Excessing from Super Off Peak to Off Peak

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Fiyero, 10 Jul 2019.

  1. Fiyero

    Fiyero Member

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    I bought tickets for me and my nephew to travel to London on Saturday, it was a bit complicated as my season ticket covers part of the journey for me, I wanted plus bus to get us to the station and to use a rail travel voucher. I got a bit flustered and got Super off peak when I think I might need off peak (hoping to arrive before 12 not after it, I concentrated so much on the restrictions leaving London I got that bit wrong). Is it a lot of bother to excess it? Can I do it with the guard or would I need to sort it out before then (I'm thinking get my nephew to a seat and seek out the guard).
    It might not be needed depending what my nephew wants to do in London!
    Thanks
     
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  3. SussexMan

    SussexMan Member

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    I thought the restrictions only applied Mon to Fri.
     
  4. asharpe

    asharpe Member

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  5. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    What’s the actual journey. There are some weekend restrictions on some flows.
     
  6. Fiyero

    Fiyero Member

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    It changed a few years ago I think, Off Peak and Super Off Peak but no anytime.
    That's the news I was hoping for, I don't want to make a fuss and sort it out in advance and end up missing the train anyway!

    I'm Winchester to London, my nephew Eastleigh to London
     
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    If you get there. A PF or prosecution is I believe not relevant (you can I think only be charged the difference) however you may not get past a barrier and do not have an entitlement to be let through in order to purchase on board. So you do need to plan to have time to excess before boarding, so you might as well do it before boarding!

    It does appear that the flows involved carry a "no arrival at London Terminals before 12" on Saturday.
     
  8. Fiyero

    Fiyero Member

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    Unless they build them quickly no barriers at Eastleigh, If I have time I may brave the ticket office but it is so noisy around there - hence me getting flustered in the first place
     
  9. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    There are at Winchester though.

    You won't get an argument about excessing a whole ticket from Super Off Peak to Off Peak, it's a common thing to do and even the most incompetent ticket office staff (think ones with a lot of yellow paint somewhere in the North West) should be able to manage it with ease.
     
  10. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Back when ticketing was simple, restrictions only applied Mondays to Fridays. But these days, restrictions can apply at weekends too :( Booking sites take into account the (electronic) restriction data when you book; you can also look up the restriction for any fare at www.brfares.com

    A time restricted ticket can be excessed to a less restricted ticket; the excess is charged as the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate fare for the journey being made.
     
  11. Fiyero

    Fiyero Member

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    I have an annual season ticket Eastleigh - Winchester. I wish I'd just ignored that bit as I would have got the rest right!
     
  12. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Ah, I see. I thought he was boarding at a different place to you.
     
  13. JaJaWa

    JaJaWa Established Member

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    Penalty Fares can now be received for presenting an off peak ticket outside of its validity since they were updated last year.
     
  14. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    In which case the OP will need to do it before boarding assuming there is an opportunity to do so.
     
  15. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    If this happens, I'd like to hear about it, as it would be a breach of contract law.
     
  16. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    Charging more than the full difference would, of course, still be a bearch of NRCoT :p
     
  17. island

    island Established Member

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    It wouldn’t. The Penalty Fares Regulations are a law, and the NRCoT are terms of a contract. Law overrides contracts.

    (Even if both were laws, a law cannot break the law – where two laws contradict one another, there are several rules of interpretation applied. The relevant one here is that the newer law (the Penalty Fares Regulations) is deemed to have implicitly repealed as much of the older law as it contradicts.)
     
  18. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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  19. furlong

    furlong Established Member

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    The contract is surely incorporated into the regulations implicitly:The regulations use the term ''valid ticket' and to determine whether or not a ticket is valid you cannot avoid reading what the contract allows you to do. Plus you have wider 'abuse of process' considerations that might be brought into play if a company attempted to prosecute (or penalise) someone for doing something the company had said it was OK to do.
     
    Last edited: 13 Jul 2019 at 02:32
  20. Fiyero

    Fiyero Member

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    Update time, I went to the ticket office, said I've done it wrong and need to excess from super off peak to off peak only to be told that the tickets were invalid, I should have bought myself a ticket from Eastleigh too even though my annual pass covers Eastleigh to Winchester. I asked if that had changed as I was sure I didn't have to (what if I wanted to take my nephew to Winchester for example?). I was told no, I have to buy a ticket for the same journey.
    I said that I disagree but can we do whatever I need to get it correct and had the tickets thrown back at me and was told to sort it out at London!
     
  21. island

    island Established Member

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    That’s a nonsense, but at least if you’ve been told that you can sort it at London that would count as permission to travel. Note down the staff member’s name and appearance if you can as disputes may arise later. And then try to get your ticket from the guard on board.
     
  22. Fiyero

    Fiyero Member

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    The lovely guard Liam said he wasnt certain which interpretation was correct but was happy to excess the tickets I held
     
  23. Fiyero

    Fiyero Member

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    It’s been bugging me all day. I need to know if I was right or wrong.
    Thinking it through if I had a Winchester to London gold card it would be crazy to say I had to buy myself a ticket for my whole journey to bring my nephew from Eastleigh to London. I know sound logic and actual policies aren’t always friendly bedfellows but I need to know!
     
  24. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    You do not need a ticket to cover the whole of your journey as your season ticket covers part of it.

    Only your son needed a ticket for the while journey and he had one, abet not the off peak one you wished him to have.
     
  25. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The Gold Card T&Cs make specific mention of this being allowed, don't they?
     
  26. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Indeed they do
    You were right.

    While many ticket clerks are excellent (there are some on this forum!) the reality is that for some of these people it's just a job that they do not like doing, and want to get out of doing, and they just make things up to get rid of people and pass on complex requests to someone else.

    Your experience is not as uncommon as it should be. I wouldn't worry about it.
     

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