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Extensions to TfGM Wayfarer tickets.

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Mcr Warrior

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If travelling from Manchester to Sheffield (via Stockport) on a Greater Manchester Wayfarer ticket, would one be required to buy an additional ticket from Grindleford (GM Wayfarer boundary station) to Sheffield, or from the last station that the train actually called at, say from Stockport to Sheffield?
 
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mjn

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I've did it a couple of weekends ago and bought a Grindleford to Sheffield return from the conductor on the train.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Useful to know. Was that on a Northern Rail train (which calls at Grindleford) or a Trans Pennine Express or East Midlands train, that doesn't?
 

Puffing Devil

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Really you should be buying a ticket before you board at Manchester. Easiest to buy online and collect at the station, or use an App if you don't mind having a mobile ticket.
 

sonic2009

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You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies: (a) they are both Zonal Tickets unless special conditions prohibit their use in this way.

The Ticket Seller will, if you ask, advise you whether you can use a Zonal Ticket in combination with another ticket.
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another;
or (c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority)

NRCOC Condition 19.

I'm not sure whether the TFGM wayfarer would fall under C a travel pass issued on behalf of a PTE or LA. Someone will clarify i'm sure.
 

mjn

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Useful to know. Was that on a Northern Rail train (which calls at Grindleford) or a Trans Pennine Express or East Midlands train, that doesn't?

Was a northern stopper from Manchester to Sheffield. When we got to Grindelford (and I had made up my mind) I just asked for the extra return. Conductor seemed happy enough.
 

lyndhurst25

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You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies: (a) they are both Zonal Tickets unless special conditions prohibit their use in this way.

The Ticket Seller will, if you ask, advise you whether you can use a Zonal Ticket in combination with another ticket.
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another;
or (c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority)

NRCOC Condition 19.

I'm not sure whether the TFGM wayfarer would fall under C a travel pass issued on behalf of a PTE or LA. Someone will clarify i'm sure.

NRCoC has since been updated to NRCoT, and the PTE ticket exemption stated above has been removed. Under the new rules, the train does not have to stop at Grindleford.
 

Puffing Devil

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NRCoC has since been updated to NRCoT, and the PTE ticket exemption stated above has been removed. Under the new rules, the train does not have to stop at Grindleford.

Which is why you should buy before you board, as you may not be on a stopper.
 

Llandudno

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Yes, but try travelling from Sheffield to Manchester.
The ticket office staff at Sheffield Station refuse to sell a TfGM Wayfarer even though they could!
This in effect prevents you from buying a day return from Sheffield to Grindleford and then using the Wayfarer on fast services to Manchester. You have to buy the Sheffield to Grindleford return at the ticket office and then buy a Wayfarer on the train, but presumably you can only buy these on the Northern stopper.
At least the Northern stopper becomes hourly from next week!
 

lyndhurst25

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Yes, but try travelling from Sheffield to Manchester.
The ticket office staff at Sheffield Station refuse to sell a TfGM Wayfarer even though they could!
This in effect prevents you from buying a day return from Sheffield to Grindleford and then using the Wayfarer on fast services to Manchester. You have to buy the Sheffield to Grindleford return at the ticket office and then buy a Wayfarer on the train, but presumably you can only buy these on the Northern stopper.
At least the Northern stopper becomes hourly from next week!

Sheffield station should not be refusing to sell GM Wayfarers. GMPTE/TfGM have categorically said that they have not issued any instructions that the ticket should not be sold at Sheffield or anywhere else. Other East Midland Trains managed stations will happily sell the GM Wayfarer so I doubt that EMT are the ones putting a block on the sales. If they are then they would be breaking rules on impartial retailing. Have you been refused sale of a GM Wayfarer at Sheffield recently? If so then I'd encourage you, or anyone else who has been refused, to complain to EMT as this problem needs sorting out once and for all. If no joy from EMT then take it further e.g. Transport Focus.
 

robbeech

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Sheffield ticket office are not well known for being friendly, polite, happy to help impartial ticket retailers.
I have personal had no particularly bad experiences but I haven’t purchased much out of the ordinary here. There are multiple topics or posts within more generalised topics stating bad experiences at Sheffield.
 

lyndhurst25

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I know that Sheffield had a reputation for being a rouge ticket office. I'd be interested to hear if this is still going on, with specific examples of the problems that people are having dealing with them. It's all very strange and I wonder how the situation came about? Is it just one manager working there who is teaching bad practice to the rest of the staff? Or maybe Sheffield is the Craggy Island of the ticket office world: a place where the less able members of the ticket selling profession are sent to work as a punishment?
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Sheffield had a reputation for being a rouge ticket office
As it's EMT managed, I've had thought it'd be yellow rather than rouge :lol:

If you are refused the sale of a ticket which there is every reason to expect to be able to buy it (well, ignoring that we're talking about Sheffield ticket office!) then I think you would have a good argument for not buying said ticket before boarding, as you have a defence under Byelaw 18(3)(i). Obviously it would be well worth recording the occurrence as evidence if you are prosecuted.
 

sheff1

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Sheffield station should not be refusing to sell GM Wayfarers. GMPTE/TfGM have categorically said that they have not issued any instructions that the ticket should not be sold at Sheffield or anywhere else. Other East Midland Trains managed stations will happily sell the GM Wayfarer so I doubt that EMT are the ones putting a block on the sales. If they are then they would be breaking rules on impartial retailing. Have you been refused sale of a GM Wayfarer at Sheffield recently? If so then I'd encourage you, or anyone else who has been refused, to complain to EMT as this problem needs sorting out once and for all. If no joy from EMT then take it further e.g. Transport Focus.

Interesting. Can you give a link to the TfGM statement ? When I contacted them last year, after Sheffield said they had been instructed not to sell them, TfGM did not answer my specific question but did say the Wayfarers were not meant to be sold outside the validity area.

Since then, I have bought the TfGM Wayfarers from my local corner shop using Paypoint. They had difficulty in finding them to start with but after allowing me to direct them through the system they were very surprised to find them and how cheap they were (although I did have to explain a couple of times that the 'free' train travel was in Manchester and not everywhere !).
 

Smethwickian

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Interesting. Can you give a link to the TfGM statement ? When I contacted them last year, after Sheffield said they had been instructed not to sell them, TfGM did not answer my specific question but did say the Wayfarers were not meant to be sold outside the validity area.
Quoted in a previous thread on the subject last month based on a TfGM response dated 4 April 2018 at
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/restrictions_on_sale_of_greater#incoming-1136659

To summarise, asked if such a restriction had been added, the response was: "We are not aware of TfGM having imposed any new restrictions on the sale of Wayfarer tickets at National Rail ticket offices or on-board trains. "
 

sheff1

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I know that Sheffield had a reputation for being a rouge ticket office. I'd be interested to hear if this is still going on, with specific examples of the problems that people are having dealing with them. It's all very strange and I wonder how the situation came about? Is it just one manager working there who is teaching bad practice to the rest of the staff? Or maybe Sheffield is the Craggy Island of the ticket office world: a place where the less able members of the ticket selling profession are sent to work as a punishment?

I haven't had any problems with them recently, for the simple reason that I do not use them if there is an alternative, which 99 times out of 100 there is. I had problems with them from the moment I moved to the city more than two decades ago, having never had any problems where I previously lived - back then, of course, alternatives were less prevalent so I was forced to make numerous complaints which resulted in apologies, recompense and promises of change but things remained the same. A few years ago a new booking clerk, obviously non-local but certainly experienced, appeared and was highly efficient in issuing things the others would not. They only lasted a few months - presumably they did not fit in with the office culture !
 
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sheff1

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Quoted in a previous thread on the subject last month based on a TfGM response dated 4 April 2018 at
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/restrictions_on_sale_of_greater#incoming-1136659

To summarise, asked if such a restriction had been added, the response was: "We are not aware of TfGM having imposed any new restrictions on the sale of Wayfarer tickets at National Rail ticket offices or on-board trains. "

Thanks. I would not actually call that a categorical statement that an instruction had not been issued. To kick off a possibly lengthy escalation process I would want to start from firmer ground. EMT, of course, are not subject to FOI - if they were I would have asked them for a copy of the instruction when the claim was first made by Sheffield.
 

lyndhurst25

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Thanks. I would not actually call that a categorical statement that an instruction had not been issued. To kick off a possibly lengthy escalation process I would want to start from firmer ground. EMT, of course, are not subject to FOI - if they were I would have asked them for a copy of the instruction when the claim was first made by Sheffield.

I think that that's as good as denial from TfGM that they haven't issued any new instructions to restrict the sale of Wayfarers from certain ticket offices, as you are going to get. FoI replys are often worded like that. If they had imposed any such restrictions then you'd have thought that they'd have a record of having done so and responded to the FoI request accordingly. Despite what Sheffield ticket office may claim, the problem lies closer to home. Of course there could be a longstanding secret restriction on the sale of Wayfarers, that has never publicised anywhere at all, that TfGM have forgotten all about and that only Sheffield station are correctly enforcing, with every other station in the country getting it wrong....
 

_toommm_

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I think that that's as good as denial from TfGM that they haven't issued any new instructions to restrict the sale of Wayfarers from certain ticket offices, as you are going to get. FoI replys are often worded like that. If they had imposed any such restrictions then you'd have thought that they'd have a record of having done so and responded to the FoI request accordingly. Despite what Sheffield ticket office may claim, the problem lies closer to home. Of course there could be a longstanding secret restriction on the sale of Wayfarers, that has never publicised anywhere at all, that TfGM have forgotten all about and that only Sheffield station are correctly enforcing, with every other station in the country getting it wrong....

I highly doubt it, I've been refused sale of a Cheshire Day Ranger twice, subsequently asked the guard if I can buy on board to be ridiculed at, at the very idea that they would refuse a valid sale, then the next time to be told 'Were not in Cheshire mate, Cheshire is like Crewe yano, course ya can't buy it'.

Also had problems buying Northern Advances, to which I was told 'We've been told were not allowed to sell em'
 

lyndhurst25

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Looks like the folk at Sheffield are a law unto themselves then and are unknowingly doing their best to have their jobs automated out of existence. Perhaps the best thing is to just wind them up by arranging a bit of mystery shopping with people visiting the ticket office at regular intervals asking for various rovers and ranger tickets progressively more obscure and distant from South Yorkshire.
 

Bletchleyite

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Looks like the folk at Sheffield are a law unto themselves then and are unknowingly doing their best to have their jobs automated out of existence

Quite. I find it quite depressing that so many ticket office staff seem to be the biggest advertisement possible for online purchase and TVMs, when the only case for their retention is the kind of quality, professional, expert service that so many of them seem to fail to offer.

(For balance there are many who *do* offer that - but *far* too many who don't)
 

sheff1

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Of course there could be a longstanding secret restriction on the sale of Wayfarers, that has never publicised anywhere at all, that TfGM have forgotten all about and that only Sheffield station are correctly enforcing, with every other station in the country getting it wrong....

I can well believe that is exactly what they would say. When I first moved up and they refused to sell things I had previously bought elsewhere I told them that and a typical response would be "well station xxxx" don't know what they're doing then".

Slightly off tangent, on one occasion I asked for a ticket to the station near where I formerly lived and they said no such place existed. When I spelt it out for them they said "oh you mean xxxx, you were pronouncing it wrongly". Of course I was, I had only lived there for 7 years so they must know better :rolleyes:.
 
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