Expanding Merseyrail/Metrolink/T&W Metro

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Waverley125

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ok, so always been interested in very definitely urban metro-style railways, particularly those in the north of England. So here's some expansion ideas.

Merseyrail

Ormskirk-Preston
Kirkby-Wigan Wallgate
Kirkby-Bootle New Strand
Bidston-Wrexham Central
West Kirkby-Hooton via Heswall & Neston (Wirral Loop)
Ellesmere Port-Runcorn North
Hunts Cross-Bootle New Strand/Aintree (Outer Circle)
Albert Dock-Sandhills via Edge Hill (Inner Circle)

Metrolink

Radcliffe-Bolton
Eccles-Leigh
Eccles-Bolton
Eccles-Wigan
St Werbergh's Road-Fallowfield
Bolton-Bury

Tyne & Wear Metro

Tyne Dock-East Boldon (South Shields-Sunderland)
Pelaw-Durham via Washington
South Hylton-Shiney Row (Sunderland-Durham)
Columbia-Chester le Street
Manors-Percy Main via St Anthonys
Northumberland Park-Newbiggin by the Sea/Blyth/Morpeth
New Hartley-Monkseaton (Blyth/Newbiggin/Morpeth-North Shields)
Airport-Ponteland
Gateshead-Wylam Bridge (coupled with reopening Central-Wylam as heavy rail)
 
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142094

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Tyne & Wear Metro

Tyne Dock-East Boldon (South Shields-Sunderland)
Pelaw-Durham via Washington
South Hylton-Shiney Row (Sunderland-Durham)
Columbia-Chester le Street
Manors-Percy Main via St Anthonys
Northumberland Park-Newbiggin by the Sea/Blyth/Morpeth
New Hartley-Monkseaton (Blyth/Newbiggin/Morpeth-North Shields)
Airport-Ponteland
Gateshead-Wylam Bridge (coupled with reopening Central-Wylam as heavy rail)

I've leave GM and Merseyside to other posters as Tyne and Wear is my area. Tyne Dock - East Boldon is probably the most likely new section of line, being both a good link from South Shields to Sunderland and a strategic route if there are problems between Hebburn and Simonside. Probably wouldn't cost a great deal of money, and could have a new station in between (may also be possible to convert Brockley Whins into some sort of triangular junction station).

Pelaw - Durham is unlikely. Any expansion that goes across the Tyne and Wear border will need co-opertaion between neighbouring local authorities, and in many cases their focus on rail transport is limited. The more likely solution is for Network Rail to reopen the Leamside Line and heavy rail to serve Washington, with the possibility of a Metro extension after that. Same goes for an expansion to Ashington or Blyth.

Manors - Percy Main. The area around Walker Road and St. Anthony's has poor transport links, but think it would struggle to provide enough patronage for the Metro to be viable. The line used to be mainly for the industries along the Tyne but they have all but gone now, so would be very limited. Some of the route also runs very close to current Metro line near Wallsend, so could lead to abstraction from those areas.

Airport - Ponteland. Would need some sort of tunnelling, and I doubt if the population of Ponteland and Darras Hall would use the Metro that much. Those that do drive to Callerton Parkway, and thus get around Airport being in zone C.
 

Waverley125

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I agree Pelaw-Durham is less likely than other schemes, but I think it'd be a good scheme if you consider the Leamside Line is extant to northwest Durham, and the viaduct over the Wear is still in place. It'd give a great alternative line into Durham from Gateshead/Sunderland, competing with buses and taking pressure off of congested roads. With Ashington & Blyth, a Metro link will connect in much better than new heavy rail services, though an upgrade of the ECML through Cramlington is required. That said, a sensible HS2 plan should take all the fast Edinburgh-Newcastle traffic off of it.

I agree the Walker Road/St Anthonys area is run down, but that's exactly what transport projects are good for in terms of regeneration. It's one of those areas that people have no reason to go to, and is difficult to get into. Public transport would help with that, as well as providing a diversionary route on the main coastline.
 

Stats

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I like some of those ideas and the idea of expanding rail use in the North East, for which I think demand is heavily surpressed. But many of those routes would be more suited to an suburban heavy rail metro operation rather than an extension of the existing Metro system and I would be opposed to any such extensions on the existing system. Indeed, my preference would be for the existing Metro to be converted back to heavy rail as it restricts the opportunities for rail development in tyneside, wearside and the neighbouring districts.

One route not on your list is Northumberland Park - Percy Main. This route goes directly past Cobalt Business Park, and Silverlink Shopping Park where stations could be provided. It always pains me going through Cobalt on the bus how just about every inch of space between the offices is tarmaced over and filled with cars. It's so depressing. A station here would hopefully reduce this car dependency, especially if connected to Blyth and Ashington.
 

142094

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It would be very hard to convert the current Metro system back to full heavy rail standards, and indeed the thing that would stop it is the loading gauge issues in tunnels. The Metro was principally designed to have many stations to increase the market served, but have fast accelerating trains in between short distances. I can't think of any other system that has stations as close together for most of the network, apart from other light rail/underground stations.

The other problems I didn't mention before are that Nexus are currently focussed on getting the current system back to standard before any expansions are looked at, and also the current rolling stock fleet is being used to its maximum capacity, so there would need to be additional rolling stock to provide the extra capacity when new routes open.
 

Waverley125

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Given the main stations in Newcastle City Centre are overbored, and most other platforms could be lengthened, I don't see a problem in seeking to move to 4-car fixed unit operation (replacing current pairs of units) that could themselves be paired (i.e. 8 car total length) at peak times.
 

142094

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Given the main stations in Newcastle City Centre are overbored, and most other platforms could be lengthened, I don't see a problem in seeking to move to 4-car fixed unit operation (replacing current pairs of units) that could themselves be paired (i.e. 8 car total length) at peak times.

There are certain sections where clearance is a problem, which is why the Tamper that Nexus Rail own had to be specially made to a slightly smaller loading gauge. There is then also the curve on the Manors ECS curve which is very tight.
 
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ok, so always been interested in very definitely urban metro-style railways, particularly those in the north of England. So here's some expansion ideas.

Merseyrail

Ormskirk-Preston
Kirkby-Wigan Wallgate
Bidston-Wrexham Central
West Kirkby-Hooton via Heswall & Neston (Wirral Loop)
Ellesmere Port-Runcorn North
Hunts Cross-Bootle New Strand (Outer Circle)
Albert Dock-Sandhills via Edge Hill (Inner Circle)

Metrolink

Radcliffe-Bolton
Eccles-Leigh
Eccles-Bolton
Eccles-Wigan
St Werbergh's Road-Fallowfield
Bolton-Bury

Tyne & Wear Metro

Tyne Dock-East Boldon (South Shields-Sunderland)
Pelaw-Durham via Washington
South Hylton-Shiney Row (Sunderland-Durham)
Columbia-Chester le Street
Manors-Percy Main via St Anthonys
Northumberland Park-Newbiggin by the Sea/Blyth/Morpeth
New Hartley-Monkseaton (Blyth/Newbiggin/Morpeth-North Shields)
Airport-Ponteland
Gateshead-Wylam Bridge (coupled with reopening Central-Wylam as heavy rail)

I like the Ellesmere Port to Runcorn but I assume we would then be talking dual voltage units?
 

sprinterguy

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Given the main stations in Newcastle City Centre are overbored, and most other platforms could be lengthened, I don't see a problem in seeking to move to 4-car fixed unit operation (replacing current pairs of units) that could themselves be paired (i.e. 8 car total length) at peak times.
From what I recall, the platforms at the underground stations beneath Newcastle city centre were designed to accomodate three Metrocars, totalling a length of 83.4 metres. Lengthening all the above ground platforms that require it to this length would be an extensive undertaking. And that is only the length of a single 4 x 20m EMU, even if they could be accomodated in the restricted areas of the loading gauge as 142094 describes.
 

Waverley125

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I like the Ellesmere Port to Runcorn but I assume we would then be talking dual voltage units?

potentially, unless the cutting through Runcorn could be widened to 4 lines. Either way, there's certainly space for south-facing bays at the west side of Runcorn North station.

It might be prudent to use OHL east of Helsby to future-proof against electrification of the North Wales coast line for WCML Chester & TPE services through WBQ to Holyhead.
 
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potentially, unless the cutting through Runcorn could be widened to 4 lines. Either way, there's certainly space for south-facing bays at the west side of Runcorn North station.

It might be prudent to use OHL east of Helsby to future-proof against electrification of the North Wales coast line for WCML Chester & TPE services through WBQ to Holyhead.

We can only dream on.
 

Waverley125

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As in Merseyrail expansion? Or Transpennine going to Holyhead? If the latter I don't think it's that far fetched. With plans for 5, or even 6, trains per hour between Manchester & Leeds, they'll have to go somewhere, and that can't all be round the Ordsall Chord to the Airport. I'd hope to see 2 through to Airport, 2 through to Liverpool and then 1 each to Holyhead & Shrewsbury. Putting Warrington Bank Quay, Chester & the north Wales Coast towns onto the TP map would be very good for them, as would bringing in Shrewsbury, and 1-change journeys to Mid & South Wales for much of the north of England.
 

fgwrich

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From what I recall, the platforms at the underground stations beneath Newcastle city centre were designed to accomodate three Metrocars, totalling a length of 83.4 metres. Lengthening all the above ground platforms that require it to this length would be an extensive undertaking. And that is only the length of a single 4 x 20m EMU, even if they could be accomodated in the restricted areas of the loading gauge as 142094 describes.

I was actually wondering the other day actually whether these would be suitible for the Metro? Although maybe not so much after the length issue unless you reduced most 4 car services down to 3 car.

Roughly 72 M for a 4 car MX3000 - 54.14 M for a standard 3 car. So would having a 4 car 72 metre length EMU work for the Metro?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_MX3000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrzCZxS5oeo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IABza2CNm-E

(You might have gathered i quite like the design of these Porsche / Siemens MX3000s)
 
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142094

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From what I recall, the platforms at the underground stations beneath Newcastle city centre were designed to accomodate three Metrocars, totalling a length of 83.4 metres. Lengthening all the above ground platforms that require it to this length would be an extensive undertaking. And that is only the length of a single 4 x 20m EMU, even if they could be accomodated in the restricted areas of the loading gauge as 142094 describes.

That's right, all the underground stations have room for three-cars but would need the removal of a partition wall at one end of the platforms. Unfortunately at some stations Nexus decided to stick some electrical equipment in this space, which would need to be removed (i.e. Jesmond). The best example to look at is Haymarket, where due to the location of the lift, the whole of platform two is open and can easily accomdate a 3-car set.
 

ReverendFozz

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Tyne & Wear Metro

Tyne Dock-East Boldon (South Shields-Sunderland)
Pelaw-Durham via Washington
South Hylton-Shiney Row (Sunderland-Durham)
Columbia-Chester le Street
Manors-Percy Main via St Anthonys
Northumberland Park-Newbiggin by the Sea/Blyth/Morpeth
New Hartley-Monkseaton (Blyth/Newbiggin/Morpeth-North Shields)
Airport-Ponteland
Gateshead-Wylam Bridge (coupled with reopening Central-Wylam as heavy rail)

Would a Sunderland-South Shields be worth it though, would it be competitive with the Bus Services, Go North East already run a 10 minute service between Park Lane and South Shields and Stagecoach runs a bus about every 6/7 minutes to Shields, so I cant see it being economically viable, GNEs 35 will always be much quicker than a Sunderland-Shields Metro, it takes 25-30 minutes, Stagecoach about 5-10 minutes longer, I just cannot see the metro being able to get close to the kind of time GNE offers, although it could possibly be done as another way to Newcastle through Pelaw( also through Brockley Whins and Fellgate) from South Shields with a new station at Whiteleas(whether that would work I don't know)

Another idea I like is the Northumberland Park-North Shields for Cobalt and Silverlink, if that idea ever went ahead, would it be worth extending park and ride facilities at Four Lane Ends with new park and ride facilities somewhere near the Tyne Tunnel somewhere around East Howden or Percy Main...

As for taking the Metro down to Durham and Chester-Le-Street, NO, for starters would Durham County Council happily co-operate with Nexus(Same with Northumberland by going to Morpeth) and anyway I would prefer the Leamside Line to be reopened for Mainline Services(Tyne-Tees) and freight(Tyne Dock and Nissan) but the Metro could extend from South Hylton to a new transport hub at Penshaw or Washington...

Another Metro idea I have seen in the past is the idea of extending the Metro to Ryhope and even Seaham in the past with stations in Hendon and Grangetown
 

Sir_Clagalot

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Metro, South Hylton-Washington-Pelaw and there you have a 'Wearside Loop' to compliment the North Tyneside loop. OK you'd have to bridge the A19 and build a new curve to get it onto the Victoria Viaduct but still be useful. How about extending out from St James' round and down to the Metro Centre...
 

142094

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Would a Sunderland-South Shields be worth it though, would it be competitive with the Bus Services,

Perhaps it wouldn't be as valuable to those going from South Shields to Sunderland, but it would be for those going to intermediate stations, or ones past Sunderland towards South Hylton. There is usually a good deal of people getting off at Pelaw to change for Sunderland/South Hylton, and opening the stretch between Tyne Dock and Brockley Whins would certain make certain journeys more attractive by Metro.
 

sprinterguy

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I was actually wondering the other day actually whether these would be suitible for the Metro? Although maybe not so much after the length issue unless you reduced most 4 car services down to 3 car.

Roughly 72 M for a 4 car MX3000 - 54.14 M for a standard 3 car. So would having a 4 car 72 metre length EMU work for the Metro?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_MX3000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrzCZxS5oeo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IABza2CNm-E

(You might have gathered i quite like the design of these Porsche / Siemens MX3000s)
Why not just stick with the 3-car formation already used by those trains? A 54.14 metre length for a 3-car formation is very close to the length of a pair of Metrocars as currently operated (55.6 metres). They could be introduced to service with no alterations required at all. I do like the look of those MX3000s, both inside and out, and if the TW Metro was currently seeking new rolling stock then I would be quite enthusiastic about procuring a fleet of them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Metro, South Hylton-Washington-Pelaw and there you have a 'Wearside Loop' to compliment the North Tyneside loop. OK you'd have to bridge the A19 and build a new curve to get it onto the Victoria Viaduct but still be useful.
It would certainly be a good idea. Extra paths would be required through the Metro "core" from Pelaw to South Gosforth, which surely wouldn't be too taxing seeing as peak time extra services to Pelaw currently operate. It wouldn't be impossible to still utilise the Leamside line for heavy rail services at a later date either (diesel services only of course), with heavy rail sharing tracks with the Metro services. And of course there's no guarantee that the Leamside line will ever be reinstated for heavy rail services, so it would be good to have at least something done with at least part of the route, and bring rail services back to Washington.
 

lancastrian

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ok, so always been interested in very definitely urban metro-style railways, particularly those in the north of England. So here's some expansion ideas.

Merseyrail

Ormskirk-Preston
Kirkby-Wigan Wallgate
Kirkby-Bootle New Strand
Bidston-Wrexham Central
West Kirkby-Hooton via Heswall & Neston (Wirral Loop)
Ellesmere Port-Runcorn North
Hunts Cross-Bootle New Strand/Aintree (Outer Circle)
Albert Dock-Sandhills via Edge Hill (Inner Circle)

Metrolink

Radcliffe-Bolton
Eccles-Leigh
Eccles-Bolton
Eccles-Wigan
St Werbergh's Road-Fallowfield
Bolton-Bury

Tyne & Wear Metro

Tyne Dock-East Boldon (South Shields-Sunderland)
Pelaw-Durham via Washington
South Hylton-Shiney Row (Sunderland-Durham)
Columbia-Chester le Street
Manors-Percy Main via St Anthonys
Northumberland Park-Newbiggin by the Sea/Blyth/Morpeth
New Hartley-Monkseaton (Blyth/Newbiggin/Morpeth-North Shields)
Airport-Ponteland
Gateshead-Wylam Bridge (coupled with reopening Central-Wylam as heavy rail)

I know very little about the Metro System in the North East, but I have strong opinions about the expansion of both Merseyrail and Metrolink. Here are my views:-

Merseyrail.

Ormskirk-Preston
I doubt this is a good idea. Yes extend from Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge, via the reopened Burscough South Curve. Reopening the north curve will enable a Preston to Southport service which would be of greater value.

Kirkby-Wigan Wallgate
This should be done, as soon as possible in my opinion

Kirkby-Bootle New Strand
This is also a good idea and would be very beneficial.

Bidston-Wrexham Central
Again this should be done as soon as possible.

West Kirkby-Hooton via Heswall & Neston (Wirral Loop)
This is a very impractical idea, the route is now mainly a footpath/bridlepath. The line has been closed for years and I believe that the trackbed has been built on in West Kirby.

Ellesmere Port-Runcorn North
Ellesmere Port to Hooton, Yes. To Runcorn very unlikely.

Hunts Cross-Bootle New Strand/Aintree (Outer Circle)
Albert Dock-Sandhills via Edge Hill (Inner Circle)

Both these line are very unlikely, although an extension from Hunts Cross to Warrington might be a practical consideration.

Metrolink.

Radcliffe-Bolton
This route was supposed to be included in the Picc-Vicc Line plans, but the route through Radcliffe has been grratly compromised and built upon. Although it would be an excellent add-on to the Metrolink system, shortsightedness has made it almost impossible to be done.

Eccles-Leigh
This also would be a good idea. Leigh NEEDS to be rail conected to Manchester. This would be a far better means of doing this than the daft 'Busway' idea that is being floated at this time. If is is routed properly, then the Towns of Tyldesly, Mosley Common and Worsley would really benefit with a Metrolink service into central Manchester.

Eccles-Bolton
Even if you routed this via the old LNWR route, which has been blocked from about Farnworth into Bolton it would not actually benefit people from Bolton. You can be in Manchester in less than 20 minutes by heavy rail. If you went up the main Bolton to Manchester Road A666, which is very busy in the 'rush hour', trams would not be much better than the current bus service which can take as long as an hour. I know because I have been on them from time to time. Not a practical addition.

Eccles-Wigan
Again not a practical addition, the heavy rail service via both Bolton & Atherton, could be improved much cheaper and the service increased much quicker than building a seperate Tram route.

St Werbergh's Road-Fallowfield
Possible this might work if you continued past Fallowfield and terminated the trams at either Guide Bridge, to extend them through Hyde and terminated them at Marple Rose Hill. This would release cappacity on heavy rail services running into Piccadilly from Chinley & Sheffield.

Bolton-Bury
Although the old rail route is relatively unblocked, I don't really see any benefit to doing this.

In summing up there are some very good ideas, which in any sensable, well run country would have already been done, but here in Great Britain no chance sadly. Some of the others are pipe dreams, which are never likely to happen. What we need to do is to push for those which have a good chance to succeed, and hopefully they will happen one day.

Don't hold your breath though.
 

Polarbear

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Merseyrail

Ormskirk-Preston
Kirkby-Wigan Wallgate
Kirkby-Bootle New Strand
Bidston-Wrexham Central
West Kirkby-Hooton via Heswall & Neston (Wirral Loop)
Ellesmere Port-Runcorn North
Hunts Cross-Bootle New Strand/Aintree (Outer Circle)
Albert Dock-Sandhills via Edge Hill (Inner Circle)

Turning back to the proposals for Merseyrail;

Ormskirk - Preston has been suggested for years & little has happened unfortunately. An alternative may be to electrify Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge & have an interchange there with a new Southport - Preston service?

Kirkby - Wigan Wallgate is logical on paper but due to political will (lack of), is unlikely to happen. However, a spur from this line to Skelmersdale would be a better bet (with interchange there onto a diesel service to Manchester).

The line from Bootle to Aintree has been looked at in the past, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that it's felt that it would not justify enough traffic on it's own. The proposal I saw was to run a diesel service every 30 minutes from Lime St via Edge Hill, Anfield, Bootle, & Aintree (with some additional new stations) but that idea seems to have gone very quiet.

Bidston - Wrexham is a line that the Welsh Assembly are keen to make more use of. 3rd rail electrification has been costed but the estimates were very high! My suggestion would be to build a spur around the site of the erstwhile Hope Exchange station, rebuild the line up to Mold & electrify from Bidston to there. A diesel service could then run from Mold to Wrexham & maybe beyond (though that would leave Wrexham Central out on a limb).

West Kirby to Hooton was once a railway to 1956 (closed for freight 1962) & is now the very popular Wirral Country Park! ;) Whilst there has been some housing development along the area of this route since it closed, it is a high car ownership area & I can't personally see any case for reopening this line.

Finally, Ellesmere Port to Runcorn is not going to be juiced up any time soon as the owners of the oil refinery it runs through are less than keen.
 

John55

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ok, so always been interested in very definitely urban metro-style railways, particularly those in the north of England. So here's some expansion ideas.

Merseyrail

Ormskirk-Preston
Kirkby-Wigan Wallgate
Kirkby-Bootle New Strand
Bidston-Wrexham Central
West Kirkby-Hooton via Heswall & Neston (Wirral Loop)
Ellesmere Port-Runcorn North
Hunts Cross-Bootle New Strand/Aintree (Outer Circle)
Albert Dock-Sandhills via Edge Hill (Inner Circle)

The first 5 are not very urban but let’s not worry about that.

I am assuming you are talking Merseyrail Electrics here.

Ormskirk-Preston Given the traffic likely to be on offer is there any real point in going beyond Burscough? Burscough is a fair sized place and extension of the 3rd rail into Burscough Bridge to connect with Wigan-Southport or Preston-Southport seems a good idea but there is an awful lot of nothing north of Burscough.

Kirkby-Wigan Wallgate The most recent proposals supported by Lancashire CC & Merseytravel are to extend the electric services to Skelmersdale via a new railway from Rainford Junction where connections to Wigan would be maintained. Again this seems a much better idea than going to Wigan although I suppose in a world of infinite money you could do both.

Bidston – Birkenhead. Fine if there is any money.

West Kirkby-Hooton via Heswall & Neston (Wirral Loop) Surely this is an alternative to developing the Wrexham – Birkenhead/Liverpool service. Given the railway service was abandoned so early one has to be doubtful about its viability. Heswall & Neston to Birkenhead/Liverpool via West Kirby or Hooton is a long way round compared to other modes. I suggest developing the Birkenhead – Wrexham line with good access to Heswall and Neston is a better solution.

Hunts Cross to Bootle/Aintree. How are you thinking of getting to Bootle New Strand?
All previous ideas (since 1960) to use the old Loop Line have involved routes that turn towards the city centre at Broad Green. Do you really think there is any traffic around the complete old CLC route?

Albert Dock to Sandhills. How do you plan to get from Edge Hill to Sandhills? Would it not be much better to use the old Wapping Tunnel for the Edge Hill spur from Central Low Level.
 

Waverley125

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For the 'Wirral Loop', I think the growth of settlements in West Wirral probably makes the line more viable than it was when it closed, plus you have the Liverpool Uni campus to serve, which would certainly provide a decent amount of traffic.
 

Holly

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... Bidston – Birkenhead. Fine if there is any money.
West Kirkby-Hooton via Heswall & Neston (Wirral Loop) Surely this is an alternative to developing the Wrexham – Birkenhead/Liverpool service. Given the railway service was abandoned so early one has to be doubtful about its viability. ...
West Kirkby-Hooton was only ever single track. It has no modern utility for rail.

Bidston-Birkenhead???
Bidston-Wrexham perhaps. Overhead wires, either 25kVAC or Manchester Metrolink compatible. Third rail is too dangerous modernly for new lines outside dense urban areas.
 

John55

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West Kirkby-Hooton was only ever single track. It has no modern utility for rail.

Bidston-Birkenhead???
Bidston-Wrexham perhaps. Overhead wires, either 25kVAC or Manchester Metrolink compatible. Third rail is too dangerous modernly for new lines outside dense urban areas.

Wrexham- Birkenhead/Liverpool indeed.

If it is safe enough where there are lots of people why is 3rd rail too dangerous modernly(?) where there are fewer people?
 

Clip

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Whilst it has been many many years since I left Newcastle I am still always amazed at why no one really cares about sending the Metro to the West end and beyond. With Vickers now being closed there is the possibility of maybe a new depot being created there for any extra units in the future that would probably have to be built for any expansion of the Metro anywhere in the Nroth East - plus a nice boost of jobs in the area.


Or they could just let the poor folk of Scotswood and Benwell rot on buses like they have done for years. Because obviously talk about going into Durham and elsewhere south is a much better idea than actually trying to include a large chunk of Newcastle isnt it.
 

PR1Berske

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In the North West the expansion of Merseyrail from the west seems to be vital to 'balance', if not entirely counter-act, the expansion of TfGM from the east!

Realistic priorities would be, as mentioned above, getting some sort of Liverpool-Ormskirk-Burscough improvements, be they connected to Ormskirk-Skem scheme or not. This of course will mean examining, once and for all, the Burscough Curve(s). Lancs CC, however, don't think there's a financial case for the curves to be opened.
 

Waverley125

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Clip-one potential western expansion I had though of would be the re-opening of the Carlisle line's original alignment on the North Bank of the Tyne, most of which is clear. This would remove trains from the current alignment all the way out to Prudhoe. A new tunnel between Gateshead and Dunston station (possible via Bensham) would allow the entire Central-Wylam section to be converted to Metro.
 

Clip

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Aye that sounds a good idea but a tunnel seems a pretty expensive scheme really when a bridge would suffice. in fact theres the old railway bridge just down from Scotchy bridge which could be put to good use again. Though i think it carries utilities now doesnt it?
 

Waverley125

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Leeds, West Yorkshire
I really don't know the area well enough to make significant comment. But if you tunnel you can pass through the existing Gateshead Interchange, creating another big transport hub south of the river, as well as providing better connections off the Western line for the Coast.
 

Stats

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27 Sep 2009
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Whilst it has been many many years since I left Newcastle I am still always amazed at why no one really cares about sending the Metro to the West end and beyond.
I don't think that it is because nobody cares but that the only way to extend in to the west end would be extensive tunnelling or lots of demolition of peoples homes. Both would be too expensive for the north east.
 
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