Extinction Rebellion transport disruption from 17/04/2019

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by reddragon, 16 Apr 2019.

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  1. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    I’m afraid that, as ever, reasonable protest has been taken over by some agitators who just want to cause trouble. I do look forward to them complaining about delays to services to get them home.

    As an aside, and not for the first time, these protestors who are so keen on saving the planet have left a load of rubbish in Westminster for someone else to clear up.

    I also had a wry smile when I saw a few of them yesterday morning getting ready with hundreds of signs / placards about protecting the planet etc. There was easily a couple of trees worth of wood used to make the handles / support for the signs. I pointed it out to one of the sign organisers who tried to answer, and his mouth moved a bit, but no words came out.
     
  2. ooo

    ooo Member

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    People have days off. I read in the evening standard or the metro (can't remember which) about one protestor who had taken 2 weeks off work for it.
     
  3. DerekC

    DerekC Member

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    Disappointing reaction from this forum … "idiots" .."great unwashed" … "Luddites" … "extremists" … "absurd" ….

    Doesn't anyone else read the facts and worry about what to do about this issue? I have complete sympathy with what they are trying to achieve, even if this doesn't seem to be the right way to go about it.
     
  4. Class 172 Fan

    Class 172 Fan Member

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    Candidates for the Darwin Award maybe
     
  5. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    You have every right to your opinions, but I don't think you will find many here who agree with you. In my opinion, they are just a useless bunch of sh*t stirrers.
     
  6. Geezertronic

    Geezertronic Established Member

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    Don't you see the irony that their lawless protests are actually causing excess amounts of pollution rather than preventing it? It's laughable really - the idiots really are out in force

    Edit: the idiots are out in force in London
     
  7. BJames

    BJames Member

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    I know someone who intends to be taking part in this tomorrow. There is a potential for them to attempt to glue themselves to the tubes (or the top of them), much like what has happened to the Shell Building and lorries on Waterloo Bridge this week - when I mentioned awareness of the power supply to them, there was a vague mention of it being third rail powered.

    Ultimately they want to shut down all tube lines, although this is more likely to only affect Zone 1 in reality. I agree with the cause, but it's stretching it by targeting the tube, although I understand why they're doing it. Their target is getting as many arrested as possible in order to demonstrate their cause, and they're certainly going the right way about getting arrested.
     
  8. wensley

    wensley Established Member

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    I have wasted a significant proportion of my working day today reading / hearing about the facts around the protest about whatever idiocy is planned tomorrow and have used language significant stronger than you admonish from previous posts :lol:

    Ultimately this is a potentially dangerous and needlessly disruptive stunt in the lead-up to one of the busiest weekends of the year for people trying to get away from London. I can’t see them gaining much support if this encroaches into ruining the general public’s nice, long four-day weekend.
     
  9. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

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    Personally, I have immense sympathy for environmental causes, and huge concern about a whole range of environmental issues. Indeed, I'd say that climate change may well be the most important issue facing humanity, and the reaction of Governments around the World is, on the whole, not remotely sufficient.

    But, even aside from the rather daft tactics in Extinction Rebellion's demonstrations, their demands are absurd:

    The UK Government, so far as I can tell, is already telling the truth. It may not be taking as much action as arguably needs to be done, but it doesn't appear to be hiding the facts.

    Totally unrealistic. Getting the UK contribution to greenhouse emissions to zero by - say - 2050 - might be do-able (I'm not fully certain) but it would be next to impossible to replace all the required infrastructure within the 6 years that Extinction Rebellion are demanding. And besides, that's only the UK's contribution. The UK Government is not responsible and has only limited influence on the 98.8% of greenhouse gas emissions that aren't from the UK (2014 figures). Besides, I doubt that reducing emissions to zero is necessary. A significant reduction in Worldwide emissions is certainly urgently required, but there will certainly be some non-zero level of emissions that would be sustainable without a severe impact on climate.


    Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. If the Government should be lead by anything, it's scientific evidence, as communicated by scientists, and by what is technologically/economically feasible (as communicated by scientists, engineers, business people, economists, etc.) - not by some 'Citizens Assembly' (whatever that means, but almost certainly means people who won't have the required scientific/technical understanding to advise correctly).
     
    Last edited: 16 Apr 2019
  10. BJames

    BJames Member

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    Completely agreed. It is not possible to do this in 6 years - the main focus should remain on the Paris Agreement, where 195 countries around the world are trying to limit the global temperature rise to 2 degrees above pre-industrial levels, with an aim to limit to 1.5 degrees. This is potentially do-able with a huge effort from the government, but certainly not in this time.

    In the meantime, I understand what they are trying to get across - but how far are they going to go? The way that they are escalating disruption is interesting as it will demand action at some point, if they continue in this way (exactly what they are trying to do), but will it lead to the resolution that they are hoping for? Disruption of the rail and tube around London is an attempt to gain full attention from citizens and governmental figures, who may be slightly less affected by protests that block traffic. Someone travelling from south London to Canary Wharf to work is unlikely to be significantly fazed by a disruption to bus routes in the Oxford Circus area.
     
  11. GusB

    GusB Established Member

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    Oh, for goodness sake. There are any number of reasons why someone may not be at work. Not everyone works Monday to Friday, nine to five. People take holidays, have days off, work night shift, are retired etc... Not everyone there was an unemployed waster, as you seem to be insinuating.

    They have succeeded in generating a fair bit of outrage, on this forum at least. People are talking about it. Job done.

    For the record, I have sympathy with the cause, but I don't agree that it's a good idea to bring public transport to a halt.
     
  12. Greg Read

    Greg Read Member

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  13. swills

    swills Established Member

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    Well reading the stories in the papers etc, they, well most will not be 9 to 5 , as it seems this is planned to go on for weeks, or so it suggests, if they work nights, then they would not be fit for work after this, yes they may have taken leave to do it, which is a bit of a waste of annual leave ! not sure he was even suggesting they were 'unemployed waters' but doing a good job wasting everyone else's time, and all the traffic snarled up, talk about making the problem worse, and what does stopping public transport actually do? well apart from making people think, I might get delayed today by this, maybe I will drive my car to work instead of getting the train.
     
  14. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    I walked along the South Bank last night and they were dotted around the place, having what appeared to be a party on one bridge and playing loud music (hopefully solar charged batteries during daylight!). Roads were closed around the Houses of Parliament but it looked very empty there despite a few tents and banners. Perhaps they were staying in nearby hotels or are just 9-5 protesters? In which case, I hope they've allowed for their own travel before causing the disruption.
     
  15. GusB

    GusB Established Member

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    That's why I don't agree that bringing public transport to a halt is a good idea. It is counter-productive in that some people will decide to drive instead of taking their usual commute.
     
  16. broadgage

    broadgage Member

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    I expect that they do have enough knowledge to avoid being killed.
    I can think of many ways by which great disruption can be caused on the underground without going on the track.
    Being kicked to death by a mob of enraged commuters might be a greater risk.

    I agree that targeting public transport is daft and counter productive.
     
  17. Bromley boy

    Bromley boy Established Member

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    delete please
     
    Last edited: 17 Apr 2019
  18. Pete_uk

    Pete_uk Member

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    So what about the 1200+ coal fired power stations China is going to build?

    Once these people go home they will drive their cars, expect goods and services to be delivered and buy their phones reliant on materials dug out the ground by children.
     
  19. 700007

    700007 Member

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    Part of this post reiterates things that other like minded forum users have said in response to this thread, because it's true and I agree with it fully.

    It doesn't make sense to disrupt public transport. The tube has been electrified and creates no direct emissions from the movement of trains at all and has been proudly doing so for however many decades now. The Mayor of London has also ordered all new double decker buses ordered post 2017 to be hybrid Euro VI compliant. This means that those red London buses you see are amongst the cleanest vehicles in the UK as far as current technology is concerned. Most tenders that get awarded now as well see existing older buses being modified to being Euro VI compliant as well. All new single decker buses from late 2016 have also had to be either zero emissions if they go into zone 1 (see hydrogen buses on route RV1 - but only until June:lol:<D) or fully electric buses on routes 46, 70, 153, 360, 507, 521 and C1. Those that don't go into zone 1 are still equipped with stop-start technology to keep emissions as to a low when idle.

    TfL also has this new hobby where they rip out gyratories and put traffic calming measures and usually block up one side to be restricted to pedestrian and cycling traffic only (see Archway, Elephant & Castle etc.). Every other road is now being turned into a cycle way of some sort.

    Just last Monday the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) started up in addition to T-charge. Whilst initially it covers the Congestion Charge area it is planned to roll out to the North and South Circular Road within a year or two.

    As much as I personally don't like the Mayor of London, his administration and Boris's have both planned and delivered to reduce air emissions a lot in a short space of time. The EXR group seems to take no note of this and refuses to award any credit to this.

    All of the protests they are doing are just disruptive and in some cases that is planned, highly dangerous for everyone involved. I genuinely hope rail staff get the support they need to cope with this over the next couple of weeks.

    Asking for a 2025 zero carbon emissions is very unrealistic. Of course climate change is a problem but the government has widely addressed this issue. It costs too much money to do it in six years. These people have no understanding of money or economic welfare. Only so much money gets thrown at this cause. The rest of it has to go to higher priority things such as the NHS, the Police, funding new housing and tackling day to day social injustices. And Brexit ;). The more you allocate to climate change, the less there is for the rest of us which creates more problems than it solves.

    It doesn't also make sense to target regular day to day people who are trying to go about their lives. Clearly the target for this protest are politicians and the government. So why not confine it to Parliament Square? And furthermore, why are you protesting when Parliament is on recess?! Nobody relevant or in charge will care or address this issue for another week at least.
     
  20. 404250

    404250 Member

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    So is the tube running ok this morning?
     
  21. Realfish

    Realfish Member

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    They're not up yet. They'll surface at around 11:00
     
  22. 404250

    404250 Member

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    Bit pointless disrupting it after everyone has got to work - won't hit the economy nearly as much stopping people getting home.
     
  23. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    They need the school /university holidays to make the maximise the turnout.
     
  24. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    If they do it too early they'll disrupt other protesters travelling in!
     
  25. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Whilst I agree with their concern about the issue, I have no sympathy whatsoever with people disrupting public transport to highlight it. This is just "cutting off your nose to spite your face".
     
  26. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    Surprised any of them are Intelligent enough to think about that tbh.
     
  27. reddragon

    reddragon Member

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    I was expecting, well hoping maybe to read some balanced debate this morning!

    Your house is on fire, it is burning. If you continue to do nothing or it will burn down.

    The last 10 years were the hottest ever, as were the last 3. Last year was the hottest on record and this year is hotter. The effects are catastrophic for all of us and are soon to become irreversible.

    Extreme weather events that used to happen every so often now occur regularly and will get far worse. They cost significantly more than some protesting. Lines such as Conwy Valley will be lost forever.

    Sea levels are rising, no longer by fractions of a millimetre per year, but by millimetres and soon to be centimetres per year. Ice is melting at 10 times the predicted level from above and underneath. The railway trough Dawlish has a finite life before it is lost in not centuries but decades.

    School children are striking on Fridays to tell you, Extinction Rebellion have successfully got everyone talking. They are backed by Scientists, Climate experts, Academics and Engineers. These people are very well informed and very well-funded. They will not stop until you listen and act.

    Government and fossil businesses are not telling the truth. They are lying to you, in cahoots with some of the press. Do not be fooled. Large Investors are pulling out of fossil fuel investments as fast as they can, and they know to well the cost if they do not switch their funds!

    The UK Government pay 1000’s of times as much subsidy into fossil fuels than renewables, have banned on shore wind, cut grants and support. The Oil industry spends £100’s of millions per year trying to stop electrification and renewables by buying up & stopping ideas and spreading fake information to you all. Get real! They are not acting; they are dragging their feet and blocking progress a lot by pushing for a date well after almost every other country on planet earth. UK says no fossil transport from 2040. The rest of the world has 2025-2030 as a date.

    I have switched to renewable energy for heat & power and an electric car. It has not come at a cost to me, it has saved me money as it is cheaper in so many ways.

    You can all switch to save the planet and to save money, if not the planet maybe some railway line you hold dear.

    Instead of challenging me or these protesters, challenge yourselves to do something and sooner than later!
     
  28. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    No, they were hottest on record. Records only began in 1850. So can we not exaggerate please.

    Temperature fluctuations are entirely normal. You could grow wine in Newcastle in the 1400's, yet the Thames used to freeze solid in the 1700's.

    By all means let's look after the planet, but we don't need alarmism and anarchists using it as an excuse to disrupt the lives of normal citizens.
     
  29. Geezertronic

    Geezertronic Established Member

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    What these protests are doing is feeding the flames of the fire. Their disruptive protests are causing more pollution, not only in the vicinity of their protests but also for the vehicles that are sitting there delayed, the police, the courts (eventually lets hope), the hospitals etc... but they are too thick to see it that way
     
  30. reddragon

    reddragon Member

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    Ha, 4 tube lines down due to signal failures! No glue needed except maybe for the signalling system!
     
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