Extinction Rebellion transport disruption from 17/04/2019

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by reddragon, 16 Apr 2019.

  1. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    People with Asperger Syndrome generally have trouble with empathy and nuance which means they are often weak debaters. Despite her high profile for some 18 months now, I can't find any footage of her debating anyone or even having her views tested.

    Not many people would want to give both barrels to a shy 16 year old girl who has AS and OCD, with a monotone voice and disengaged eyes, which is why it's cynical for the movement to use her as some rallying point.

    I think she is a poor choice for the movement and I feel a bit sorry for her every time I see her sad face.
     
  2. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. Do you think that she has been used by the climate change movement?

    I also register my disagreements on your statement at the start about Aspergers.

    Would you say I am a good debater?
     
  3. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    I suspect she is being used to some degree, yes.

    Are you backing this up with scientific fact, or your sample of one?
     
  4. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    And yet she chooses to participate by speaking to the Extinction Rebellion. She could well have left it alone, but she actively came to the UK to speak to the movement.
     
  5. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Established Member

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    While people are debating the ethics and/or suitability of choice of spokesperson, is anyone actually listening to the message itself? First rule of denial - attempt to discredit the messenger in the mistaken belief it invalidates the message.
     
  6. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    A 16 year old telling politicians that their generation's future is in jeopardy? Sounds like William Hague to me.

    Whenever I see her I can't decide if I think it's just coincidence that she's dressed like a character from an Enid Blyton girls' school story, or if it's all part of an act.
     
  7. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    I was noticing that as well. There has only been selective engagements in the debate, which is unfortunate.

    This...
    ...hasn't been commented on. Yet side issues like "Does Miss Thunberg's OCD and Aspergers preclude her from being an effective voice" are readily looked at.
     
  8. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Established Member

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    This is kind of my point. Why does it in any way matter what she is wearing? Are we now really that shallow as a society?
     
  9. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    But that doesn’t preclude the possibility that she’s being used by the movement for their own ends.
     
  10. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Established Member

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    You could say that of anyone, who leads / fronts anything. Dave Grohl might be being used by Foo Fighters for their own ends, but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe in the music they’re producing!
     
  11. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    ...which is exactly why it’s a dumb idea to elevate a vacant-looking teenager with a developmental disorder to such a status within the movement - of course the message is important, but no meaningful change is likely to result from this choice.
     
  12. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    That’s such a facile statement it requires no rebuttal.
     
  13. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    Being curious, or suspicious, isn't being shallow.
     
  14. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Established Member

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    I am ignoring your deliberate choice of words, it just underlined my previous point.

    I think it speaks volumes that someone like Greta is rapidly becoming the face of the international movement, after decades-worth of scientists and more traditional ‘activists’ have at best been almost entirely ignored by the establishment, at worst laughed at.
     
  15. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Established Member

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    Actually I do find this exceptionally offensive, a most bigoted, moronic viewpoint.
     
  16. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    She does have an almost permanently vacant expression though, and it’s a fact she has a developmental disorder - that’s what Asperger Syndrome is.

    She shows almost no visual emotion whatsoever whenever she speaks, and I’ve been following this story closely. (The lack of visual emotion is likely to be a product of her Asperger Syndrome)

    Why is everyone rallying round her? She is saying nothing new.
     
  17. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Established Member

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    Perhaps people are hoping the more open-minded individuals in our political structures might be capable of seeing past her outward appearance and Aspergers and actually hear the words she’s saying.

    I’m a mid-thirties twenty-stone asthmatic with a permanent cold, premature greyness and a tendency to speak over-quietly due to natural shyness. Does that invalidate what I say on any particular subject? Just interested in your view on who is and isn’t worth listening to.
     
  18. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    So what does show the possibility that she is being used by the movement? She's got enough of an independent mind to start striking...


    Here's a fun idea: Listen to the words that people are saying, not focus on their "vacant eyes".


    Not relevent to the things that she says.

    Not relevent to the things that she says.

    Why does it matter? For whatever reason, she has managed to mobilise people which has meant climate change prevention gets more attention in the political sphere.
     
  19. Wilts Wanderer

    Wilts Wanderer Established Member

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    I do have a feeling her opposition to commercial air travel is potentially a factor that colours people’s views of her and by extension about what she is saying. She’s basically calling out anyone who flies as partly responsible for contributing to global emissions, be it for summer holidays, business travel etc.
     
  20. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    I’m not suggesting she is in any way unwilling, but rather that as a 16 year old, and particularly one with AS, she’s not likely to be good at understanding when she is being used, which makes her vulnerable. Her parents are both famous and have profiles of their own.

    The Beatles willingly turned up to play gigs and record album after album but they got used too, you know.

    Oratory is important. She isn’t saying anything new. It’s very important for people listening or watching a speaker to feel engaged and empathise with them. That’s why people do public speaking training. You can have a lovely speech on the paper but if people don’t connect with you then there’s not much point. The appeal of Thunberg is basically that she’s a willing kid.

    Very relevant to the potential impact of her words though - I don’t disagree with much of what she says, by the way.

    But she isn’t changing anyone’s mind, as far as I can see. And it frustrates me.

    I don’t have anything against her and I’m impressed with what she’s managed to do, but my concern is with the people around her and those who hold her on some pedestal. It’s unhealthy and will ultimately be counterproductive.
     
  21. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    I haven't yet seen any evidence that she is being used.

    Fun fact!

    Yet it doesn't seem to be preventing a message from getting across. We all know what she's saying.


    It is very frustrating. However, that doesn't mean it is her fault. Climate change protestors have always been largely ignored.

    Thank you for this comment. This has clarified a lot of things about your position. That's very helpful to me.
     
  22. reddragon

    reddragon Member

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    Statistically that is 44% of men and most train nuts! (runs for cover)
     
  23. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    I think you have to remember that she has deliberately chosen her particular high-profile role in life at present with a very large following, so I wonder if she should appear on the television programme "Hard Talk" to face the type of questioning used on that programme?
     
  24. 404250

    404250 Member

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    There's no problem with flying to promote the cause IMO, but maybe she could take the train/boat route in future to avoid criticism.
     
  25. deltic

    deltic Established Member

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    The answers that I have heard her give are refreshingly blunt so I am sure she would come out very well from such an interview
     
  26. deltic

    deltic Established Member

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    She does - she stopped flying a few years ago
     
  27. 404250

    404250 Member

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    Ah, ok. That's not what people were saying in this thread though.
     
  28. OneOffDave

    OneOffDave Member

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    That'd be great. I wonder if everyone else on the programme would be happy to carry out the interview in their second language too?

    It's good to see the forum's underlying ableism coming out as usual when any news story involving a disabled person is discussed
     
  29. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    Obviously you are not a regular watcher of "Hard Talk" as if you were, you would know that a very large number of those interviewed do not have English as their first language.

    I am at a total and utter loss to understand where your comment about disabled people is supposed to lead, as I made no mention about it in my post.
     
  30. Geezertronic

    Geezertronic Established Member

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    And it's also not good to see disabled discrimination. Why would you think that, just because a person is disabled, they could not participate in the discussed arena?
     

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