Expansions for Scotland's rail network proposed

[Stopper]

Not the opposite of progress, that would mean that the service was worse than came before. Already (failures excepted) the trains have higher capacity, and this will further increase when the QS rebuild is complete. And the trains will be faster, just not more frequent.

The service is worse...? No Larbert/Stirling trains which people actually use, replaced by a service going to places nobody wants to go. The service going the other way to Edinburgh will also likely be single unit even at peak times. No frequency increase either. The opposite of progress.

 

[Hackneyite]

For the first time Cumbernauld, popn52,000, will have services to the capital city!
There are winners as well but we always hear from those who have lost out first!

 

[Stopper]

For the first time Cumbernauld, popn52,000, will have services to the capital city!
There are winners as well but we always hear from those who have lost out first!

Croy already serves Cumbernauld with Edinburgh services, and is actually in a more convenient location for most of the Cumbernauld housing. The Croy services are much faster and have by far longer trains.

 

[318266]

For the first time Cumbernauld, popn52,000, will have services to the capital city!
There are winners as well but we always hear from those who have lost out first!

Edinburgh Park gets a service to Glasgow via Falkirk. yay.

 

[Altnabreac]

The service is worse...? No Larbert/Stirling trains which people actually use, replaced by a service going to places nobody wants to go. The service going the other way to Edinburgh will also likely be single unit even at peak times. No frequency increase either. The opposite of progress.

Look we all know it is worse for the 85 people a day who go from Linlithgow to Stirling. But it is better for the 5,000 people a day who travel between Stirling and Edinburgh. Unfortunately for you, you're one of the 85 rather than one of the 5,000.

 

[Stopper]

Look we all know it is worse for the 85 people a day who go from Linlithgow to Stirling. But it is better for the 5,000 people a day who travel between Stirling and Edinburgh. Unfortunately for you, you're one of the 85 rather than one of the 5,000.

That’s not the point, the service at Linlithgow and Polmont is being passed off as an improvement when infact it’s quite the opposite.

Both stations (certainly Linlithgow) could have remained on the Dunblanes with the journey time still being reduced (also reducing congestion at Newbridge) , and possibly others removed as well. Or extra Stirling stoppers could have been run alongside the semi-fasts. To replace Larbert and Stirling with Cumbernauld and Gartcosh is absolutely unacceptable and is rightly being complained about heavily from Linlithgow & Polmont passengers. And sadly this will cause a lot of passengers from these two stations to go to the car.

 

[Altnabreac]

That’s not the point, the service at Linlithgow and Polmont is being passed off as an improvement when infact it’s quite the opposite.

Both stations (certainly Linlithgow) could have remained on the Dunblanes with the journey time still being reduced (also reducing congestion at Newbridge) , and possibly others removed as well. Or extra Stirling stoppers could have been run alongside the semi-fasts. To replace Larbert and Stirling with Cumbernauld and Gartcosh is absolutely unacceptable and is rightly being complained about heavily from Linlithgow & Polmont passengers. And sadly this will cause a lot of passengers from these two stations to go to the car.

Its an improvement for a large number of people and a downgrade for a small number of people. Overall that is an improvement for the majority. That's how life works I'm afraid.

 

[Carntyne]

Why? It'll take the same time, and you will have more chance of a seat.

 

[Stopper]

Its an improvement for a large number of people and a downgrade for a small number of people. Overall that is an improvement for the majority. That's how life works I'm afraid.

So electrics working the Dunblane stopper services wouldn’t have been an improvement on journey times, capacity and punctuality anyway?

 

[Stopper]

Why? It'll take the same time, and you will have more chance of a seat.

Already plenty chance of a seat on Dunblane services, it’s the E-G’s that are the problem for that. However the Cumbernauld services will likely be single unit all day due to lack of demand, resulting in the possibility of not actually getting a seat. Also, I’m pretty sure the service will take longer than currently.

 

[Altnabreac]

Why? It'll take the same time, and you will have more chance of a seat.

It's a downgrade for Linlithgow - Stirling passengers (like Stopper and 84 other people each day).
For the 2363 people who go from Linlithgow to Edinburgh each day and the 142 who go from Linlithgow to Edinburgh Park each day the journey times and frequencies are the same but they have more chance of getting a seat.
For the 747 who go from Linlithgow to Glasgow each day very little changes although there is a second (much slower) option via Cumbernauld but this isn't particularly useful.

But for the 5,000 or so who travel from Stirling area to Edinburgh each day they get a faster service with more capacity.

Overall there is a cumulative benefit.

 

[InOban]

The service is worse...? No Larbert/Stirling trains which people actually use, replaced by a service going to places nobody wants to go. The service going the other way to Edinburgh will also likely be single unit even at peak times. No frequency increase either. The opposite of progress.

You and I were specifically referring to the service between Linlithgow/Polmont and Glasgow. Of course the small number of passengers traveling to or from Stirling lose out. And if the demand from the Cumbernauld area is as low as you predict, your train to Edinburgh will have plenty of space, much more than at present.

 

[Stopper]

I don’t doubt there is a benefit for Stirling, but I think this could have been achieved without the removal of 2 very busy stations, the introduction of a service nobody asked for, and the increased congestion at Newbridge Junction....

 

[Stopper]

You and I were specifically referring to the service between Linlithgow/Polmont and Glasgow. Of course the small number of passengers traveling to or from Stirling lose out. And if the demand from the Cumbernauld area is as low as you predict, your train to Edinburgh will have plenty of space, much more than atpresent.

But this train will likely be a single unit?

 

[Altnabreac]

Already plenty chance of a seat on Dunblane services, it’s the E-G’s that are the problem for that. However the Cumbernauld services will likely be single unit all day due to lack of demand, resulting in the possibility of not actually getting a seat. Also, I’m pretty sure the service will take longer than currently.

Had a look at some fairly randomly chosen times on the Linlithgow - Edinburgh corridor. It's a mixed bag but looks like the majority of times are getting faster, specifically the Cumbernauld services are a good five minutes faster than the Dunblane / Alloa ones are currently.

The only area where there might be slower services is the peak Falkirk High - Linlithgow - Edinburgh services which may be slightly slower by 2/3 minutes. Unsurprisingly with an extra 2tph into Waverley the timetable reflects that all services are running at more similar speeds with the fastest services a little slower and the slowest services running faster. This should also help to smooth demand across the available services.

Linlithgow (from Dunblane current) services off peak
15 mins to Edinburgh Park
24 mins to Haymarket
29 mins to Waverley

Linlithgow (from Croy current) services off peak
17 mins to Haymarket
22 mins to Waverley

Linlithgow (from Croy current) services peak (8.06 am arrival)
16 mins to Haymarket
22 mins to Waverley

Linlithgow (from Alloa current) services peak (8.45am arrival)
12 mins to Edinburgh Park
17 mins to Haymarket
26 mins to Waverley

Linlithgow (from Cumbernauld Dec 2018) services off peak
10 mins to Edinburgh Park
17 mins to Haymarket
23 mins to Waverley

Linlithgow (from Croy Dec 2018) services off peak
16 mins to Haymarket
22 mins to Waverley

Linlithgow (from Cumbernauld Dec 2018) services peak (8.46am arrival)
10 mins to Edinburgh Park
16 mins to Haymarket
23 mins to Waverley

Linlithgow (from Croy Dec 2018) services peak (8.08 am arrival)
19 mins to Haymarket
26 mins to Waverley

 

[adrock1976]

I suggested in another thread a while ago (it may be the one in the Allocations, Diagrams, and Timetables section) a possible way to maintain the local links between Stirling and Polmont/Linlithgow could be to run a Stirling - Dalmeny or Inverkeithing via the direct line between Winchburgh Junction and Dalmeny.

This would avoid the congestion through Haymarket and Princes Street Gardens, maintain the existing links between Stirling and Polmont/Linlithgow, and with friendly connections at Linlithgow, would provide better journey opportunities from Glasgow to destinations in Fife too.

 

[318266]

Does anyone here notice that on RTT, it says that the Dumbarton - Cumbernauld service will be cut back to Springburn, presumably to create paths for the Glasgow - Edinburgh via Cumbernauld services? This will mean that Stepps and Gartcosh go from 3tph to Glasgow, to 2tph. The Cumbernauld - Milngavie/Dalmuir services will stay though, but that still means that Greenfauld and Cumbernauld go from 4tph to Glasgow, to 3tph.

 

[Stopper]

There should have been a Stirling-Edinburgh stopper to compliment the semi-fasts, rather than wasting another 2tph through Newbridge Jn on the Cumbernauld “white elephant” service. It would still increase Camelon and Falkirk Grahamston to 4tph EDB, and retain direct links from L&P to Stirling. The little used 1tph Queen Street to Grahamston service could remain as an electric.

 

[yorkie]

If anyone had any updates regarding the actual subject matter of this thread, i.e. the proposed reopenings, please contact us to arrange for the thread to be reopened.

If anyone wishes to discuss timetabling matters you are welcome to do so, but please use the timetabling section of the forum.

 

[och aye]

RAGES aren't too happy with the pace or rather, a lack of pace of the reopening of Reston station.

P.S.
Apologies in advance for posting about something that is on-topic.

Totally raging! Rail campaigners demand apology from First Minister amid delays reopening Reston Station

https://planetradio.co.uk/borders/l...inister-amid-delays-reopening-reston-station/

Rail campaigners are demanding a public apology from the First Minister for delays reopening Reston station.

It follows the admission from local MSP Paul Wheelhouse that train services are unlikely to return next year.

Tom Thorburn, who chairs the Rail Action Group for the East of Scotland (RAGES), points out they were promised a new station would be built in 2016.

At their recent AGM, Transport Scotland stated work will be carried out sometime over the next six years.

But, when asked if he is confident there will be no more delays, Mr Wheelhouse added next year might be "pushing things".

 

[Photohunter71]

It appears that the existing route to Loanhead and proposed Penicuik line are goosed. Driving past near the old Gilmerton station area, I have noticed the line via Danderhall at Gilmerton is being excavated and a new housing development is being built, This is opposite the current ongoing Miller homes development. That surely has now put paid to a Penicuik line?

 

[Ginaro]

It appears that the existing route to Loanhead and proposed Penicuik line are goosed. Driving past near the old Gilmerton station area, I have noticed the line via Danderhall at Gilmerton is being excavated and a new housing development is being built, This is opposite the current ongoing Miller homes development. That surely has now put paid to a Penicuik line?

I know there is work at Drum Street to create a ramp connecting to the cycle path which now runs from Shawfair Park to Loanhead, maybe that's it?

 

[Photohunter71]

I think that's the one! Much of the trackbed is there. This confirms that the possibility of a Penicuik branch using that particular route is a non starter.

 

[Ginaro]

I think that's the one! Much of the trackbed is there. This confirms that the possibility of a Penicuik branch using that particular route is a non starter.

Well there are also other obstacles to the east, namely the roads at Shawfair Avenue, the A6106, and the Borders railway before even getting to Millerhill Yard. And at the southern end you'd need to navigate your way around Roslin and through a golf course before getting to the north end of Penicuik.

 

[Stopper]

No word of Winchburgh station being built any time soon. Although considering the paltry service proposed, there maybe is no rush.

 

[och aye]

'Pass the parcel' over new railway station for East Linton

https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/...cel-over-new-railway-station-for-east-linton/

THE Scottish has been accused of playing “pass the parcel” with the decision of when a train station will return to East Linton.

A campaign has been ongoing for nearly two decades, with the earliest opening of the station thought to be 2021.

However, fears have repeatedly been raised that the timeline could change, with the opening of the station, along with one at Reston in the Scottish Borders, slipping further down the line.

Transport Scotland has stressed the plans remain “on schedule” and the commitment to the scheme is “unwavering”.

 

[Stopper]

Seems a long time that the East Linton/Reston openings have been talked about. Similar with Kintore, Dalcross & Winchburgh. Winchburgh should be ready to open on time for the December timetable change/electrification but no, still no sound of anything.

 

[MadMac]

Seems a long time that the East Linton/Reston openings have been talked about. Similar with Kintore, Dalcross & Winchburgh. Winchburgh should be ready to open on time for the December timetable change/electrification but no, still no sound of anything.

I believe Kintore is scheduled for December 2019. I think Boat of Kintore AHB becomes a MCB-OD crossing when the line gets doubled.

 

[adrock1976]

I believe Kintore is scheduled for December 2019. I think Boat of Kintore AHB becomes a MCB-OD crossing when the line gets doubled.

Could this be translated please?

It is long standing forum policy not to use abbreviations, acronyms, or jargon without first saying what it means.

 

[MadMac]

Could this be translated please?

It is long standing forum policy not to use abbreviations, acronyms, or jargon without first saying what it means.

Apologies Sir, was unaware.
AHB: Automatic Half-Barriers.
MCB-OD: Manually Controlled Barriers with Obstacle Detection.