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Exeter to Cambridge via Birmingham

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Richard_B

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Hi. I think is a stupid question but with fines/prosecution for non valid tickets I'd like to double check that it's valid just in case I'm wrong.

I want to travel from Exeter, either St James Park or Central to Cambridge on a super off peak return.
This should be the link to the brfares of it http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=EXD&dest=CBG&rlc=YNG&rte=842&ldn=1&tkt=SSR

My question is can you confirm that this ticket is 100% valid via Birmingham New Street. And if so, what are the time restrictions on going via Bham.

(For the record, I need the flexibility of not advance tickets so if anyone is inclined to try and find a cheaper way on advances please don't bother. But if there is a cheaper way on flexible tickets I'd be very interested :) )

Thanks in advance
Rich
 
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Master29

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No sorry its not a valid route. :cry:

Is there a particular reason you are going via Birmingham? If not you may find it cheaper via London. The system doesn`t seem to let us use that route so you might have to get separate tickets.
 

Paul Kelly

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Exeter to March is permitted via Birmingham. But the fare is accordingly much more expensive.
 

robbeech

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Interestingly if you search for a ticket on a Sunday and put BHM in the via box it throws it up as OK, though it takes the best part of a lunar month. As it still involves going to Euston and back. This makes me believe you'd get hassle from such a ticket.
 

Richard_B

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mods please close the thread I have now properly looked at the routing point map offering and am amazed I thought such and option would be viable.
Thanks to all replies.
 

Paul Kelly

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Interestingly if you search for a ticket on a Sunday and put BHM in the via box it throws it up as OK, though it takes the best part of a lunar month. As it still involves going to Euston and back. This makes me believe you'd get hassle from such a ticket.
Which date is that? I can only think it must be a bug in the NRE journey planner misinterpreting a map easement somewhere.
 
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najaB

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In this particular case is there something wrong with the yellow pages? The only permitted route from Exeter Group to Cambridge is 'LONDON'. Surely it should be the routes to London and the routes from London to Cambridge?

If you use, for example, Exeter Group to Milton Keynes it lists 'LONDON PB+TV'.
 

John @ home

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In this particular case is there something wrong with the yellow pages?
I don't think so.
The only permitted route from Exeter Group to Cambridge is 'LONDON'.
The handling of routeing code "LONDON" is explained in the National Routeing Guide.
National Routeing Guide - Instructions

If the routeing code is "LONDON", for all journeys via London you will need to cross reference routeing codes applicable "to London" with the code for the "from London" leg of the journey.

If the routeing code is "LONDON", journeys include the cost of cross-London transfer either by London Underground or Thameslink services. In all cases the transfer points should be along the correct line of route given by the ‘permitted route’ map combinations.

http://iblocks-rg-publication.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/nrg_instructions.pdf
Surely it should be the routes to London and the routes from London to Cambridge?
Yes. The routeing code is "LONDON" means that the passenger may take any permitted route from the origin to an appropriate London Terminals station, followed by any permitted route from an appropriate London Terminals station to the destination.
If you use, for example, Exeter Group to Milton Keynes it lists 'LONDON PB+TV'.
Yes. Unlike Exeter - Cambridge, travel via Birmingham is permitted with an Exeter - Milton Keynes ticket. In addition to travel via London, routeing code PB+TV allows:
  • PB: Exeter Group - Bristol Group - Birmingham Group - Lichfield or Tamworth.
  • TV: Lichfield or Tamworth - Nuneaton - Rugby - Milton Keynes, with optional diversions via Coventry and/or Northampton.
I think the omission of a link Birmingham Group - Coventry via Birmingham International is a mistake. It is perverse to allow Exeter Group - Birmingham Group - Tamworth - Nuneaton - Coventry - Milton Keynes, but not to allow Exeter Group - Birmingham Group - Birmingham International - Coventry - Milton Keynes.

As it happens, Virgin Trains East Coast will sell tickets with reservations via Birmingham International, so if I wanted to travel Exeter - Birmingham International - Milton Keynes I would use that site.
 

SickyNicky

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As it happens, Virgin Trains East Coast will sell tickets with reservations via Birmingham International, so if I wanted to travel Exeter - Birmingham International - Milton Keynes I would use that site.

Surely that's because the route on such a ticket is VIA GLOUCESTER. Because the through route isn't permitted, the journey planner is splitting routes at Gloucester, and both sub-routes are valid (through train to Gloucester and shortest route from Gloucester to Milton Keynes). This is all perfectly normal and correct.
 

robbeech

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If you got to NRE and Put in Exeter to Cambridge for travel via BHM for today (Sunday) then it gives you a valid ticket that's Exeter to Birmingham then back to Euston then across to KGX and up to Cambridge.
However NRE can't seem to find a return journey that's valid so suggests buying multiple singles.

My limited knowledge of the routeing guide says no, not in a million years, and I'm fairly convinced you'd have alsorts of hassle on your way. If you go in the trainline app (I use it for finding prices and times as I find t quick to use, although I don't use it to buy) then the same applies, if you put in Exeter (any) to Cambridge vis Birmingham TODAY (Sunday) it'll happily give you the route stated above, and sell you a return it seems. However if you flip the to and from over it won't let you.
 

Paul Kelly

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What an interesting thread this is turning out to be.
If you got to NRE and Put in Exeter to Cambridge for travel via BHM for today (Sunday) then it gives you a valid ticket that's Exeter to Birmingham then back to Euston then across to KGX and up to Cambridge.
Yes, I can reproduce that too. If you click on "Other tickets" below the price and then "Other valid routes", it shows you that it thinks there are three different routeing guide easements applying to this journey, so it has obviously got confused and is misinterpreting one of them (perhaps the last one - see attached screenshot) to allow travel via Birmingham.
 

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Paul Kelly

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Surely that's because the route on such a ticket is VIA GLOUCESTER. Because the through route isn't permitted, the journey planner is splitting routes at Gloucester, and both sub-routes are valid (through train to Gloucester and shortest route from Gloucester to Milton Keynes). This is all perfectly normal and correct.
Perfectly normal in that it's the only sane way an electronic journey planner can handle the situation, yes, but not really correct! The routeing guide says you can only do this if the via station doesn't lie on any permitted routes. But as John pointed out above, Gloucester does lie on a permitted route (the one via Tamworth). But the journey planners have no way of easily determining this (there is no computer program that can calculate and display all permitted routes for a given journey; it's a mind-boggling task) so they all apply the heuristic that they can split at the via station if the route isn't permitted for any reason.

The other interesting aspect to this is that the through Exeter to Birmingham trains don't technically go via Gloucester, although they pass nearby Barnwood Junction, which the ATOC timetable data associates with Gloucester - this was discussed in another thread recently: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2690301&postcount=13
 
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