• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Extra train for FA Cup Final

Status
Not open for further replies.

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Another oddity - at 0926 when the St Pancras train leaves Lime St, it could reach London via Warrington BQ and the WCML much earlier than via Chesterfield.
As far as I can see the Warrington-Crewe-Euston line is open until 1100.
The fans would get another hour at Wembley that way...
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
17,882
Location
Reston City Centre
Just a though, but if we assume that the EMT staff available only have "mainline" knowledge (i.e. the lines that the HST runs) and so they need a Northern driver/ guard for route knowledge on the Liverpool side of the route, what about the south western chord at Dore?

AFAIK no Northern services are scheduled to run it (even as ECS) - but its only a short section of line - would that be a problem?
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
Emt drivers have knowledge of the Dore south curve, it is often used to catch up time and Sheffield passengers get dumped on.

Emt should know the entire route, as I said on an earlier post they must sign Newton-le-willows considering all EMT services are diverted around that way that weekend.
 

Thomas6187

Member
Joined
27 May 2011
Messages
413
Location
Rochdale
Just a though, but if we assume that the EMT staff available only have "mainline" knowledge (i.e. the lines that the HST runs) and so they need a Northern driver/ guard for route knowledge on the Liverpool side of the route

EMT would just use someone from Nottingham to route Conduct, just like when 222 are used on Liverpool runs
 

TDK

Established Member
Joined
19 Apr 2008
Messages
4,155
Location
Crewe
Not Chiltern's area of concern really now they're not running to Wrexham, it's not really like the Shrewsbury situation.

The value for the franchise is to make sure that the maintenance schedules for the weekday mainline stock aren't compromised as I'm sure you're aware Chiltern runs one of the highest stock utilisations going.

This is also on top of the fact that the Wembley stock plan for use on the Chiltern route will use pretty much all the stock going spare and may even eat in to the normal weekend maintenance allowances.

However the loco hauled sets are at rest at weekends and one could be utilsed but saying that I think Chiltern will have their hands full as it is maybe
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
17,882
Location
Reston City Centre
Emt drivers have knowledge of the Dore south curve, it is often used to catch up time and Sheffield passengers get dumped on.

Emt should know the entire route, as I said on an earlier post they must sign Newton-le-willows considering all EMT services are diverted around that way that weekend.

They do run that way at times (early morning ECS, late running, Bradway blockade etc), but those are 158 duties - are any of those drivers going to be doing HSTs too?

EMT would just use someone from Nottingham to route Conduct, just like when 222 are used on Liverpool runs

In which case (unless I'm missing something) they'd need HST staff (who know the line from Sheffield to London, Northern staff (who know the line through Chat Moss) and EMT staff (who know the Liverpool - Norwich bits of the line inc the chord at Dore) just to run one service?

So three sets of staff required at overtime rates (for a full shift) just to run one train?

Just something to bear in mind for those saying "why can't the railway simply run a diverted train for Liverpool fans" - nothing is ever "simple"...
 
Joined
13 Feb 2010
Messages
7
Liverpool-Leicester worked by notts men who have hst and route knowledge, derby crew taking over at Leicester
 

Thomas6187

Member
Joined
27 May 2011
Messages
413
Location
Rochdale
Most EMT crewe who sign through to Liverpool sign the Chat Moss route, as the early morning ECS is routed via Chat Moss
 

Bellwater

Member
Joined
10 Jan 2010
Messages
522
Location
on a 158
These two posts need to be read together and we need to remember two other things:
1. When the line via Warrington Central is closed, TPE divert via Newton-le-Willows while EMT always terminate short, which suggests EMT don't have route knowledge via Newton-le-Willows.

I signed Chat Moss last I looked...not all TPE crew who sign Liverpool do.

Anyway, if its a HST/Meridian, a Nottingham Regional Driver would route conduct a Derby Mainline Driver Liverpool to Sheffield and a Nottingham or Derby Regional Guard the same for the Derby or Sheffield Train Manager.

Then its normal London Working from there.
 

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,036
Location
No longer here
See post #35, if there's a will to do it, it can be done.

Indeed. Also, people need to disabuse themselves of the idea that if a train makes a paper loss it will not run. Running this extra train is worth more than just the tickets sold to put Scouse bums on seats!
 

hairyhandedfool

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2008
Messages
8,837
Definately an HST.

Picture004.jpg


Picture005.jpg


5Z41 0550 ECS Derby Etches Park-Liverpool Lime Street
 

hairyhandedfool

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2008
Messages
8,837
Aside from the NMT, I don't know the answer to that. I know the Cotswold Rail/Hornby livery HST went up the Chat Moss towards Manchester, but I don't know if it came from Liverpool or not. I know back in BR days a HST replaced a Deltic service over the Pennines to Liverpool and back, that must have been around 1980. I can only presume there has been one since then.
 

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
7,768
Location
Herts
Cross Country used to run 2 hourly back in the day - inevitably a HST would have crept in vice 47 + LHCS.
 

SprinterMan

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2010
Messages
2,341
Location
Hertford
HST on the Hope Valley Line will be brillaint for photographers and passengers on the train alike. I wish I was on that. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top