Extinction Rebellion transport disruption from 17/04/2019

[reddragon]

Firstly, that attitude is why normal people are against the stupidity of Extenction Rebellion. Extinction Rebellion are not for Climate Change despite what they say, they are for causing maximum disruption to normal people.

Secondly, just because people can see Extinction Rebellion for what they actually are doesn't mean that a) they are "basically small minded selfish people who only care about themselves and have no interest in any facts or the future", or that b) they don't care about climate change. We all should care about climate change but the small minded selfish people are those that glue themselves, make normal peoples lives a misery, and sit on top of tube trains in the false name of climate change. As mentioned before, there is a political option that can be taken but civil unrest seems to be the successful goal of Extinction Rebellion with climate change as a secondary consideration to warrant their despicable behaviour.

Can you imagine the civil unrest when the sea defences in Hull break and the population are displaced, probably along with many other east coast communities & parts of London?

 

[richa2002]

Can you imagine the civil unrest when the sea defences in Hull break and the population are displaced, probably along with many other east coast communities & parts of London?

It's not for ANYONE to be so arrogant to think that they are so right that they are able to bypass the democratic process (what's left of it) and break the law. If your arguments are so self-evident and based on fact, you should have no trouble convincing people via the democratic system.

 

[Bantamzen]

The term head in sand applies widely across all sectors in society.

This is not scaremongers, lefties or whatever but Scientist and Engineers who know facts.

The growing problem is that the advanced research is showing much scarier stuff than to peer checked published research. I get this with bridge inspections. The initial inspection shows it to be bad, but you can see its far worse but the business is not interested until the further assessments are done and confirm this. Same with this climate emergency. The assessments show significant tipping points but politician prefer to pretend they don't exist until the reports is peer checked, reviewed, delayed until after the election then published by which time we have run out of time.

But the facts will not come out and be actioned by middle aged men being chased up and down on the roofs of tube trains. XR, or in reality a new group must now distance themselves from this kind of meaningless protest, and start to get themselves into positions of power to start driving change from the top down, whilst finding ways to help the public in general to reduce their individual impact without significantly worsening their lifestyles and wellbeing.

The trouble is that people like XR are more interested in a bit of cheap publicity than putting in the work to really drive change. Well they are getting that, and now some things they did not expect.

 

[Geezertronic]

Can you imagine the civil unrest when the sea defences in Hull break and the population are displaced, probably along with many other east coast communities & parts of London?

What does that have to do with idiots on the street causing trouble in the so called name of Extinction Rebellion and climate change?

 

[DarloRich]

What does that have to do with idiots on the street causing trouble in the so called name of Extinction Rebellion and climate change?

whataboutery and deflection of the standard displayed by Corbyn fans!

 

[bb21]

The term head in sand applies widely across all sectors in society.

This is not scaremongers, lefties or whatever but Scientist and Engineers who know facts.

The growing problem is that the advanced research is showing much scarier stuff than to peer checked published research. I get this with bridge inspections. The initial inspection shows it to be bad, but you can see its far worse but the business is not interested until the further assessments are done and confirm this. Same with this climate emergency. The assessments show significant tipping points but politician prefer to pretend they don't exist until the reports is peer checked, reviewed, delayed until after the election then published by which time we have run out of time.

If this "much scarier stuff" is actually scientifically sound, it would not take long for it to get its proper peer reviews and be in the official domain. It would be a major breakthrough.

Speaking as one who has spent many years in scientific research, I will believe it when properly peer reviewed articles are published in credible journals.

You insinuating that scientists are swayed by politicians when they publish their research results is frankly, downright ignorant.

 

[yorkie]

Apparently this was not approved by XR and huge efforts were made to stop this group doing such a daft thing!

Just a reminder of what you previously said:

XR has 3 aims and no policies other than acting in a non-violent way. Devolved groups, no hierarchic structure ....

XR ... have no 'command' structure and leave it to the local groups to do their own things autonomously and 'wing it' as they go along ...

Is it really a good idea to be encouraging people to do all sorts of reckless i acts, which are designed to disrupt public transport and discourage the general public from supporting them?

I see they talk about freedom, as if the freedom to cause misery and disruption to others, and deny people their freedoms, is a good thing.

Their rhetoric is highly questionable.

I do not own a car and I do try to do what I can to be environmentally friendly and support the aims for us to live more sustainably but I am also realistic about how that should be achieved. Alienating people is not a good way forward. I therefore do not support these extremists, who are encouraging anarchism. Anarchists are very dangerous and so I will refuse to support people who are allied with them just because some of their aims may seem like a good idea.

I think @reddragon should consider how the best way to achieve change is. Is it really a good idea to alienate people, target public transport, and try to replace democracy with anarchism?

 

[reddragon]

If this "much scarier stuff" is actually scientifically sound, it would not take long for it to get its proper peer reviews and be in the official domain. It would be a major breakthrough.

Speaking as one who has spent many years in scientific research, I will believe it when properly peer reviewed articles are published in credible journals.

You insinuating that scientists are swayed by politicians when they publish their research results is frankly, downright ignorant.

Really?

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...cientists-climate-crisis-trump-administration

Six whistleblowers and ex-government scientists describe how the Trump administration made them bury climate science – and why they won’t stay quiet

by Oliver Milman

From weakening vehicle emissions to blocking warnings about how coastal parks could flood or the impact on the Arctic, the Trump administration is accused of muzzling climate science.

Here six whistleblowers and former government scientists describe being sidelined by the administration – and why they won’t be quiet.

 

[reddragon]

Is it really a good idea to be encouraging people to do all sorts of reckless i acts, which are designed to disrupt public transport and discourage the general public from supporting them?

I see they talk about freedom, as if the freedom to cause misery and disruption to others, and deny people their freedoms, is a good thing.

Their rhetoric is highly questionable.

I do not own a car and I do try to do what I can to be environmentally friendly and support the aims for us to live more sustainably but I am also realistic about how that should be achieved. Alienating people is not a good way forward. I therefore do not support these extremists, who are encouraging anarchism. Anarchists are very dangerous and so I will refuse to support people who are allied with them just because some of their aims may seem like a good idea.

I think @reddragon should consider how the best way to achieve change is. Is it really a good idea to alienate people, target public transport, and try to replace democracy with anarchism?

I totally agree with you.

Fascinating how the poor working class is being turned on the middle classes to avoid the issue widely across the press and by politicians isn't it!

 

[Esker-pades]

It is well recognised that when women (and hence family units) become emancipated, with security of income, health etc, then birth rates drop dramatically. The same as has happened here over the last 50 to 100 years, in fact. Pointing a finger at family sizes elsewhere doesn't excuse continuing to pollute.
The National Front would be proud to see a lot of the stuff about population and family size up-thread. It misses the point completely, while providing no excuse for not doing what we can to reduce the problem.

As XR have no policy on the matter, I'm really not sure why it is being discussed here. There's no point jumping down my throat for assuming I have an opinion that I haven't stated.

 

[306024]

You insinuating that scientists are swayed by politicians when they publish their research results is frankly, downright ignorant.

Obviously you haven't seen the episode of Yes Minister with the Henderson Report where Jim Hacker does exactly that. As Yes Minister is more true to life than real life I’m happy to believe that

 

[LOL The Irony]

Weren't we being warned 15 years ago that what was then the seaside would be underwater in 10 years?

 

[bb21]

Really?

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...cientists-climate-crisis-trump-administration

Are you now saying that the American president has power over all the credible scientific journals in the world? Unbelievable stuff. There are plenty of publications they can sent their research results to.

 

[reddragon]

Weren't we being warned 15 years ago that what was then the seaside would be underwater in 10 years?

And many seasides have already been lost along with coastal homes due to sea level rise and storm erosion. Dawlish was an excellent example.

 

[bb21]

Obviously you haven't seen the episode of Yes Minister with the Henderson Report where Jim Hacker does exactly that. As Yes Minister is more true to life than real life I’m happy to believe that

Oh yes, that is an awesome programme.

But scientists don't have to work for the government and have multiple avenues where their research results can be validated and published.

 

[Meerkat]

Weren't we being warned 15 years ago that what was then the seaside would be underwater in 10 years?

Yeah but it wouldn’t matter because we would all be living in underwater cities.
Where’s my flying car!

 

[Master29]

Why would they not target motorways and busy roads seeing as the bulk of the problem is single person usage of 4x4`s and the like which is bloody daft anyway. Totally pointless targeting the transport network which is as countless times been pointed out far greener surely. Whilst I have sympathy with the cause it`s just a pointless exhibition which wins them no friends and thus achieves nothing. Is it because as the saying goes, no publicity is bad publicity?

 

[Bald Rick]

And many seasides have already been lost along with coastal homes due to sea level rise and storm erosion. Dawlish was an excellent example.

Last time I looked, Dawlish was still there.

 

[Darandio]

Last time I looked, Dawlish was still there.

I've actually just been watching a live camera from there. Although I suppose it could have been pre-recorded.

 

[Master29]

Last time I looked, Dawlish was still there.

At a cost.....

 

[westv]

Really?

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...cientists-climate-crisis-trump-administration

Not quite sure how you can compare proper scientific peer review and Trump!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Totally mindless and dangerous action today on the jubilee line...

 

[AlterEgo]

Apparently this was not approved by XR and huge efforts were made to stop this group doing such a daft thing!

This morning the XR supporters are condemning their actions as stupid. #owngoal

XR are either an organisation that can approve or condemn acts committed by people in its name or it isn’t.

Which is it?

 

[AlterEgo]

It's not for ANYONE to be so arrogant to think that they are so right that they are able to bypass the democratic process (what's left of it) and break the law. If your arguments are so self-evident and based on fact, you should have no trouble convincing people via the democratic system.

I don’t support XR but it’s terribly naive to suggest that if your idea’s good enough, democracy will endorse it, with no exceptions.

 

[telstarbox]

XR are either an organisation that can approve or condemn acts committed by people in its name or it isn’t.

Which is it?

It's an association of groups rather than a single monolithic group.

 

[Cletus]

Why would they not target motorways and busy roads seeing as the bulk of the problem is single person usage of 4x4`s and the like which is bloody daft anyway. Totally pointless targeting the transport network which is as countless times been pointed out far greener surely. Whilst I have sympathy with the cause it`s just a pointless exhibition which wins them no friends and thus achieves nothing. Is it because as the saying goes, no publicity is bad publicity?

They tried to target Dover docks the other week, but not many turned up (there were more police) and the world in general hardly noticed. Too far from London for them to go to I suppose.
https://www.independent.co.uk/envir...t-arrest-elderly-climate-change-a9114931.html

 

[edwin_m]

Totally mindless and dangerous action today on the jubilee line...

Jubilee tube stock has a smooth curved top and very little to hold onto. If someone had fallen several metres on the non-platform side onto the adjacent track then this could have got really nasty, even if the live rail had been turned off. The people attempting to pull the protesters off the train would then also be in hot water.

 

[Tetchytyke]

But scientists don't have to work for the government and have multiple avenues where their research results can be validated and published.

Without wanting to go all conspiracy theorist, we both know that that's not really true.

Universities remain hugely dependent on Government funding, and academics who don't toe the line won't get kept on. Job security in academia is terrible, with widespread use of zero hours and short-term contracts.

Universities that don't rely on Government funding instead rely on funding from pharmaceutical and chemical companies, and even tobacco companies in the case of my alma mater.

In either case, researchers who don't find what their funders want them to probably won't get a further grant.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's an association of groups rather than a single monolithic group.

I know that, but given that fact the leadership cannot on the one had wash its hands of actions it disagrees with, yet on the other, claim full PR credit for those with better popular support.

 

[AlterEgo]

Jubilee tube stock has a smooth curved top and very little to hold onto. If someone had fallen several metres on the non-platform side onto the adjacent track then this could have got really nasty, even if the live rail had been turned off. The people attempting to pull the protesters off the train would then also be in hot water.

There is no adjacent track there. The next one is the DLR which is behind a fence. No chance of falling into it.