External Destination Displays - Multiple Errors

[Deepgreen]

Today on my travels, I saw approximately 20 SWR trains which had either no, or completely wrong, external destination information. It is a strike day, but I can think of no reason why it would be hard or impossible to display normal destination information because of this. If anything, it's even more important to show accurate information for people who may be using unfamiliar routes, etc. Many of the trains simply showed "SWR", but here are a couple of other odd and unhelpful examples:

"1L98 London" was bound for Portsmouth at Woking,
"61 London" was at the front and rear of the same train!
"SWR" appeared at the front and sides of countless 'Desiros', while "London W'loo" was displayed on at least five down workings I saw at Brookwood and Woking.

So - is it now considered that destination displays don't matter? Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) requirements have entailed the re-fitting of many units with different/new external indicators to comply, and have delayed their introduction in some cases. Does it now seem as if all this was for nothing? SWR are by far the worst offenders in my experience. Of course, the 700/707 series units also have displays which are useless in any daylight, dull or bright and must surely fail the DDA needs.

To me it seems a shambolic state of affairs.

 

[elliotjelliot]

I was thinking about this the other day because it was annoying me. I have noticed recently that LNWR struggle with this. It is mainly bad when there is disruption but even in normal working it occurs. What goes hand in hand with the issue discussed here is the fact that automated announcements on trains are then incorrect which is even more unsettling for non-regular rail users.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was thinking about this the other day because it was annoying me. I have noticed recently that LNWR struggle with this. It is mainly bad when there is disruption but even in normal working it occurs. What goes hand in hand with the issue discussed here is the fact that automated announcements on trains are then incorrect which is even more unsettling for non-regular rail users.

I generally find them to be correct on LNR myself.

 

[Deepgreen]

A

I was thinking about this the other day because it was annoying me. I have noticed recently that LNWR struggle with this. It is mainly bad when there is disruption but even in normal working it occurs. What goes hand in hand with the issue discussed here is the fact that automated announcements on trains are then incorrect which is even more unsettling for non-regular rail users.

Absolutely. SWT used to be quite bad at it, but SWR have really dropped the ball. It's far too common on normal service days, and, as you say, other train information often suffers when linked.

 

[swt_passenger]

Absolutely. SWT used to be quite bad at it, but SWR have really dropped the ball. It's far too common on normal service days, and, as you say, other train information often suffers when linked.

With a strike on, is it possible some services aren’t following the normal calling patterns, so there won’t necessarily be a programmed option?

 

[43096]

With a strike on, is it possible some services aren’t following the normal calling patterns, so there won’t necessarily be a programmed option?

I would think that is probably the case. As an example Reading-Waterloo trains are calling at Whitton which they never do normally, so would be amazed if the PIS in the 458s included that calling pattern.

 

[NSE]

Yeah my heart did go when I got on at Twickenham and the train announced next stop Feltham. But it was of course stopping at Whitton. I use Whitton everyday and I have only noticed these destination PIS issues during the strike. On the 458’s it just seems to assume it’s on the normal pattern every time it stops. So it leaves Waterloo correct and then is pushed back one by the Whitton stop.

 

[Deepgreen]

I would think that is probably the case. As an example Reading-Waterloo trains are calling at Whitton which they never do normally, so would be amazed if the PIS in the 458s included that calling pattern.

Yes, detailed changes to calling patterns are more understandable, but trains heading away from London showing "London W'loo", and sundry bizarre mixtures of head-codes and other random characters, plus the unhelpful "SWR" (or simply blanks), are not. It seems that, as the information technology gets more complex (supposedly 'clever') so it loses accuracy/flexibility, and therefore its 'raison d'etre'...
You can't beat opening the cab window and dropping a couple of number stencils in place!

 

[Deepgreen]

Yeah my heart did go when I got on at Twickenham and the train announced next stop Feltham. But it was of course stopping at Whitton. I use Whitton everyday and I have only noticed these destination PIS issues during the strike. On the 458’s it just seems to assume it’s on the normal pattern every time it stops. So it leaves Waterloo correct and then is pushed back one by the Whitton stop.

Did anyone bother to correct the error - driver announcement, etc?

 

[pompeyfan]

What normally happens is the guard and driver both have a code for each working which is then entered into the PIS and everyone is happy, However during strikes trains do not run to their usual calling patterns so the pis code is missing from from the schedule card (same occurs during engineering works).

there is a PDF file with lots of different calling patterns however sometimes even these are not perfect and they result in a compromise, for example I’ve seen Portsmouth - Basingstoke service either omit the fact they call at Micheldever or incorrectly state they call at Shalford.

In regards to the wrong direction being shown, I can only assume some contingency staff aren’t aware that guards have to enter PIS codes in the rear cab of the leading unit after the driver has opened up the desk, otherwise the system doesn’t play.

 

[Ethano92]

I find PIS on SWR both internal and external relatively poor across their entire fleet.

Desiros feel the need to just show the coach number if the next station isnt being announced, external displays aren't always accurate

707s often don't seem to have working PIS when operation via wimbledon but external displays are good though too dim it

458 displays too unclear externally and internally never appear to be on

455/456s seem to split the list of calling points in two for whatever reason and announce stations slightly early. External displays are often right though despite being less sophisticated blind displays on 455s

Can't speak for the diesel fleet however.

All of this is however poor in comparison to neighboring Southern's electrostars and even their 455s.

 

[Deepgreen]

What normally happens is the guard and driver both have a code for each working which is then entered into the PIS and everyone is happy, However during strikes trains do not run to their usual calling patterns so the pis code is missing from from the schedule card (same occurs during engineering works).

there is a PDF file with lots of different calling patterns however sometimes even these are not perfect and they result in a compromise, for example I’ve seen Portsmouth - Basingstoke service either omit the fact they call at Micheldever or incorrectly state they call at Shalford.

In regards to the wrong direction being shown, I can only assume some contingency staff aren’t aware that guards have to enter PIS codes in the rear cab of the leading unit after the driver has opened up the desk, otherwise the system doesn’t play.

Or Shawford? There was a mixture of wrong direction, complete blanks and SWR being shown. However, as I mentioned, this has become quite common on normal service days too, which is, frankly, not good enough.

 

[Deepgreen]

I find PIS on SWR both internal and external relatively poor across their entire fleet.

Desiros feel the need to just show the coach number if the next station isnt being announced, external displays aren't always accurate

707s often don't seem to have working PIS when operation via wimbledon but external displays are good though too dim it

458 displays too unclear externally and internally never appear to be on

455/456s seem to split the list of calling points in two for whatever reason and announce stations slightly early. External displays are often right though despite being less sophisticated blind displays on 455s

Can't speak for the diesel fleet however.

All of this is however poor in comparison to neighboring Southern's electrostars and even their 455s.

Yes - they are terrible, but the refurbished fleet's re-introduction several years ago was delayed specifically because supposedly accessibility compliant displays had to be fitted!

 

[TEW]

For the displays to be correct, the right PIS code needs to be given to the train crew via their schedule card. Unfortunately recently the correct PIS codes have just not been reliably provided to crews, often the standard codes are just printed, not taking into account any alterations. There are codes for a large number of different calling patterns, including common engineering work related alterations. There is a booklet with all the codes printed in, but it is several years old now, and it's not provided as standard to staff. Some depots are more proactive than others when it comes to sharing the right codes, and some staff are more proactive than others in finding them out and getting them in use. Simply displaying "SWR" is the fallback option, and it's better than displaying incorrect information, but not ideal. I've seen quite a few complaints from passengers about it, but it's clearly not considered a priority by management.

 

[43096]

Did anyone bother to correct the error - driver announcement, etc?

Guards have generally been announcing Whitton manually when I have used them during the strike. It has to be said the quality of the on-board announcements from the guards has been much better than normal during the strike.

 

[markymark2000]

What normally happens is the guard and driver both have a code for each working which is then entered into the PIS and everyone is happy, However during strikes trains do not run to their usual calling patterns so the pis code is missing from from the schedule card (same occurs during engineering works).

Why can't we have the destination display and the onboard information being controlled separately. That would solve all of these issues. If there are no auto announcements, or onboard stopping information, sobeit but at least one of the the bits of information is right.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why can't we have the destination display and the onboard information being controlled separately. That would solve all of these issues. If there are no auto announcements, or onboard stopping information, sobeit but at least one of the the bits of information is right.

They can be. You can enter any manual text on a Desiro, I have seen some funnies over the years.

 

[markymark2000]

They can be. You can enter any manual text on a Desiro, I have seen some funnies over the years.

In which case, shouldn't that be being used instead of these random and weird destinations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In which case, shouldn't that be being used instead of these random and weird destinations.

SWR is the default if nothing is set up. The one with the headcode was probably done manually.

 

[pompeyfan]

As a rule staff are not taught how to manually enter information after political messages were displayed in which people didn’t like. If it’s entered manually it’s because someone has had a play and a browse.

worth mentioning that it’s in the franchise spec that desiros will receive a PIS upgrade, I’d assume to something along the lines of the TPE or LNR/WMT system.

 

[markymark2000]

As a rule staff are not taught how to manually enter information after political messages were displayed in which people didn’t like. If it’s entered manually it’s because someone has had a play and a browse.

worth mentioning that it’s in the franchise spec that desiros will receive a PIS upgrade, I’d assume to something along the lines of the TPE or LNR/WMT system.

Partly understandable but also causes the confusion when the dests aren't done right. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. There must be a way to put in a set list like the destination changers on buses as a manual over-ride if there is no train service code.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Partly understandable but also causes the confusion when the dests aren't done right. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. There must be a way to put in a set list like the destination changers on buses as a manual over-ride if there is no train service code.

It would make a lot of sense to allow selection of a station to show as a simple destination where necessary. Guess the system doesn't offer that as it offers free text instead?

 

[markymark2000]

It would make a lot of sense to allow selection of a station to show as a simple destination where necessary. Guess the system doesn't offer that as it offers free text instead?

It's a bit of a poop system then isn't it to be fair. While the service number code thing is the best thing to go off, free text is always going to cause problems with people playing about with the system.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a bit of a oop: system then isn't it to be fair. While the service number code thing is the best thing to go off, free text is always going to cause problems with people playing about with the system.

Though even with a list of stations you can get sillies if someone is mucking about.

 

[markymark2000]

Though even with a list of stations you can get sillies if someone is mucking about.

You can but it's less likely if you keep on top of the destination list. Most of the 'silly' destinations are old ones or random now unserved destinations. These normally only pop up when the train is ECS though. You are less likely for a driver or guard to put up silly destinations if you have a destination list.

 

[pompeyfan]

If the system was similar to how I understand the 377 system works, you could enter an all stations stopper code, then manually deselect stations you’re not scheduled to call at. The updating and reissuing of PIS code booklets would also go a long way.

 

[Deepgreen]

For the displays to be correct, the right PIS code needs to be given to the train crew via their schedule card. Unfortunately recently the correct PIS codes have just not been reliably provided to crews, often the standard codes are just printed, not taking into account any alterations. There are codes for a large number of different calling patterns, including common engineering work related alterations. There is a booklet with all the codes printed in, but it is several years old now, and it's not provided as standard to staff. Some depots are more proactive than others when it comes to sharing the right codes, and some staff are more proactive than others in finding them out and getting them in use. Simply displaying "SWR" is the fallback option, and it's better than displaying incorrect information, but not ideal. I've seen quite a few complaints from passengers about it, but it's clearly not considered a priority by management.

Interesting information - thanks. Surely your last assertion must be wrong because when I complain about poor information they assure me that they take it very seriously!

 

[Deepgreen]

Though even with a list of stations you can get sillies if someone is mucking about.

I remember a few decades ago when I was taking a shot of a special at Victoria (Orient Express) the driver of the 73 that was to haul the ECS out changed the two character head-code from 'OE' to 'FO' when he saw me on the platform! Different times.