Extra carriages, 180s for FGW

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by jopsuk, 22 Nov 2011.

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  1. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    DfT press release for above.
    The detail is in the "Notes for Editors"

    seven car sets to 8 car presumably?

    That ends the speculation

    Presumably the two 150/0 three car sets?
    Where's this unit coming from?
    Waffle. Note that's £28.9 million cost to the tax payer, not First Group.
     
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  3. g4mby

    g4mby Member

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    The two carriages for the Bristol services is most likely 150209 which will most likely split to form further three car sets. I've seen references elsewhere that 150121/127 could be extended to three car.
     
  4. Blindtraveler

    Blindtraveler Established Member

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    and I bet FGW are overjoyed to have 180s back!! Wonder if they had a say in it? Good that some MK3 Buffet vehicles are being converted, are there many more of these lying around?
     
  5. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    I'm pleased the 150s have found a use rather than the occasional stored run out twice a week. I'm also pleased the 180s going back to GW is now public knowledge.

    Good news for the Great Westerns passengers.
     
  6. ess

    ess Member

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    So is this for the May 2012 timetable? Where will all these trains come from? The ability to lease some before the olympics suggests there are trains sat in sidings doing nothing. Is that right?
     
  7. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    I'm sure some on here were saying that converting the buffet cars to seating would be too expensive - nice to see they will be used after all.

    Has this been in the pipeline for a while or is it intended to soften the blow of cancelling the GWML electrification? [/cynic]

    Definitely a need for more suburban stock - overcrowding is chronic - though smarter use of what's there would be wise. Was on a service from Ealing on Sunday and people were being left at the station, so I dread to think what it's like in the peak.
     
  8. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    The 150s are ex-London Midland
    The 180s are ex-Northern and 2 sets from store
    The buffet cars are presumably GW surplus or loco hauled 3a coaches that will be converted to HST.

    As far as I'm aware the DMUs are for December which is why Northerns 180s are being withdrawn on the 2nd rather than the Friday before the timetable changes. The 150/0s and the 150/2 cars were stored a few weeks ago.
     
  9. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    2x180s have effectively been in store since they left FGW, although GC have recently taken out a short term loan on one of them.

    FGW are very likely to refurbish the 180s before putting them in to service (they issued a tender for such work) and they will need crew training on 180s before they are in passenger service.

    The remaining 150s could be put in to service from December, if they aren't it's probably a case of the government won't fund them from December.
     
  10. DavidBrown

    DavidBrown Member

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    BBC News

    The BBC article mentions extra carriage(s) for Barnstaple which disappointingly the DfT doesn't mention - presumably we will only see the new carriages then if a Paignton-Exmouth train then goes on to Barnstaple?
     
  11. sonic2009

    sonic2009 Established Member

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    So the 150s for Reading - Basingstoke will be 3car units.

    150001 and ?
     
  12. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    I think FGW most definitely had a say in getting the 180s back. Mark Hopwood mentioned wanting them (a little cryptically) on a local radio interview nearly a year ago. First Group also issued a tender for the refresh of up to 6 Class 180s back in April*. So, yes, been in the pipeline for quite a while and I don't think shuffling the deckchairs like this (with a few tarted up!) would soften the blow in the slightest, should GWML sparky stuff be cancelled. I don't think it will be [/optimist]

    *http://www.publictenders.net/tender/100424
     
    Last edited: 22 Nov 2011
  13. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    Will any sets come from HT or GC or are there 5 Northern or stored 180s?
     
  14. sonic2009

    sonic2009 Established Member

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    150121/127 were rumoured to be getting the two orphan cars from 150209? in storage the ones without the toilets!
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    They will still keep the 180s. These 180s that First will use are the ones that were in storage/used by Northern.
     
  15. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Their 180s. FGW are taking on 5 of the 180s i.e. the ones NXEC took on for Lincoln services but were never used for such work and 3 finished up on loan to Northern.
     
  16. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The same trains they already do. There are 14 180s, 3 of which are with Northern and 2 are in store the rest are with HT and GC.
     
  17. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    150002, as previously discussed in the 150 threads?
     
  18. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    ....150002;)
     
  19. Schnellzug

    Schnellzug Established Member

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    I love the way Government Press Releases always talk about the number of Carriages, since "2 Class 150 carriages" sounds as if the Government is being so much more generous than just one unit. :lol:
     
  20. Blindtraveler

    Blindtraveler Established Member

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    know what you mean. Assume the refresh wil be a farly basic retrim, carpets and maybe some plugs and wifi? certainly will be good for overcrouding and using the 150s out of Reading makes sense.
     
  21. Schnellzug

    Schnellzug Established Member

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    ..

    Why does the Government need to fund them at all? Why does the Government have to stipulate every single thing down to the exact total of 2,266 Seats and expect that everyone will love them for their generosity towards Long Suffering Commuters? The Government doesn't insist on stipulating every single Bus that a bus company acquires or transfers from one subsidiary to another, and then issue Press Releases boasting about the exact number of Seats that they'll offer.

    Besides, as anyone who sees FGW regularly will be well aware, this obsession of the Government about the exact number of Carriages and Seats is a bit academic, as they usually put anything on that's to hand; 143, 150, 150+153, 150+153+158, etc etc.
     
  22. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    So Reading > Basingstoke will be operated as a micro-fleet of 2x 3-car 150s (the oldest ones of all) requiring 100% availability? Hmmm.
     
  23. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    This is from FGW's version of the press release, assumed to be referring to the two extra individual 150 vehicles, ie 150209 split up:

    http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=5338
     
  24. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    You would imagine so. I count eighteen 2+7 FGW high density HST formations. I also count sixteen First Great Western liveried (both the older "barbie" scheme and the current dynamic lines) HST TRFB vehicles off lease. Pure speculation, but I'd imagine that it'll be fifteen of these that are to be converted. There aren't that many mark 3A buffet vehicles remaining off lease, and a lot of those that are are owned by DB.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Indirectly. The DfT release refers to the two additional 150 vehicles (57209/57212) being utilised in the Bristol area, allowing the release of two class 153s to Falmouth and Exmouth services. This makes sense when stating that this will "allow all services on the line to run as two car units", and that this "will double capacity on key services including the 07:47 Falmouth - Truro". Presumably these services are currently single 153s, and will now be doubled up.
     
    Last edited: 22 Nov 2011
  25. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Very.

    • Longer HSTs
    • Additional Sprinters
    • Getting the 180s back

    What is odd is that they don't appear to be giving anything up; normally a TOC only gets additional units at the cost of cascading something else somewhere, so that there appears to be benefits around the country.

    I've nothing against FGW, and the capacity certainly seems needed on a number of services, but to get such a big boost so late in the "life" of a franchise seems quite different to other TOCs (which only tend to get improvements in the early years).
     
  26. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    Shush! The DfT might hear you! ;)
     
  27. route:oxford

    route:oxford Established Member

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    Any chance of the "new" HST carriages being upgraded to power doors ala Chiltern as part of their refurbishment/rebuild?
     
  28. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    It should, however, mean FGW can release more units when the 319s are available for Thames Valley.
     
  29. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    It'd surely only make sense to do entire rakes at once? I would have thought, though I don't know the ins and outs of it, that there would be problems with operating the door controls from any other part of the train if there were only one power door fitted vehicle in the set.

    Plus, I would think that following GWML electrification in just five years time, only the Laira allocated HST sets (and perhaps only the long distance sets?) will be retained, and these additional carriages will be going into the Old Oak high density sets, which will surely be the first to go when electrification goes live.
     
  30. Matt Taylor

    Matt Taylor Established Member

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    Nothing for the Portsmouth-Cardiff line, they've had the same traction on that line since 1991!
     
  31. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    I know!

    Maybe things are starting to change, and the "trickle down" policy of the past (e.g. twenty seven 172s to LM giving EMT four 156s after a complicated cascade) - in future each TOC will get the resources that it needs (without worrying about being seen to "balance" things politically)?
     
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