Extension to Overground announced in Budget.

[Squaddie]

I haven't been able to find the details online, but this evening's Evening Standard is reporting that George Osborne has given the green light to a £150m extension of the Gospel Oak to Barking Overground line in London as far as Barking Riverside, where a new "garden town" of 11,000 homes is being planned.

However, an extension of the DLR to Dagenham via Barking Riverside has been ruled out on grounds of cost (estimated at £400m).

EDIT

There's a brief mention of the scheme on the BBC News website, which says

The government said it would work with London's mayor to extend the Gospel Oak to Barking Line to Barking Riverside.

 

[Pete2210]

That's interesting, but will it mean the electrification of the GOBLIN?

 

[TheKnightWho]

That's interesting, but will it mean the electrification of the GOBLIN?

This has already been announced for 2019.

 

[PG]

Tonight’s ES comment:

There was new money for London: a £200 million fund for the Mayor’s proposed ultra-low emission zone, a major expansion of Brent Cross shopping centre and Barking Riverside, and a £150 million extension of the Gospel Oak to Barking rail line.

 

[Nym]

Yet we struggle to find the likes of £40m for the Croxley Rail Link and £100m for life extention programmes on LU?

 

[TheKnightWho]

Yet we struggle to find the likes of £40m for the Croxley Rail Link and £100m for life extention programmes on LU?

Doesn't it come down to BCRs at the end of the day, though?

 

[EM2]

Bearing in mind where the GOBLin terminates at Barking, there'll be some interesting engineering involved.

 

[Nym]

Doesn't it come down to BCRs at the end of the day, though?

£150m for a tiny extention that could easilly be served by buses?

I'd love to know the political skew applied to this to make a good BCR, but then again, LOROL is Boris' golden boy at the moment.

 

[anti-pacer]

It was reported on ITV London News (which I watch on Virgin Media) that Barking Riverside is 3 miles away from the nearest railway station.

Nowhere around there is that far from a station, including those on the District Line.

Don't you just love inaccurate reporting?

 

[TheKnightWho]

£150m for a tiny extention that could easilly be served by buses?

I'd love to know the political skew applied to this to make a good BCR, but then again, LOROL is Boris' golden boy at the moment.

15,000 new houses is quite a lot, but yes I see what you mean.

 

[EM2]

2.9 miles to Barking, 2.3 miles to Dagenham Dock, 1.9 miles to Upney (all by road) depending on what you mean by Barking Riverside.
If you go from the point nearest the river, you can add another mile to those numbers.

 

[Nym]

Looking at the map, they will proberbly divert LOROL services via Barking Station Junction and Barking Tilbury Line Junction West into Platforms 7 & 8, then onwards until passing the A13 then proberbly diverge just south of there.

To be honest, if they wanted to connect it better with Central London it would be better sending some of Crossrail that way via Woodrange Pk Junction or some LTS services into Fenchurch Street...

Although if Platform 1 is no longer needed by LOROL it could be taken over by the District Line for a better terminating arrangement to be put in place at Barking.

 

[W-on-Sea]

3 miles is a slight overstatement, but Google maps shows that some parts of the Barking Riverside area (e.g. Marine Drive) are 2.6 miles, by road, from the nearest station (Upney), and the geographic layout of roads, streams, and railway lines means there is no even close to direct way of walking there. By the standards of Greater London (which I appreciate are very different from those of most other places in the UK...) this really is quite an inaccessible neighbourhood by public transport - and even, given that there are only two roads in and out, by private transport. A station will surely help the development of the area greatly (....and...who knows....provide a route for a potential, eventual, so often delayed, extension to Thamesmead?...)

 

[hassaanhc]

2.9 miles to Barking, 2.3 miles to Dagenham Dock, 1.9 miles to Upney (all by road) depending on what you mean by Barking Riverside.
If you go from the point nearest the river, you can add another mile to those numbers.

I used the Rivergate Centre as the start and got roughly:
2.2 miles to Upney
2.8 miles to Barking
2.9 miles to Becontree
3.1 miles to Dagenham Dock
3.3 miles to Beckton
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

3 miles is a slight overstatement, but Google maps shows that some parts of the Barking Riverside area (e.g. Marine Drive) are 2.6 miles, by road, from the nearest station (Upney), and the geographic layout of roads, streams, and railway lines means there is no even close to direct way of walking there. By the standards of Greater London (which I appreciate are very different from those of most other places in the UK...) this really is quite an inaccessible neighbourhood by public transport - and even, given that there are only two roads in and out, by private transport. A station will surely help the development of the area greatly (....and...who knows....provide a route for a potential, eventual, so often delayed, extension to Thamesmead?...)

Having taken a bus there once I would agree with this. In fact a church there has a few shuttle bus journeys run by Tower Transit, making a few return journeys on Sundays to Barking Station or North Woolwich Free Ferry via Beckton. And is completely surrounded by industrial units currently, many derelict. The worst is a bit further south at River Road, Creekmouth.

 

[anti-pacer]

Post 2019 when the GOBLIN is wired, could we expect through trains to Richmond/Clapham Junction, or does the platform layout at Gospel Oak prevent that?

(Trying to remember said layout).

 

[Nym]

Post 2019 when the GOBLIN is wired, could we expect through trains to Richmond/Clapham Junction, or does the platform layout at Gospel Oak prevent that?

(Trying to remember said layout).

It's possible, but you can't call at Gospel Oak (as is done by 2 tpd in the am peak to Willesden Jcn LL)

 

[Squaddie]

The Barking platform at Gospel Oak is a dead-end, with no connection to the main Overground line. And I doubt there are any paths available in any case, seeing as there are currently 8 trains an hour along that stretch of line.

 

[hassaanhc]

Not taking into account cost, this project in my opinion would be far better than the option of the DLR extension, if only for the sheer flexibility heavy rail would give. I mean, with heavy rail you have the option to divert trains during disruption and open up to a wider choice of rolling stock, whereas the DLR is a closed proprietary system. I'm a regular user and while it is a good system, the ride quality doesn't come close to proper heavy rail.

 

[anti-pacer]

What's the interchange from GOBLIN to westbound C2C, District, and Hammersmith & City lines?

Is it cross platform or up over the bridges?

 

[hassaanhc]

Cross platform between District/c2c in both directions, and the H&C bay is by the down platforms, although I think it is not in regular use these days and up trains depart from same island as H&C uses a siding to reverse (IIRC).

 

[W-on-Sea]

The Barking platform at Gospel Oak is a dead-end, with no connection to the main Overground line. And I doubt there are any paths available in any case, seeing as there are currently 8 trains an hour along that stretch of line.

The line to and from Woodgrange Park is connected, west of Barking, by the flyover that goes into Platforms 7/8 at Barking (which then go on towards Dagenham Dock and - as such - Barking Riverside), so there is direct access: as far as passenger trains are concerned, certain GOBLIN services (e.g. some on Saturday afternoons) use this link, and use Platform 7, instead of Platform 1 at Barking, as do the limited c2c services to and from Liverpool Street, and c2c when diverted on engineering works via Stratford.

While there is a non-negligible amount of freight traffic on the line between Dagenham Dock and Barking (and onto at least part of the GOBLIN route), the usual non-peak frequency of passenger services on that line is currently 2 an hour, so there generally would be scope for some additional passenger services on the stretch to Barking Riverside.

(Apart from the bridge, There is also a ramp and subway link between all of the platforms at Barking)

 

[306024]

Before we fill the line up with passenger services the freight boys are rather keen on reserving capacity for additional freight services to Thames Gateway Port as well. Headways on parts of the T&H are currently close to 7 minutes.

Meanwhile the London Evening Standard was on top form reporting on the Budget. On page 1, referring to South London's Aylesbury Estate in Walworth, "one proposal is to demolish 2,700 homes and create 3,500 new ones, half of them affordable". I'll have one of the unaffordable ones please.

Then on page 2 there are two pictures of Theresa May who "turned to her trusty leopard print heels today in a sign more austerity could be on the cards or that the good old days are back". Such insightful journalism is hard to beat.

 

[LateThanNever]

Before we fill the line up with passenger services the freight boys are rather keen on reserving capacity for additional freight services to Thames Gateway Port as well. Headways on parts of the T&H are currently close to 7 minutes.

Meanwhile the London Evening Standard was on top form reporting on the Budget. On page 1, referring to South London's Aylesbury Estate in Walworth, "one proposal is to demolish 2,700 homes and create 3,500 new ones, half of them affordable". I'll have one of the unaffordable ones please.

Then on page 2 there are two pictures of Theresa May who "turned to her trusty leopard print heels today in a sign more austerity could be on the cards or that the good old days are back". Such insightful journalism is hard to beat.

Love it! Normally the Standard is a remarkably good read for what is now a freebie. But they now seem to be vying for the Metro editor of the year awards...

 

[Saint66]

Sorry to be the idiot of the thread, but what does GOBLIN stand for?

Cheers!

 

[hassaanhc]

Sorry to be the idiot of the thread, but what does GOBLIN stand for?

Cheers!

Gospel Oak to Barking LINe

 

[DynamicSpirit]

A station will surely help the development of the area greatly (....and...who knows....provide a route for a potential, eventual, so often delayed, extension to Thamesmead?...)

If they could extend it to Thamesmead and from there to Abbey Wood (to connect with Crossrail), that would massively improve public transport connectivity in East London. Even better if they could tunnel from there to Bexleyheath. I hope they at least leave some passive provision at Barking Riverside to be able to do something like that. Thamesmead is another area that suffers from being quite a fair distance from any station.

 

[THC]

There's a lot of gun-jumping going on, both here and in the ES. What the Budget report (p38) actually says is:

1.144 The government will work with the Mayor of London and the Greater London Authority (GLA) to develop proposals for extending the Gospel Oak to Barking Line to Barking Riverside, and to ensure that any public investment unlocks the construction of up to 11,000 new homes.

Not the same thing at all as "giving the go-ahead". Expect therefore many more similar announcements from Government and the Mayor of London's office as each increment of the scheme is developed.

THC

 

[cle]

Agreed, it's not definitive, and agreed - expect this to be announced over and over. I'd be interested to know if they have only one station, or possibly two (even if quite close together DLR-style).

11,000 homes will not all be a 5-10 minute walk from the station and it would help create multiple villages/locales.

And yes, if pointing S/SE, extending over to Thamesmead would seem obvious. They could crow on about river crossings. And yes, once there, Abbey Wood could be an excellent bit of connectivity. Much more useful than Barking I'd say!

 

[SF-02]

Extending over to Thamesmead and then Abbey Wood crossrail is essential. It would open up so many other options across SE London/Kent and East London/Essex - all areas in line for massive housing growth. The need for a crossing there is well known yet continually knocked back over the past 40 years.

Many say that Thamesmead is near to Abbey Wood Crossrail, and thus has no need for a station with a direct link south to Abbey Wood and crossing the river to the north - however most of the town isn't near to Abbey Wood station at all. It's a slow bus journey or a horrible and long walk through concrete wastelands. Just look at this which shows the only route. Utterly bleak and offputting - http://goo.gl/ih7tyo

Crossrail wont lift Thamesmead much when it is no closer to Abbey Wood station, which already has frequent trains to the City and West End. The problem is the station is just too far from the bulk of Thamesmead, surrounded as it is by an elevated sewer pipe (Northern outfall sewer), extensive dual carriageways and the Thames.

There is scope for far more housing in Thamesmead. Much of it could be built around a station located where the (failed) Stage 3 section of '70s blocks.

 

[Clip]

I get the Thamesmead issue about not having a direct rail link but then why would people move to any new housing there if most of them actually go to work more in the centre of London? Why would they want to go via Barking even if they did then get a GA train into town?