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Extinction Rebellion transport disruption from 17/04/2019

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bb21

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Without wanting to go all conspiracy theorist, we both know that that's not really true.

Universities remain hugely dependent on Government funding, and academics who don't toe the line won't get kept on. Job security in academia is terrible, with widespread use of zero hours and short-term contracts.

Universities that don't rely on Government funding instead rely on funding from pharmaceutical and chemical companies, and even tobacco companies in the case of my alma mater.

In either case, researchers who don't find what their funders want them to probably won't get a further grant.

At the lower end of the spectrum, yes, so you're probably correct. At the higher end with more established senior researchers, I cannot agree.

Yes, you probably have too much a dose of scepticism.
 
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Master29

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Without wanting to go all conspiracy theorist, we both know that that's not really true.

Universities remain hugely dependent on Government funding, and academics who don't toe the line won't get kept on. Job security in academia is terrible, with widespread use of zero hours and short-term contracts.

Universities that don't rely on Government funding instead rely on funding from pharmaceutical and chemical companies, and even tobacco companies in the case of my alma mater.

In either case, researchers who don't find what their funders want them to probably won't get a further grant.
..And this is pretty much the crux of the matter.
 

Geezertronic

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Common sense does not flow through the veins of Extinction Rebellion.

Mind you, nor does it flow through the veins of the Mayor of London who is blaming Brexit for the civil disorder in London. So there you have it, Brexit is to blame for climate change too according to Sadiq Khan :lol:
 
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I love the fact that XR supporters keep arguing that they are exercising their right to lawful protest.

No you are not; nobody has the right to trespass on the railway. it has been a criminal offence for at least 100 years.
 

edwin_m

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Common sense does not flow through the veins of Extinction Rebellion.

Mind you, nor does it flow through the veins of the Mayor of London who is blaming Brexit for the civil disorder in London. So there you have it, Brexit is to blame for climate change too according to Sadiq Khan :lol:
Hardly surprising when the views of the 48% in 2016, probably more than 50% by now according to the last few dozen opinion polls, are being ridden over roughshod by a government with a mandate that is tenuous at best. The Remain vote in London has always been well over 50%.

And swapping trade with our nearest neighbours for trade with former colonies in other continents isn't going to be good for the climate. Even with services, people have to travel between supplier and customer countries. The saving grace on that front is that the extra trade envisaged by the Brexit boosters is actually pure fantasy.
 

Busaholic

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There'll be some among the Extinction Rebellion mainstays (better not say leadership) who'll not be averse to creating a martyr for the cause, though preferably not themselves of course! They are unlikely to face police brutality ala Rodney King, so a fool on a tube train roof may have to do.
 

AndrewE

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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/17/london-tube-protest-divides-extinction-rebellion says
'It has been polarising': tube protest divides Extinction Rebellion
Disrupting London trains was opposed by 72% of activists in poll, but has boosted coverage.
The climate protests during which one activist was dragged from the roof of a London Underground train by angry commuters had been discussed within Extinction Rebellion [XR] for weeks. But it was not until Wednesday morning, when a note was posted on the group’s website, that a decision appeared to have been taken.

In the hours that followed there was a sometimes fractious debate among XR supporters. More than 3,700 people responded to an online poll circulated on the group’s social media networks with 72% saying they were opposed to the action “no matter how it is done”.

Those findings were fed back to the decentralised groups planning the action on Wednesday afternoon and, according to one source, some backed down while others determined to press ahead.
Those opposed feared the action, taken against what they said were the wishes of the overwhelming majority, would demoralise activists and raised questions about the group’s democratic decision-making processes.

More fundamentally, they argued that the targeting of public transport – rather than roads, airports or financial institutions hit earlier in the week – confused their message.
so a large majority of the ER people agree with the majority of us too!
 

DarloRich

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hey XR job shy, soap dodgers:

Want to glue yourself to something? Why not take a walk around the rich, posh bits of London and glue yourself to a Ferrari or Range Rover. Oh, hang on, that wont get you as much coverage as gluing yourself to the DLR or dancing about on top of a rush hour tube train upsetting the kind of normal people you hope to persuade to support your cause. Silly me.......................
 

AndrewE

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hey XR job shy, soap dodgers:
Any justification for that cheap jibe? Boris's father, lots of elderly middle class people are supporting them, in fact it is remarkable how they have got people from across the social spectrum involved.
 

DarloRich

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Any justification for that cheap jibe? Boris's father, lots of elderly middle class people are supporting them, in fact it is remarkable how they have got people from across the social spectrum involved.

You have hit on the central point: it is remarkable how many of them are firmly privileged white middle or upper middle class people. I have no issue with the message they are presenting. It seems plausible. I do have an issue with their behavior.

Oh, I notice no disagreement with my point................
 

Darandio

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Any justification for that cheap jibe? Boris's father, lots of elderly middle class people are supporting them, in fact it is remarkable how they have got people from across the social spectrum involved.

Who cares? Do you actually care what names people give them or is it another case of being offended on behalf of them? I can think of much worse things to call them.
 

Esker-pades

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hey XR job shy, soap dodgers:

Want to glue yourself to something? Why not take a walk around the rich, posh bits of London and glue yourself to a Ferrari or Range Rover. Oh, hang on, that wont get you as much coverage as gluing yourself to the DLR or dancing about on top of a rush hour tube train upsetting the kind of normal people you hope to persuade to support your cause. Silly me.......................
They've glued themselves to other things such as buildings of fossil fuel companies, or govenment buildings.

I agree, gluing oneself to a tube train to protest against Climate Change is silly, but then so do a lot of Extinction Rebellion.
 

Kite159

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They've glued themselves to other things such as buildings of fossil fuel companies, or govenment buildings.

I agree, gluing oneself to a tube train to protest against Climate Change is silly, but then so do a lot of Extinction Rebellion.

Is this the same group who earlier in the year glued themselves to an office building of an oil company only to find out said company moved out a few months earlier and some other company moved in and got upset
 

Esker-pades

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Is this the same group who earlier in the year glued themselves to an office building of an oil company only to find out said company moved out a few months earlier and some other company moved in and got upset
I have no idea. It's probably quite easy to find out (use a tax-paying search engine of your choice).
 

HOOVER29

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Fake news

I have a white petrol VW
My brother has a blue diesel VW
My parents have a grey diesel VW
my neighbor has a red electric VW



I quite agree, obvious troll is obvious

My nice newish silver VW Golf diesel has no badges on it describing it as a diesel anywhere on the car.
Just days Golf on the rear hatch.
 

Darandio

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My nice newish silver VW Golf diesel has no badges on it describing it as a diesel anywhere on the car.
Just days Golf on the rear hatch.

Yet the majority do, certainly on the GTD model despite one contributor claiming they didn't.
 

headshot119

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My nice newish silver VW Golf diesel has no badges on it describing it as a diesel anywhere on the car.
Just days Golf on the rear hatch.

My point to the original poster was that he was telling everyone that the colour of the car told you what fuel source it used. In a survey 100%* of cars didn't match what he said they would. Not that they did or didn't have badges on them.

A survey of four vehicles.
 

reddragon

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My point to the original poster was that he was telling everyone that the colour of the car told you what fuel source it used. In a survey 100%* of cars didn't match what he said they would. Not that they did or didn't have badges on them.

A survey of four vehicles.
All Golf GTEs have blue badges and a blue strip on the grill and on the skirting. The Passat GTE is the same. (link for image)
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/volkswagen/golf-gte

The e-Golf is similar but adds blue accents in the headlights.(link for image)
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/volkswagen-cuts-price-e-golf-£2765

Petrol golfs have the badge, trim and accents in red. (link for image)
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/105734/new-volkswagen-golf-gti-tcr-2019-review

The Golf GTD models used to have black trims and badges, but along with the R are now silver or match the body colour or no markings at all to keep the fact that they are diesels more discreet.
 

headshot119

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All Golf GTEs have blue badges and a blue strip on the grill and on the skirting. The Passat GTE is the same. (link for image)
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/volkswagen/golf-gte

The e-Golf is similar but adds blue accents in the headlights.(link for image)
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/volkswagen-cuts-price-e-golf-£2765

Petrol golfs have the badge, trim and accents in red. (link for image)
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/105734/new-volkswagen-golf-gti-tcr-2019-review

The Golf GTD models used to have black trims and badges, but along with the R are now silver or match the body colour or no markings at all to keep the fact that they are diesels more discreet.

So you're only talking about the relatively new VWs, and you're not talking about the paint colour (edit - As in the paint colour of the entire car) as you implied originally, but very subtle differences.

I still don't genuinely believe that you know whether or not a car has a diesel engine when you are driving along and making the decision to let it out or not.
 

Starmill

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800 comments later on this forum we are now talking about climate change. I would suggest that this was their objective and that they've succeeded in it.

If you dislike the protestors, fine. That's up to you. But I would say that they have noble aims and they've achieved one of them demonstrably - we wouldn't all be here discussing it if they hadn't.

What we are all obliged to do now is react. We need to set out our personal commitment to a low carbon future. We need to look at:

- Doing less driving. Ideally we should all drive only when there is no alternative. Lobby for better public transport, and pay for it personally. If you've got money, look at driving electric - especially as the second-hand electric vehicle market is slowly getting going.
- Taking fewer flights. Ideally we should never fly, but some people will need to. Avoid flights between two GB airports, and try to limit long-haul to one return journey annually. Lobby for better rights for international rail passengers. Purchase carbon offsets, especially looking for the reputable tree planting ones.
- Eating less meat. Ideally we should look to become vegetarian, and try to adopt low-carbon meat substitutes grown sustainably. That's a huge change for most people, so it should be phased in. Cut meat down so you have 3 vegetarian days a week, then 4 then 5 then 6. Also consider trying to become pescatarian. Think about where you might make or buy the best of plant-based foods.
- Voting. We should vote for the candidates that we judge to have the best environmental manifesto and track record. When you lobby your sitting representatives, write to them to ask what they're doing practically to support sustainability and the low-carbon future. Cast a vote in every election where you're eligible.

If there are things you can't change in the short term, look at whether you can change them in the long term instead. If you can't change them now, you can look at offsetting your atmospheric carbon emissions. These are just the start, and lots of people will think that one or all of these are anathema. But they are capable of making progress towards them and disliking them and putting up with them. The change in behaviour will soon become learned and after a couple of years might even bring new benefits. The more money you've got at your disposal, the more capacity you have to meet the above goals, which I do not approve of really, but it's the reality for the moment. If you run a business or if you're a manager, think about what your firm is doing to reduce carbon emissions. Is it enough? Is more practical? Can you spend a bit more on it? If you're an employee, can you point out your priority on the business' carbon sustainability to your manager?

Everyone has a responsibility to adopt some goals in their personal life. I am committed to the four I've set out very briefly above.

PS Doing the above is a lot more credible than complaining about people taking direct action which you disagree with. The police and the justice system are there to deal with them.
 
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Darandio

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The Golf GTD models used to have black trims and badges, but along with the R are now silver or match the body colour or no markings at all to keep the fact that they are diesels more discreet.

In 2009 the Golf GTD had silver badges at the back and front. In 2019 the Golf GTD has silver badges at the back and front and is also branded on the side. A new GTD has more branding, not less and not any more discreet than a decade ago.
 

Meerkat

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- Eating less meat. Ideally we should look to become vegetarian, and try to adopt low-carbon meat substitutes grown sustainably. That's a huge change for most people, so it should be phased in. Cut meat down so you have 3 vegetarian days a week, then 4 then 5 then 6. Also consider trying to become pescatarian. Think about where you might make or buy the best of plant-based foods.

Less meat, and less beef in particular, but eating meat is natural for human beings.
 

NoMorePacers

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800 comments later on this forum we are now talking about climate change. I would suggest that this was their objective and that they've succeeded in it.

If you dislike the protestors, fine. That's up to you. But I would say that they have noble aims and they've achieved one of them demonstrably - we wouldn't all be here discussing it if they hadn't.

What we are all obliged to do now is react. We need to set out our personal commitment to a low carbon future. We need to look at:

- Doing less driving. Ideally we should all drive only when there is no alternative. Lobby for better public transport, and pay for it personally. If you've got money, look at driving electric - especially as the second-hand electric vehicle market is slowly getting going.
- Taking fewer flights. Ideally we should never fly, but some people will need to. Avoid flights between two GB airports, and try to limit long-haul to one return journey annually. Lobby for better rights for international rail passengers. Purchase carbon offsets, especially looking for the reputable tree planting ones.
- Eating less meat. Ideally we should look to become vegetarian, and try to adopt low-carbon meat substitutes grown sustainably. That's a huge change for most people, so it should be phased in. Cut meat down so you have 3 vegetarian days a week, then 4 then 5 then 6. Also consider trying to become pescatarian. Think about where you might make or buy the best of plant-based foods.
- Voting. We should vote for the candidates that we judge to have the best environmental manifesto and track record. When you lobby your sitting representatives, write to them to ask what they're doing practically to support sustainability and the low-carbon future. Cast a vote in every election where you're eligible.

If there are things you can't change in the short term, look at whether you can change them in the long term instead. If you can't change them now, you can look at offsetting your atmospheric carbon emissions. These are just the start, and lots of people will think that one or all of these are anathema. But they are capable of making progress towards them and disliking them and putting up with them. The change in behaviour will soon become learned and after a couple of years might even bring new benefits. The more money you've got at your disposal, the more capacity you have to meet the above goals, which I do not approve of really, but it's the reality for the moment. If you run a business or if you're a manager, think about what your firm is doing to reduce carbon emissions. Is it enough? Is more practical? Can you spend a bit more on it? If you're an employee, can you point out your priority on the business' carbon sustainability to your manager?

Everyone has a responsibility to adopt some goals in their personal life. I am committed to the four I've set out very briefly above.

PS Doing the above is a lot more credible than complaining about people taking direct action which you disagree with. The police and the justice system are there to deal with them.
Being poor might be advantageous for once.
 

reddragon

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Less meat, and less beef in particular, but eating meat is natural for human beings.

I would not stop eating meat, but have made changes. Venison has replaced beef for me. Its cheap locally, cheaper than beef and being wild is effectively low carbon. In most forms, fresh venison is very close to beef but much healthier for you.

I also dilute meat with pulses. beans, mushrooms and more veg.

I treat meat, especially a roast joint or steak as a treat as it always used to be and still is in most countries and not as a daily staple.
 

reddragon

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800 comments later on this forum we are now talking about climate change. I would suggest that this was their objective and that they've succeeded in it.

If you dislike the protestors, fine. That's up to you. But I would say that they have noble aims and they've achieved one of them demonstrably - we wouldn't all be here discussing it if they hadn't.

What we are all obliged to do now is react. We need to set out our personal commitment to a low carbon future. We need to look at:

- Doing less driving. Ideally we should all drive only when there is no alternative. Lobby for better public transport, and pay for it personally. If you've got money, look at driving electric - especially as the second-hand electric vehicle market is slowly getting going.
- Taking fewer flights. Ideally we should never fly, but some people will need to. Avoid flights between two GB airports, and try to limit long-haul to one return journey annually. Lobby for better rights for international rail passengers. Purchase carbon offsets, especially looking for the reputable tree planting ones.
- Eating less meat. Ideally we should look to become vegetarian, and try to adopt low-carbon meat substitutes grown sustainably. That's a huge change for most people, so it should be phased in. Cut meat down so you have 3 vegetarian days a week, then 4 then 5 then 6. Also consider trying to become pescatarian. Think about where you might make or buy the best of plant-based foods.
- Voting. We should vote for the candidates that we judge to have the best environmental manifesto and track record. When you lobby your sitting representatives, write to them to ask what they're doing practically to support sustainability and the low-carbon future. Cast a vote in every election where you're eligible.

If there are things you can't change in the short term, look at whether you can change them in the long term instead. If you can't change them now, you can look at offsetting your atmospheric carbon emissions. These are just the start, and lots of people will think that one or all of these are anathema. But they are capable of making progress towards them and disliking them and putting up with them. The change in behaviour will soon become learned and after a couple of years might even bring new benefits. The more money you've got at your disposal, the more capacity you have to meet the above goals, which I do not approve of really, but it's the reality for the moment. If you run a business or if you're a manager, think about what your firm is doing to reduce carbon emissions. Is it enough? Is more practical? Can you spend a bit more on it? If you're an employee, can you point out your priority on the business' carbon sustainability to your manager?

Everyone has a responsibility to adopt some goals in their personal life. I am committed to the four I've set out very briefly above.

PS Doing the above is a lot more credible than complaining about people taking direct action which you disagree with. The police and the justice system are there to deal with them.

I have met your goals with an EV, maximised public transport use, minimal flights and none since my self imposed ban, meat use halved, voting of course! My costs have dropped, so no excuse saying you "cannot" afford it.

I have also moved my house from EPC band G to A, swapped to a zero carbon heating system and solar PV all at LESS cost than before. This took me 10 years though as each capital cost had to pay back enough before I could afford the next bit.

I know that this change is very scary for people and there is little or confusing information available. People have not done wrong in the past, they have done what they though right for their families. It is just what is right now has changed and we must change too. Everyone should do what they can, but without a drive from the top most people will find this incredibly difficult to do.

Plastic is going for me too. Milk in glass, cooking oil in cans / glass, no bottled water or plastic bags, shopping at markets with paper bags (not sure when the supermarkets will catch on) - a lot more to get rid of though!

Just try, ask for advice and no not everyone is able to change that much today on their own!
 

Lucan

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800 comments later on this forum we are now talking about climate change. I would suggest that this was their objective and that they've succeeded in it.
There are plenty of forums with discussions about climate change, addressing it directly without ploughing through 800 comments first. And such discussions have been going on for long before these ER antics, which are actually a distraction - because the issue they raise is the stupidity of those people.

In any case, global warming and talk of vegetarianism are themselves distractions from the real issue, which is over-population.
 
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