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Explosion on train at Parsons Green, 15/9/17

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Ianigsy

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Wimbledon service resumed at 22.40, Parsons Green reopened at 00.58 this morning.

Visiting London from Yorkshire yesterday, I was impressed by just how calm the Underground was- the only location where the security messages were intrusive was at St Pancras (perhaps unsurprisingly) where they seemed to be on a constant repeating loop.
 

Bletchleyite

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Visiting London from Yorkshire yesterday, I was impressed by just how calm the Underground was- the only location where the security messages were intrusive was at St Pancras (perhaps unsurprisingly) where they seemed to be on a constant repeating loop.

Was in London on Saturday and today and I noticed no differences from normal. Only thing I got was a LM guard on Friday evening who asked me to put my bag (wouldn't fit the overhead) on a seat[1] instead of by the doors so it was closer to me.

Quite proud of the attitude to it, really. Everyone's just a bit bored and hacked off with it, not scared, it seems.

[1] It was dead quiet as nobody had got to work to need to get home from it due to the fire disruption in the morning.
 

61653 HTAFC

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It now seems to be clear that the device didn't involve a gas cylinder, so I think this theory can be regarded as disproved.

As to the number of lineside fires at one time, while it was almost certainly a coincidence, I have wondered for a while whether there was something in coordinated sabotage. It wouldn't be very deadly, but a chain over the edge of a road bridge on one (overhead electrified) line, an abandoned warehouse on fire next to another, and so on, could rapidly remove most of the routes in to London from a region. I don't think it's happened, here, though. I don't know if anyone would ever try it. I don't know of any terrorist groups who want to make 500,000 people late for their breakfast meeting.

EDIT: Rereading that I sound like quite the conspiracy theorist. It's really just something I had wondered about that seemed relevant.

If that was the tactics of a group, they may find more support that way than by murdering civilians...

Actual 15 or nearer 30-40 but declared themselves as a child?

Someone's been drinking the Murdoch Kool-Aid, it seems :roll:
 

jon0844

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Really? Have you not seen the photos and videos of children in Sweden that are meant to be teenagers? Not in the Murdoch press, I might add. A huge loophole that I am not certain has been closed, but put many people at risk of rape or murder.

People who were willing to lie about their age, and origin, so blatantly are probably not very trustworthy people.

I have no issues with genuine asylum seekers. We were taken for a ride and what's even worse is that by being played for fools we ended up giving all the ammunition necessary to Farage and co to vote leave.

I have no idea about this individual, but thought it a valid question.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

AlterEgo

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Apart from those with injuries, the people I feel most sorry for in all this is the elderly foster couple who, it seems, may have had their house used to store materials used in bomb making. Can you imagine being them? A lifetime of contributing to the public good, and now this?
 

Cowley

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Apart from those with injuries, the people I feel most sorry for in all this is the elderly foster couple who, it seems, may have had their house used to store materials used in bomb making. Can you imagine being them? A lifetime of contributing to the public good, and now this?

Yes I thought that too. Very sad when they've opened their hearts and homes to give people a new start in life.
 

Antman

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Apart from those with injuries, the people I feel most sorry for in all this is the elderly foster couple who, it seems, may have had their house used to store materials used in bomb making. Can you imagine being them? A lifetime of contributing to the public good, and now this?

I'm sure they've acted with the best of intentions but I can't help thinking that they've been somewhat misguided.
 

AlterEgo

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A couple of newspapers are now suggesting both suspects were fostered by the couple. The Daily Record suggests this, and claims the couple were told the 18 year old suspect - an Iraqi refugee - was claiming to be a lot younger.

The second, older suspect is apparently a Syrian refugee.
 

61653 HTAFC

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My issue is that because a small group of refugees have lied about their age, the narrative is that most are lying and so none of them should be trusted. Whenever that happens it doesn't tend to end well for either side.

Saying things like "...puts many people at risk of rape and murder" is alarmist and inaccurate. Statistically refugees or asylum seekers are LESS likely to commit violent crimes than the domestic population. Yes, that's scant comfort to those affected by terrorist attacks, but putting up divides between people is entirely the wrong way to deal with the threat.
 
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jon0844

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It wasn't alarming. A 'child' put in a home for kids murdered a care worker in Sweden. Another committed rape.

I didn't go all Daily Mail and claim they all do it, but can't you see a risk of putting, say, a 40 year old male amongst children?

I am not against refugees at all, but I doubt anyone wasn't aware that some people destroyed their ID and claimed to be Syrian children when they were/are neither.
 

farleigh

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My issue is that because a small group of refugees have lied about their age, the narrative is that most are lying and so none of them should be trusted. Whenever that happens it doesn't tend to end well for either side.

Saying things like "...puts many people at risk of rape and murder" is alarmist and inaccurate. Statistically refugees or asylum seekers are LESS likely to commit violent crimes than the domestic population. Yes, that's scant comfort to those affected by terrorist attacks, but putting up divides between people is entirely the wrong way to deal with the threat.

Not questioning - just genuinely interested. Can you provide a link to those statistics or the underlying data?
Thanks
 

ModernRailways

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It wasn't alarming. A 'child' put in a home for kids murdered a care worker in Sweden. Another committed rape.

I didn't go all Daily Mail and claim they all do it, but can't you see a risk of putting, say, a 40 year old male amongst children?

I am not against refugees at all, but I doubt anyone wasn't aware that some people destroyed their ID and claimed to be Syrian children when they were/are neither.

:roll:

I don't see why a 40 year old male amongst children is a risk. Let's just remove all childcare etc. because someone might be a murderer or rapist or do you just not want refugees doing childcare?

So what do you think should be done? Stricter checks? Some of these people have literally lost everything, and they might only have one form of ID.

You're always going to have people trying to beat the system, but when you have a few edge cases I don't think it's worth stopping helping other people who've lost their entire livelihood.

You've gone completely off topic here anyway, most terrorism committed by people who claim allegiance to Daesh has been homegrown. Why do you think that is?
 

jon0844

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A 40 year old male put in a children's home? You think that's okay? What about when the same 'children' actually went to school? (this isn't right wing paranoia, it has been happening in Sweden for some time).

It isn't the norm, sure, but I don't think that's right. But, yes, we've gone off on a tangent now so let's just concentrate on the suspects in the UK for this specific incident.
 

Mojo

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Not questioning - just genuinely interested. Can you provide a link to those statistics or the underlying data?
Thanks
"Two thirds of disputed Calais 'child refugees' are adults, Home Office figures reveal

More than two-thirds of refugees arriving in the UK who had their age assessed were in fact over 18, Home Office figures reveal.

Data from the year ending in June reveals that of 933 refugees whose ages were disputed, 68 per cent were deemed to be adults."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ffice-dental-teeth-david-davies-a7369186.html
 

farleigh

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"Two thirds of disputed Calais 'child refugees' are adults, Home Office figures reveal

More than two-thirds of refugees arriving in the UK who had their age assessed were in fact over 18, Home Office figures reveal.

Data from the year ending in June reveals that of 933 refugees whose ages were disputed, 68 per cent were deemed to be adults."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ffice-dental-teeth-david-davies-a7369186.html
My apologies - I was referring to the claim that refugees are less likely to commit crime than other members of society.
 

rebmcr

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I didn't go all Daily Mail and claim they all do it

It really looks like you did, by bringing the unrelated marginal edge case into the discussion like that.

More than two-thirds of refugees arriving in the UK who had their age assessed were in fact over 18, Home Office figures reveal.

That's completely irrelevant unless we also know what proportion of the total were assessed.

Say you have 1000 people who say they are children. You think three of them are adults, so you assess them. Two of them turn out to be adults and you were wrong about the third. That's obviously a negligible amount, but it fits the same headline.

It's bad statistical analysis. All it does is make me suspicious that the real figures don't fit the propaganda and so have been omitted intentionally.
 

NSEFAN

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Why are people speculating about the age of the suspects? If they're actually older than they say, then it'll come out in the wash.

And if a 40 year old refugee can pass themselves off as under 18 face-to-face then I'm sure the beauty companies would love to give them employment and learn their secrets to maintaining that youthful look! :roll: :lol:
 

jon0844

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And if a 40 year old refugee can pass themselves off as under 18 face-to-face then I'm sure the beauty companies would love to give them employment and learn their secrets to maintaining that youthful look! :roll: :lol:

They couldn't. They were obviously older, and the issue was that without ID the authorities had to take their word for it, however ridiculous. It was a situation where you couldn't even blame the Daily Mail for putting a slant on the story - it was that crazy.

And it got even more outrageous when some were put in secondary school, despite being in their 30s or older. Again, the teachers would know and surely protested.

I have not suggested all of the children weren't children, but how anyone can think this wasn't madness - and then we allowed the same to happen in the UK - beats me.

It put staff and other genuine children at potential risk, and in two cases it resulted in a murder and a rape.

But a lot of the discussion thus far is not confirmed, and rumours circulating on social media. It does seem these people were children when they came over, so my original question about their age may not be relevant this time.
 

jon0844

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It really looks like you did, by bringing the unrelated marginal edge case into the discussion like that.

I asked if they were really the age stated. I then had to justify myself, which is why we've gone off topic.

If they really are young then the question is answered, and that can be the end of it.
 

D60

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Seems that the police investigation has now extended from the Sunbury/Hounslow area to Newport, S.Wales, with the arrest of 3 further individuals at 2 addresses...
Also, it was being reported last night, that the individual who left the bomb on the train, may have alighted the train at the previous station Putney Bridge, and the package was thus unattended for around 90secs before igniting... (Having transferred onto that service from another, at Wimbledon..)..
 
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