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Experiences of TPE journeys on their new 'Nova' trains

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Bletchleyite

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The 185 doors also aren't quite wide enough for a 2 abreast boarding and alighting. 50x/31x are perhaps *just* wide enough, but it takes something like the Class 700 to achieve it fully, and even then as you say people crowding the door reduces it back again.
 
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sjpowermac

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The 185 doors also aren't quite wide enough for a 2 abreast boarding and alighting. 50x/31x are perhaps *just* wide enough, but it takes something like the Class 700 to achieve it fully, and even then as you say people crowding the door reduces it back again.
You seem to be flip-flopping a bit here. What, in your opinion, should the door arrangements have been for Mk5a?
 

Bletchleyite

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You seem to be flip-flopping a bit here. What, in your opinion, should the door arrangements have been for Mk5a?

For Mk5a they couldn't have been anything other than what they were, for the same reason as why the windows don't align with the seats - they are a follow on order of Caledonian Sleeper seated coaches with a different interior - for that to happen they had to be structurally the same, including a First Class window spacing (rather than the Standard based spacing of the WCML EMUs) and end doors.

For TPE, the Class 185 layout[1] is just about perfect, as it is for any regional express service. This has nothing to do with boarding several-abreast, but everything to do with ease of getting to/from seats and taking crowds with relative ease. The only problems with Class 185s for TPE relate to (a) being simple DMUs and (b) being 2 coaches too short.

[1] Excluding the stupid "ballroom" - 1st should have been between the cab end and half way up the saloon giving two compartments like a Class 321 with a dedicated vestibule, with the bog and wheelchair/bike area at the inner end per a 350.
 
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ashkeba

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Basically, the decision was in response to customer feedback and wanting to create an ‘InterCity’ environment:
Is end doors part of "InterCity" brand requirement in the UK? It isnot in NL, Poland or Switzerland, and probably others
 

sjpowermac

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Is end doors part of "InterCity" brand requirement in the UK? It isnot in NL, Poland or Switzerland, and probably others
I didn’t state that end doors were part of an ‘InterCity’ brand requirement. If you take a few minutes to watch the video, TPE explain fully there why they went for end doors.
Experiences of TPE journeys on their new 'Nova' trains

Since you mentioned Poland, the PKP EIP ‘Pendolino’ trains have end doors, as do all of the hauled stock, just the Flirts that are different.

Feel free to argue that doors in the saloon are better, I honestly couldn’t care less.
 
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talltim

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This team exist, albeit TPE run, less shouty and smaller - usually two people + dispatcher on Platform 16 until 1845. Unfortunately they had finished for the day when you arrived, as 1F76 is not 'known' as a busy service.
Typical privatisaion stupidity. Just have station staff, not TPE staff and EC staff, etc
 

Bletchleyite

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Typical privatisaion stupidity. Just have station staff, not TPE staff and EC staff, etc

In most cases the station operator provides dispatch staff for all TOCs, but some TOCs seem to prefer their own for some reason. It'll be interesting to see if First keep dedicated staff at MKC, for instance, rather than just contracting LNR to do it as Southern do.
 

ashkeba

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I didn’t state that end doors were part of an ‘InterCity’ brand requirement. If you take a few minutes to watch the video, TPE explain fully there why they went for end doors.[/URL]
"give them an experience like traveling on a big train" does not seem very full. Is the right video playing for me?

Since you mentioned Poland, the PKP EIP ‘Pendolino’ trains have end doors, as do all of the hauled stock, just the Flirts that are different.

Feel free to argue that doors in the saloon are better, I honestly couldn’t care less.
I don't think it's better or worse, which is why giving them as a feature or rewuirememt is very strange IMO.
 

sjpowermac

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"give them an experience like traveling on a big train" does not seem very full. Is the right video playing for me?


I don't think it's better or worse, which is why giving them as a feature or rewuirememt is very strange IMO.
Yes, of course it’s the right video. Seems clear enough to me. TPE have responded to customer feedback and decided that end doors are a feature that helps to promote an InterCity/big train feel. I agree with them. Feel free to disagree or find it strange. Again, I honestly couldn’t care less.
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes, of course it’s the right video. Seems clear enough to me. TPE have responded to customer feedback and decided that end doors are a feature that helps to promote an InterCity/big train feel. I agree with them. Feel free to disagree or find it strange. Again, I honestly couldn’t care less.

I think it certainly does promote that. However, TPE are not an InterCity[1][2] operation (despite the fact that their sometimes slightly arrogant attitude likes to shout that). What they are is a poshed-up regional express with heavy commuter loadings, and the Class 185 is more the sort of unit that is suitable for that in layout terms.

Of course TPE has used end doors before (158s), and these used to rack up delay minutes by the tens at Manchester in the peaks due to the slow boarding/alighting.

[1] I'm mostly thinking of unicentric InterCity type stuff - TPE is quite similar to XC, and XC too would be better off with doors at thirds. It's like buses - single door works well for the traditional "everyone gets on on the way into town then the whole thing disgorges at the bus station, and reverse that on the way back" - which is basically what VTWC is like other than the via Brum services - but if you're running a cross-city service with heavy boarding and alighting at several stops having dual or even triple doors saves a lot of running time.

[2] The outlier there is the Scottish services which are "true" IC and are a very poor fit for TPE anyway - they should have remained with XC with new stock provided or gone to the West Coast operator. But as those have got a dedicated fleet, there's no reason they couldn't have end doors while the others have doors at thirds.
 

td97

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What they are is a poshed-up regional express with heavy commuter loadings
Stops including Lea Green, Dewsbury, Stalybridge, Bolton and Chester-le-Street on their supposed 'intercity' services don't help their "intercity" aspirations.
despite the fact that their sometimes slightly arrogant attitude likes to shout that
Straight from the horse's mouth: "TransPennine Express is a dedicated intercity rail service linking key cities and major towns in the North of England and Scotland."
 

Bletchleyite

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Stops including Lea Green, Dewsbury, Stalybridge, Bolton and Chester-le-Street on their supposed 'intercity' services don't help their "intercity" aspirations.

Indeed not. But I wouldn't be lopping those out - I'd just be recognising that it isn't true IC other than the WCML service which is.

Straight from the horse's mouth: "TransPennine Express is a dedicated intercity rail service linking key cities and major towns in the North of England and Scotland."

It's "intercity", but then so is the District Line (which of course connects the Cities of London and Westminster), or a Kirkby-Manc Vic stopper (or even a Metrolink Eccles line tram) which connects the great Northern cities of Salford and Manchester, or a Thameslink 80x from Snorbens to St Pancras. What it isn't is InterCity in the proper sense of that brand - it's a regional express. If it was in Germany, it'd bang on get a RE classification, leaving ICE to VTWC, GWR mainline and LNER, with the likes of EMR and XC getting plain IC. It'd be IC in the Netherlands, but their entire system is a suburban operation more like the South East commuter network and doesn't really have any true IC except the Beneluxtrein.
 

PomWombat

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If TPE isn't considered InterCity, then there's a passive pennine-shaped hole in the services that are considered inter-city.

That TPE services stop in more minor locations is perhaps down to fact that no-one has bothered to 4-track a serious TPML yet, and segregate local and inter-city traffic. The fact that the "Northern Powerhouse Rail" project is aligned more with TPE routes and destinations than XC destinations might tell us something about how TPE *ought* to be running, if only the infrastructure were there.
 

FFFC 57

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I travelled on the 0730 out of Victoria, it was on time and we got a window aligned table in the DT. The train got busy between Huddersfield and Leeds with just a couple of people standing up. After Leeds the train accommodated everybody with a seat. The train did lose a little time over the journey arriving around 15 late at Scarborough.

The ride was smooth and comfortable and a nice bit of thrash in the tunnels.

I think for a new train with new systems that the staff have to learn and master plus keeping everyone safe, they are doing a pretty great job. Keep up the good work.
 

Pacco

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I had a ride in one last night from Manchester Oxford Road to Piccadilly (it was late as were numerous other services - one was cancelled due to congestion at 9.50pm! - broken railway)

Anyway, the class 68 was very noisy, but I got on and it was quite swish, good PiS and clear automated announcements. The lighting was nicely done, but it wasn't half bright. Could do with a 'night mode' I think to tone it down a bit.
 

Jamesrob637

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The 397 from Glasgow to Manchester on Saturday was impressive. I was meant to have it both ways but it was caped at Preston outbound due to no forward driver. The seats aren't the hardest in the world but they do encourage some movement from time to time. Brilliant on a £1 promo but not sure about excellent value for money at rack rate. But a massive improvement on 185s - easily 1.8 times/twice the Standard Class capacity.
 
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