Expired railcard by 1 day

[QANN93]

Hello, was wondering if it was worth contesting this.

My 16-25 railcard expired last Friday, I realised immediately and bought another one on Friday evening .However I had already bought a ticket using my railcard for a train journey on Saturday.

On Saturday when I got on the train I was fined and was told I had to rebuy a full price ticket. I explained my situation to the guard, and even showed them proof that I had rebought my railcard the night before, and showed them my expired one too.

Still, they weren't having it and fined me.

Is it worth contesting this? .
I'm aware it is my fault, however i feel that a little bit of leniancy should be in order.

 

[30907]

1. I assume that you received a Penalty Fare?

2. I assume that you bought the railcard online for postal delivery? If so, there is a chance that it has been issued to start from last Saturday and you actually had a valid railcard.

There is a provision for a one- off refund of a fare paid because you had not got the card with you.

 

[najaB]

On Saturday when I got on the train I was fined and was told I had to rebuy a full price ticket. I explained my situation to the guard, and even showed them proof that I had rebought my railcard the night before, and showed them my expired one too.

Still, they weren't having it and fined me.

They followed the correct procedure - no Railcard means new ticket. Though they should have explained that you could get a refund if, at a later date, you were able to present a card which would have been valid at the time.

As such, there's not really much you can base an appeal on unless the new card was backdated relative to when your received it, as suggested above.

 

[causton]

Speak to the TOC customer services - as stated above, you get one chance a year to "forget" (or not have for whatever reason) your railcard and get a refund of the fare paid.

 

[MichaelAMW]

Hello, was wondering if it was worth contesting this.

My 16-25 railcard expired last Friday, I realised immediately and bought another one on Friday evening .However I had already bought a ticket using my railcard for a train journey on Saturday.

On Saturday when I got on the train I was fined and was told I had to rebuy a full price ticket. I explained my situation to the guard, and even showed them proof that I had rebought my railcard the night before, and showed them my expired one too.

Still, they weren't having it and fined me.

I think you are actually saying that you weren't "fined" at all, but merely asked to buy a new ticket as you did not have a railcard to validate the ticket you held. Hopfully, the new one is dated from Saturday and you can take advantage of the opportunity for a refund if you subsequently produce the railcard.

 

[Haywain]

2. I assume that you bought the railcard online for postal delivery? If so, there is a chance that it has been issued to start from last Saturday and you actually had a valid railcard.

Railcards bought online do not actually have a start date but are issued with an expiry date that assumes at least 7 days being required for delivery. I think it would be stretching it to claim it was valid before it was in the OPs possession and suspect not being valid until received will be explicitly stated on the website.

 

[QANN93]

They followed the correct procedure - no Railcard means new ticket. Though they should have explained that you could get a refund if, at a later date, you were able to present a card which would have been valid at the time.

As such, there's not really much you can base an appeal on unless the new card was backdated relative to when your received it, as suggested above.

Yeah, i do understand that i was in the wrong. But do guards not take any circumstances into account. I was fined and then had to buy a new ticket. I honestly feel it is a little unfair

 

[QANN93]

Railcards bought online do not actually have a start date but are issued with an expiry date that assumes at least 7 days being required for delivery. I think it would be stretching it to claim it was valid before it was in the OPs possession and suspect not being valid until received will be explicitly stated on the website.

Yeah, i suppose it is stretching it. But like i said, i feels its a little unfair as my old card was only one day out of date, and i immediately brought a new one .

So guards not take circumstances into account ?

 

[najaB]

But do guards not take any circumstances into account.

They can and do. But one thing about discretion is that it won't always be in your favour.

 

[QANN93]

They can and do. But one thing about discretion is that it won't always be in your favour.

Yeah, do you think it would be worth contesting?

 

[221129]

Yeah, do you think it would be worth contesting?

No. There is nothing to contest.

 

[najaB]

Yeah, do you think it would be worth contesting?

Did you have a valid Railcard in your possession at the time?

 

[QANN93]

Did you have a valid Railcard in your possession at the time?

No. i had my expired railcard that was off by one day, and proof of purchasing my new railcard .

So yeah I'm in the wrong, These things happen .

 

[Hadders]

This is an unfortunate incident but I think the best course of action is to chalk it up to experience.

My 16-25 railcard expired last Friday, I realised immediately and bought another one on Friday evening

If you had purchased the railcard at a station, either on the Friday evening or Saturday before you set off you'd have been given it straight away rather than having to wait for it to be sent through the post.

 

[philthetube]

contact customer services, the worst that can happen is that they say no.

 

[najaB]

So yeah I'm in the wrong, These things happen .

So there's nothing to contest. That doesn't stop you asking customer services for a gesture of good will.

 

[gray1404]

What stations were you travelling between and what ticket was held? Where you issued with a penalty fare? What was the additional undiscounted ticket you had to purchase? Which train company were you travelling with?

When you paid for your next railcard online did you do this as a renewal or as a brand new purchase?

 

[furlong]

It may really come down to what information you were - or were not - given during the online transaction.

The company should be able to point to a clear statement, that you acknowledged, that you had to wait for it to arrive before you could use discounted tickets, and that in the meantime you had to buy full price tickets, and that if you had already any discounted tickets in your possession it should have told you whatt to do.

If you were not given relevant information like that - there's a general duty to make terms like those clear to you - then you might well find that the company you travelled with agrees to offer some sort of refund if you ask politely.

 

[theironroad]

Hello, was wondering if it was worth contesting this.

My 16-25 railcard expired last Friday, I realised immediately and bought another one on Friday evening .However I had already bought a ticket using my railcard for a train journey on Saturday.

On Saturday when I got on the train I was fined and was told I had to rebuy a full price ticket. I explained my situation to the guard, and even showed them proof that I had rebought my railcard the night before, and showed them my expired one too.

Still, they weren't having it and fined me.

Is it worth contesting this? .
I'm aware it is my fault, however i feel that a little bit of leniancy should be in order.

I agree. If you genuinely realised your error and tried to rectify it by buying a new card online on the Friday evening before travel, it's clear you're not trying to milk the system. While technically you might be in the wrong , it does the railway no glory annoying people like this. You could have helped yourself, however, having realised the mistake by buying a new railcard on Friday evening or Saturday morning,but obviously that depends on having a staffed station available.

I see the black and white brigade are out an no doubt they lead faultless, perfect lives.

 

[najaB]

I see the black and white brigade are out

The OP asked if they could challenge the Penalty Fare. There are don't appear to be any grounds on which to base a challenge so yes, it is black and white.

If you genuinely realised your error and tried to rectify it by buying a new card online on the Friday evening before travel, it's clear you're not trying to milk the system.

Indeed it is, hence why multiple posters have suggested raising the matter as a customer service issue. There's a high probability that they will be successful in getting some recompense.

 

[najaB]

The company should be able to point to a clear statement, that you acknowledged, that you had to wait for it to arrive before you could use discounted tickets, and that in the meantime you had to buy full price tickets, and that if you had already any discounted tickets in your possession it should have told you whatt to do.

I see where you're coming from here but, even absent such a statement, there is a blanket statement that you must be in physical possession of the card in order to use discounted tickets.

 

[cuccir]

If we want to be very technical about it, in the Terms and Conditions it states that a physical 16-25 Railcard isn't valid until you've signed it. Given that you can't have signed a Railcard you didn't physically have, it can't have been valid on that date, so there's no argument in terms of having a valid Railcard.

As others have said, though, go to customer services: after all, you had done your duty of paying for a Railcard, and they do have the option of showing flexibility outside the rules to perhaps refund the new ticket purchased.

 

[QANN93]

Hi all, thanks for the replies. I contacted the train company through someone i know that works for them, and they have agreed to waiver the fee upon sending proof of the date i bought my new railcard. Guess discretion can be used. Thanks again

 

[najaB]

Glad to hear that.

 

[MotCO]

Nice to hear someone using their discretion and making a good decision.

 

[theironroad]

Hi all, thanks for the replies. I contacted the train company through someone i know that works for them, and they have agreed to waiver the fee upon sending proof of the date i bought my new railcard. Guess discretion can be used. Thanks again

Glad to hear it. A common sense result.

 

[30907]

Nice to hear someone using their discretion and making a good decision.

Excellent decision. In line with stated policy AIUI.

 

[mikeg]

A good result. Just be more careful in future as we have one case ongoing where a passenger has been reported for prosecution for an expired railcard - that said it expired in November so understandable!

I do wonder why we can't be like Deutsche Bahn and have a temporary railcard you can print off, valid for a few weeks until the proper one arrives? Of course the RDG's answer is the consumer unfriendly 'digital railcard' which requires a compatible device running proprietary software and undermines your rights if their own technology doesn't work.

 

[najaB]

I do wonder why we can't be like Deutsche Bahn and have a temporary railcard you can print off, valid for a few weeks until the proper one arrives?

Why add another way that things could go wrong? If you really need to travel in a hurry then either use the (admittedly sub-optimal) app or find your way to a staffed railway station.

As an aside, not being eligible for any card I've not kept up to date: other than the 26-30 railcard are the others bi-available (i.e. as a physical and electronic card concurrently) or is it an "either/or" situation?

Edit: Fixed spelling.

 

[mikeg]

It's either/or unfortunately. Of course no valid reason those involving a photocard at least couldn't be made bi-available, but the RDG doesn't like to be consumer friendly.