction as you'd have already used that bit earlier, so a new COV-EUS single is chargeable?
You are probably right - should have said an All Line Rover as an example.
 

Deerfold

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I'm extremely glad that people aren't allowed to use VT to travel being Watford and Euston. Having VT being used as a Milton Keynes commuter service is bad enough! (But bearable considering that VT must get a huge amount of revenue from it).
Annoying for those who moved to Watford when you still could use them though. They suddenly had a much slower commuter service.

I'm not sure when it changed but I'm fairly sure I caught VT Euston - Watford in 2001.
 

calc7

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Annoying for those who moved to Watford when you still could use them though. They suddenly had a much slower commuter service.

I'm not sure when it changed but I'm fairly sure I caught VT Euston - Watford in 2001.
Aren't 2tph of LM non-stop from Watford, and so within a minute of Virgin's timings?
In any instance, only the xx23 WVH departure stops there now so not much of a "commuter" service!
 

Poggs

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Annoying for those who moved to Watford when you still could use them though. They suddenly had a much slower commuter service.

I'm not sure when it changed but I'm fairly sure I caught VT Euston - Watford in 2001.
I commuted daily WFJ-EUS from 1997 to 2008 and even in '97 there were signs warning that the Intercity services weren't available for journeys to Euston.
 

calc7

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Three tph, in fact, and the timings are nigh-on identical.
Coupled with the fact that you can (should you wish) alight from the front of the train (as a Standard Class passenger) and the distance to the tube and outside is closer from the typical LM platforms, it's probably quicker!
 

87015

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I commuted daily WFJ-EUS from 1997 to 2008 and even in '97 there were signs warning that the Intercity services weren't available for journeys to Euston.
For at least a timetable but probably a year (around 1998? - it was certainly pretty early on) Virgin did officially remove all the restrictions and allow all ticket holders to use services - as a highly lucrative ORCATS raid - before going back to usual.

It was usually OK to have a quick word with the guard and get on/off anyway, I've a good few Euston-Watford and v/v moves in the book and never any hassle.
 

talltim

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It's not quicker, though. VT and nonstop LM services (of which there are three an hour) take exactly the same time between Watford and London—18 minutes. Even services which call at Bushey and Wealdstone only take 22.
It would be quicker if you didn't have to wait for the next train
 
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