Extensive TfW cancellations on Valley Lines - Sun 30/5

[Bertie the bus]

So do prey tell what your solution is?

Negotiations are taking place to bring Sundays inside, but this takes time. TfW have also been undergoing a large recruitment campaign over the last few years, which will make Sundays in the week possible (and also provide a bigger pool of willing volunteers in the meantime), but Covid has delayed that training.

Do they take 2 centuries because that is the approximate amount of time the railway has had to be in a position to provide a 7 day / week service? Blaming Covid is just desperate.

 

[Robertj21a]

It’s not meant to be.

Traincrew and other railway staff cannot just give up their lives to work 24/7 for the benefit of others, they’re people too remember!

Nobody is asking rail staff to work 24/7. The issue is that trains can't be relied upon and that needs sorting out asap. If the rail management(s) and rail union(s) were genuinely interested in satisfying passenger confidence then they would find a solution. I think we all know that the passenger is right down at the bottom of their priorities.

 

[AMD]

It depends what ELSE the unions are tying to the possibility of bringing Sundays inside, that ultimately makes it unpalatable to the TOCs to agree to their terms and we go on as we are.

I guarantee you no TOC wants to see a large percentage of their timetable cancelled on a Sunday, despite what people on this forum might like to imagine.

You will find that up to now it's more the TOCs who have been backward at coming forward on the Sunday issue. The big gain for the union in bringing Sunday into the working week is that there will have to be more drivers employed contractually, as we will go from a 4 or 5 from 6 day working week to a 4 or 5 from 7 day working week, which equals more members. I think you will find most traincrew are 'expecting' Sundays to eventually become working week (certainly at my depot they are) but it's a matter of time and money.

 

[craigybagel]

Do they take 2 centuries because that is the approximate amount of time the railway has had to be in a position to provide a 7 day / week service? Blaming Covid is just desperate.

But TfW have rarely struggled to this degree on a Sunday before. There have been the odd problematic day, but rarely to this degree. It's a perfect storm situation, one part of which is Covid limiting the pool of available drivers.

Nobody is asking rail staff to work 24/7. The issue is that trains can't be relied upon and that needs sorting out asap. If the rail management(s) and rail union(s) were genuinely interested in satisfying passenger confidence then they would find a solution. I think we all know that the passenger is right down at the bottom of their priorities.

As I've pointed out before, I've never understood this outrage from certain posters that the Unions don't have the passengers as their first priority - why should they? That's not the job of a Union! The Union exists to represent it's members best interests.

In this case, both the TOC and the Unions want Sundays inside. But it's not a thing that can be introduced overnight - both on a logistical level and with both sides reaching agreement on the best way to achieve this.

 

[Dai Corner]

No reports of the cancellations on either BBC or ITV Welsh News tonight or on Wales Online. 99.9% of the population will be completely unaware.

 

[Bow Fell]

A sizeable number of railstaff have benefitted from working spare shifts from home &/or shorter working weeks generally over the last 14 months

Have they? Sounds like I’ve got some time owed to me then. It’s the first I’ve known they’ve reduced my average 35 hour week.

Don’t forget any spare shifts at home are because of government related guidelines that would have meant it would be impossible to social distance at the depot.

 

[Sleepy]

It's effectively a risk-based approach. You save some money in staff costs, but a risk once in a while that you can't cover the timetable and pay a one-off penalty. Effectively the "price" paid for days like today is a performance penalty offset against the ongoing saving in staff cost. A TOC is, after all, a business (at least in pre-Covid land they were)

Same practice in retail - supermarkets rely alot on overtime too for flexibility, covering leave etc and keeping the level of "fixed" staffing cost down.

Over the 30 years Sunday trading has been a thing most retailers have reduced the premium pay right down to normal rates of pay, apart from the 6 hours opening in England & Wales Sunday is treated the same as the rest. However retail workers do have it written in law that they can inform the employer they no longer wish to permanently work Sundays - no idea how often it happens in reality. Of course the likes of GMB union aren't very good compared to the rail unions.

 

[the sniper]

As others have said, I'll stick to the car!

You should have put up a notice in the messrooms. If they'd known Robert, somewhere in the UK, wasn't going to give up his car if they didn't volunteer to work their day off so the timetabled 1tph/1tp2h could run up and down the Valleys, I'm sure they'd be sending people home for all the Spares sat about! Though the thought of them being paid to do nothing is also too much to bare...

 

[Ashley Hill]

In BR days the wages were not as much as the railway today. To boost their wages many staff were falling over themselves trying to get a Sunday in at the greatly enhanced rate of pay. Now with pay now considerably increased there's now no incentive to work a Sunday at a now greatly reduced enhancement.
Also take into account couples who both work shifts. In my case Sunday's are the only guaranteed family day for us so neither of us work Sunday's.

 

[Carlisle]

Of course the likes of GMB union aren't very good compared to the rail unions.

Not really comparable,
GMB secured major victories such as improving pay & conditions for Uber drivers etc.
Rail unions in recent times only appear to have truly excelled in representation of a few specific grades widely & historically acknowledged to wield significant industrial muscle anyway, being fortunate enough to be employed by regional monopolies that’d never be allowed to fail.

 

[mmh]

Meanwhile it looks like nobody considered using the stock sat idle to lengthen the trains that actually did run. I was on the 1530 Holyhead to Crewe, albeit only between Llandudno Junction and Colwyn Bay. It was a two car 175 and full and standing on arrival at Llandudno Junction. Realtime Trains notes "Service gains coaches here" at Llandudno Junction - it didn't. It was only the 4th TFW train from Holyhead of the day! No TFW departures between 0845 and 1430. Unsurprisingly Realtime Trains also shows it had an extended stop at Rhyl - I bet it was fun by there.

TFW's timetabling is just utterly rubbish and treats the passenger with contempt and that is certainly not the fault of any of their drivers.

 

[Envoy]

So, it appears that being as we have a Bank Holiday with good weather, people not willing to volunteer to work. Presumably, had bad weather been forecast, people would have volunteered to work and there would have been few passengers!

 

[dk1]

So, it appears that being as we have a Bank Holiday with good weather, people not willing to volunteer to work. Presumably, had bad weather been forecast, people would have volunteered to work and there would have been few passengers!

It’s a double edged sword. Also with everything open now for the first time in yonks, who wants to work when they don’t have to?

 

[Dai Corner]

It’s a double edged sword. Also with everything open now for the first time in yonks, who wants to work when they don’t have to?

Today is the actual Bank Holiday. There is close to a normal weekday timetable which will involve staff starting before 0600 to crew virtually empty trains for the first half of their shifts. There are only one or two alterations due to 'resource availability'.

There must be a better way to deal with Sundays and public holidays.

 

[LowLevel]

Today is the actual Bank Holiday. There is close to a normal weekday timetable which will involve staff starting before 0600 to crew virtually empty trains for the first half of their shifts. There are only one or two alterations due to 'resource availability'.

There must be a better way to deal with Sundays and public holidays.

As far as I know it is just Sundays - Bank holidays are a normal working day with a leave day given in lieu for us.

 

[Dai Corner]

As far as I know it is just Sundays - Bank holidays are a normal working day with a leave day given in lieu for us.

Yes, I understand that but more of you could have enjoyed your bank holiday off more if you hadn't had to go to bed early and watch your alcohol intake because you had to book on at 05xx this morning.

Bus operators are running a Sunday service. Why not TOCs?

 

[dk1]

Today is the actual Bank Holiday. There is close to a normal weekday timetable which will involve staff starting before 0600 to crew virtually empty trains for the first half of their shifts. There are only one or two alterations due to 'resource availability'.

There must be a better way to deal with Sundays and public holidays.

It's not changed much in the 37 years I've been working them so doubt I will ever see it.

 

[LowLevel]

Yes, I understand that but more of you could have enjoyed your bank holiday off more if you hadn't had to go to bed early and watch your alcohol intake because you had to book on at 05xx this morning.

Bus operators are running a Sunday service. Why not TOCs?

Depends where you go I guess. There were plenty of people meandering around Nottingham station at 0530 this morning boarding trains to places like Liverpool, Cardiff and Skegness. The Railway used to make more use of Bank Holiday Excepted trains but I am guessing the hassle of amended stock and traincrew workings outweigh the benefits - you'd just end up with a load of spare traincrew anyway.

 

[dk1]

Unlike buses trains can often be just as busy on a bank holiday with those travelling further afield more than making up for more local journeys. Get good weather and those bound for tourist areas boost loadings further.

 

[bahnause]

As far as I know it is just Sundays - Bank holidays are a normal working day with a leave day given in lieu for us.

How would a compulsory Sunday affect the shifts? Our Sunday timetable is very similar to the normal timetable during the week. Fewer lengthenings and shortenings of trains before and after peak time, less empty stock to and from maintenance and some commuter trains are not running.

We have more extra trains at weekends for tourism and holidays. This is especially a problem during the holiday season.

We are guaranteed every fourth sunday / bank holiday off and one whole weekend (saturday and sunday) a month off. Many applicants are somewhat deterred by these conditions, as work-life balance is important these days.

 

[Ianno87]

Depends where you go I guess. There were plenty of people meandering around Nottingham station at 0530 this morning boarding trains to places like Liverpool, Cardiff and Skegness. The Railway used to make more use of Bank Holiday Excepted trains but I am guessing the hassle of amended stock and traincrew workings outweigh the benefits - you'd just end up with a load of spare traincrew anyway.

I also suspect that the normal weekday diagrams/rosters are generally very well optimised anyway, so there isn't much to be gained by Bank Holiday variations, short of removing entire diagrams (which would affect the the whole day)

 

[geoffk]

Bus operators are running a Sunday service. Why not TOCs?

Traditionally buses have always run a Sunday service on Bank Holiday Mondays (practice varies on Good Friday), and often nothing at all on New Year's Day, whereas the railway runs a normal Monday (or whatever day) service. I was told that running a special service on BHMs would mean rolling stock in the wrong place on Tuesday morning so it wasn't worth doing. If I go into Exeter city centre now, I get only 25% of the bus service offered on my route on a normal Monday, yet the city will be busy, with most shops open. I don't know what the Sunday working arrangements are for bus crews - anyone know?

 

[Robertj21a]

You should have put up a notice in the messrooms. If they'd known Robert, somewhere in the UK, wasn't going to give up his car if they didn't volunteer to work their day off so the timetabled 1tph/1tp2h could run up and down the Valleys, I'm sure they'd be sending people home for all the Spares sat about! Though the thought of them being paid to do nothing is also too much to bare...

Thanks for the sarcasm, just what is needed to encourage sensible discussion. I'd better leave you to your one-sided world free of other people's views.

 

[Mag_seven]

OK it's now Monday, we appear to be back to a normal service on the Valleys so I suggest we are done here.