Extensive TfW cancellations on Valley Lines - Sun 30/5

[Cardiff123]

Looks like virtually nothing will be running on the south Wales Valley lines tomorrow - 89 full cancellations for tomorrow showing on TfW journey check so far tonight, with 27 partial cancellations. TfW citing their vague 'resource availability' reason for the cancellations.

https://www.journeycheck.com/tfwrail/

This could become a recurring theme on Sundays this summer if the weather is as it is this weekend.

 

[Llandudno]

Looks like virtually nothing will be running on the south Wales Valley lines tomorrow - 89 full cancellations for tomorrow showing on TfW journey check so far tonight, with 27 partial cancellations. TfW citing their vague 'resource availability' reason for the cancellations.

https://www.journeycheck.com/tfwrail/

This could become a recurring theme this on Sundays this summer if the weather is as it is this weekend.

Probably avoids overcrowding on board the trains if you don’t bother running any...!

Could be a bit lively late afternoon in the north as well with the usual skeleton service operating...

 

[_toommm_]

Do TfW have Sunday wholly outside of the working week then?

 

[Cardiff123]

Do TfW have Sunday wholly outside of the working week then?

I'd presume so with that many cancellations. Can't say I blame train crew for not wanting to work the first sunny bank holiday Sunday of the year with eased Covid restrictions, when it's optional. But TfW might as well put out a 'Do not travel' notice for the Valleys tomorrow as they obviously cannot run any kind of reliable valleys service.

 

[PHILIPE]

I notice that almost all of the Valley cancellations are the services above the block from Pontypridd upwards to Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr.

 

[Revilo]

Perhaps it’s because they got rid of their pacers!

 

[geoffk]

If you're a train crew member and don't want to work on a Sunday, you're in the wrong job. The railways are their own worst enemy - an opportunity for bus operators to cash in perhaps, except that they don't run much on a Sunday either!

 

[Watershed]

Hmm, what a surprise. A sunny Bank Holiday Sunday. Sundays outside the working week. Who could have seen this coming?

Unfortunately there's simply not a sufficient incentive for TOCs to get this stuff right.

 

[Jez]

I see a number of Manchester to Swansea/Milford Haven services will start at/terminate at Crewe also. What a poor service!

 

[PHILIPE]

I see a number of Manchester to Swansea/Milford Haven services will start at/terminate at Crewe also. What a poor service!

I think you will find there is no problem at the Crewe end. The cancellations are west of Cardiff

 

[Sleepy]

If they've a shortage of crew in general and relied on overtime for a while eventually spouse/partners will put their foot down !! You have the combination of bank hol weekend, half term and good weather all reducing the number of volunteers to work.

 

[Jez]

I think you will find there is no problem at the Crewe end. The cancellations are west of Cardiff

1430 Manchester to Milford will be started at Crewe and no longer call at Manchester Stockport and Wilmslow. Sounds like the Crewe end to me.

 

[RHolmes]

If you're a train crew member and don't want to work on a Sunday, you're in the wrong job. The railways are their own worst enemy - an opportunity for bus operators to cash in perhaps, except that they don't run much on a Sunday either!

Who in their sane mind would willingly come in on a bank holiday pay weekend, on their rest day, during the nicest weather we’ve had in months, with all non-essential leisure and hospitality industries finally open and during half term to do an extra shift on their rest day in the middle of a pandemic?

I certainly wouldn’t!

 

[Carlisle]

A sizeable number of railstaff have benefitted from working spare shifts from home &/or shorter working weeks generally over the last 14 months

 

[TJM]

Sounds like we need Sunday working to become compulsory then (no doubt the unions would be up in arms though), what other public service gets away with just taking Sundays off at their pleasure?

 

[Class800]

And there are some last trains of the night cancelled/curtailed as well - e.g. 20.18 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven is starting at Swansea.

 

[seagull]

Sounds like we need Sunday working to become compulsory then (no doubt the unions would be up in arms though), what other public service gets away with just taking Sundays off at their pleasure?

Council Planning
Council Highways
Refuse Collection
DVLA
Doctor's Surgeries
Libraries
Most Courts of law

I could go on... Not saying it's right and these days it certainly should be sorted out one way or another, but plenty of public services close on Sundays. Which, again, with this era of treating a Sunday as a normal day, should perhaps be reviewed.
Even worse is the halfway house of compelling a Sunday WITHOUT it being in the working week: so no possibility of booking annual leave either.

To return to topic: IIRC TfW have Sundays as the above, compelled but not in the working week: so it's not possible to just refuse to do the turn, it must be covered by someone else for the day to be given off. However they do (or did) operate a one-time per year "golden ticket" whereby a member of staff could guarantee that Sunday off - and it may be that several of those are being redeemed at once.

 

[TJM]

Council Planning
Council Highways
Refuse Collection
DVLA
Doctor's Surgeries
Libraries
Most Courts of law

I could go on... Not saying it's right and these days it certainly should be sorted out one way or another, but plenty of public services close on Sundays. Which, again, with this era of treating a Sunday as a normal day, should perhaps be reviewed.
Even worse is the halfway house of compelling a Sunday WITHOUT it being in the working week: so no possibility of booking annual leave either.

To return to topic: IIRC TfW have Sundays as the above, compelled but not in the working week: so it's not possible to just refuse to do the turn, it must be covered by someone else for the day to be given off. However they do (or did) operate a one-time per year "golden ticket" whereby a member of staff could guarantee that Sunday off - and it may be that several of those are being redeemed at once.

Yes, but you don't expect those to be available on a Sunday, while trains are timetabled then. You're probably right though about many Sundays off being redeemed at once, with the good weather..

 

[AdamWW]

L

Yes, but you don't expect those to be available on a Sunday, while trains are timetabled then.

I don't see the equivalence anyway.

I don't think many people would find it a compelling argument if the government decided to cut all weekend and evening rail service to save money and justified it because it's just the same as saying you can't see a doctor then or get your bins emptied.

 

[LowLevel]

I agree Sunday should be able to be worked reliably but those arguing for it to be imposed should be careful what they wish for - Stagecoach did just that in 2008 with it's local train guards in the East Mids by means of threatening new starters in training with "find another job" if they didn't sign contract amendments. 13 years later the resultant mess is still a massive industrial relations sore (made significantly worse by later actions by Stagecoach to clumsily further change and impose new conditions on new starters without agreement, along with declaring an 8 year old "agreement" on the Sunday issue to be a "mistake") - the net result? All East Midlands services between Sheffield and Liverpool are cancelled today because to this day it still hasn't settled.

It can be done properly, and it needs to be, for everyone's sake.

 

[trentside]

Sounds like we need Sunday working to become compulsory then (no doubt the unions would be up in arms though), what other public service gets away with just taking Sundays off at their pleasure?

Actually the unions are broadly in favour of bringing Sundays into the working week as it can be mutually beneficial. Certainly my experience elsewhere but getting the deal done can be more problematic when it comes to the nitty gritty of how it will be achieved.

 

[jamesst]

Actually the unions are broadly in favour of bringing Sundays into the working week as it can be mutually beneficial. Certainly my experience elsewhere but getting the deal done can be more problematic when it comes to the nitty gritty of how it will be achieved.

This exactly! The big bad unions mantra gets trotted out everytime, more often than not its the TOC who don't want it...

 

[duncanp]

Whilst I can understand the desire of train staff not to work on a sunny weekend if they are not contractually obliged to, I wonder what the staff who are taking the time off are intending to do.

I hope they don't intend to go shopping or visit a tourist attraction, as this would require other people to work on a Sunday.

How would they feel if they made a reservation for Sunday lunch at their local pub, only to be told on turning up that their reservation has been cancelled because the bar and restaurant staff felt like taking the day off due to the sunny weather?

Public transport is a public service industry, and it needs to run to suit the needs of the public.

 

[LowLevel]

Whilst I can understand the desire of train staff not to work on a sunny weekend if they are not contractually obliged to, I wonder what the staff who are taking the time off are intending to do.

I hope they don't intend to go shopping or visit a tourist attraction, as this would require other people to work on a Sunday.

How would they feel if they made a reservation for Sunday lunch at their local pub, only to be told on turning up that their reservation has been cancelled because the bar and restaurant staff felt like taking the day off due to the sunny weather?

Public transport is a public service industry, and it needs to run to suit the needs of the public.

"I have a contract that allows me to take a day off with my kids when the weather is nice of a Bank Holiday weekend. I am not going to do this for the good of everyone else".

Good luck with that with human nature being as it is. The other people you cite presumably don't have that contractual entitlement.

 

[Butts]

So virtually no Trains in Wales or Scotland today !!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

This exactly! The big bad unions mantra gets trotted out everytime, more often than not its the TOC who don't want it...

It depends what ELSE the unions are tying to the possibility of bringing Sundays inside, that ultimately makes it unpalatable to the TOCs to agree to their terms and we go on as we are.

I guarantee you no TOC wants to see a large percentage of their timetable cancelled on a Sunday, despite what people on this forum might like to imagine.

 

[Ianno87]

Whilst I can understand the desire of train staff not to work on a sunny weekend if they are not contractually obliged to, I wonder what the staff who are taking the time off are intending to do.

I hope they don't intend to go shopping or visit a tourist attraction, as this would require other people to work on a Sunday.

How would they feel if they made a reservation for Sunday lunch at their local pub, only to be told on turning up that their reservation has been cancelled because the bar and restaurant staff felt like taking the day off due to the sunny weather?

Public transport is a public service industry, and it needs to run to suit the needs of the public.

Like everybody in any line of work, nobody is obliged to work extra hours outside their contract if they don't want to. You can hardly blame drivers for exercising this right. It's no more "feeling like a day off" than me not turning up to my 9-5 job at the office on a Saturday.

This ultimately needs solving by bringing Sundays and Bank Holidays into the normal working week.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Hmm, what a surprise. A sunny Bank Holiday Sunday. Sundays outside the working week. Who could have seen this coming?
Unfortunately there's simply not a sufficient incentive for TOCs to get this stuff right.

With the TOC now directly in WG hands, there's no reason at all not to "get it right" (in time, I know these things don't happen instantly).
Presumably TfW still has a mix of different working conditions from the 3 prior regimes merged into ATW (North Western, Central and W&W).

 

[jamesst]

It depends what ELSE the unions are tying to the possibility of bringing Sundays inside, that ultimately makes it unpalatable to the TOCs to agree to their terms and we go on as we are.

I guarantee you no TOC wants to see a large percentage of their timetable cancelled on a Sunday, despite what people on this forum might like to imagine.

I'm a driver thanks, I'm well aware of that!!

As it stands (or at least at my toc) Tocs don't have to pay sick pay or pension contributions for Sundays. If the job I was on was cancelled due to engineering work I won't be paid. In addition Sundays in the working week will actually mean more driving jobs.

Any union negotiations for Sundays in the working week will-quite rightly in my opinion- want all that included, hence why tocs seem to quite like the current situation.

 

[43096]

This exactly! The big bad unions mantra gets trotted out everytime, more often than not its the TOC who don't want it...

It’s not the big bad unions, it’s the big bad management. You’re just trotting out the same nonsense we’ve heard before which is just the flip side of what you’re railing against.