Extra Trains for the Olympics, or not?

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Schnellzug

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hello, everybody.

It said in the Paper recently, in one of the promotional pieces for the Olympic 2012 Games that the local paper often runs, that "South West Trains will double the usual capacity!" on services to Weymouth during the Olympic 2012 Games Event. Is there any truth in this whatsoever? How could they possibly manage to do this? How could they conceivably find the stock to be able to do this? (Particularly as 2 x 444 are, I think, a no-no west of Poole). And Meanwhile, I read in a Magazine that "no charter trains will be permitted to run to Weymouth during the duration of the Olympic 2012 Games due to increased traffic". The only extra traffic I have heard about is that apparently one or two XC services a day are going to be extended from Bournemouth, as was discussed here a little while back. Is there any truth in all these other promises at all, or is it what, I believe, is known technically, as a Fib?
 
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Schnellzug

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That's what I was thinking, I don't know if it was actually SWT that promised this, or a Councillor either (putting it generously) getting the wrong end of the stick, or (dare I suggest) Fibbing.
 

swt_passenger

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The current SWT capacity, 2 tph and nearly all 5 car, was introduced in Dec 2007 (in good time for the Olympics) and is double the previous capacity, of a single tph. :D
 

dk1

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Norfolk & Suffolk tourism have been making much of their direct access into the Olympic Park via Stratford. Dont think they have been told of the possibility that Intercity services will pass through non-stop due to the slam door nature of these trains being seen as a performance risk at the Regional station :o
 

anthony263

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FGW are running an additional service between Bristol & Weymouth and strengthening the rest of their services to Weymouth.

There was talk of the additional extra service being worked by a hst
 

krisk

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I do have visions that all this panicking and worrying about capacity just will not materialise.

1. In summer you lose a lot of your business travel
2. Those whom may live here and travel for leisure will probably avoid London like the plague
3. If you can afford tickets for the Olympics then chances are you can afford to pay over priced hotel rates in London too

I'm not saying there won't be an increase in people but I do not see it being as crazy as what people imagine.
 

Welshman

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If you can afford tickets for the Olympics then chances are you can afford to pay over priced hotel rates in London too
Throught the nose, probably, but you still have to get there and back, though! :)

I wondered if the offer of advance Olympic Tickets on the NR website was to judge demand before deciding what [if any] extra trains could be run. I suppose by squeezing maintenance schedules, TOCs could get one or two extra trips out of their units [I think EC has announced earlier and later trains to Leeds and Newcastle], but agree there's not much scope for many extras.

Does anyone know, by the way, when those pre-ordered tickets will be delivered?
 

bailey65

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I didn't think the power supply was sufficient to run 2 x 444 or 450 on the bournemouth to weymouth line which is why only one unit is always run on scheduled services.
 

Drsatan

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I thought the HST idea was scrapped in lieu of potential LHCS?
I heard from someone who works at train planning at FGW that at the moment all options are on the table for strengthening Bristol - Weymouth services, including LHCS, HSTs, or even using more DMUs from the Cardiff - Taunton stopper, which would be worked by short-formed HSTs.

I think the LHCS option is more likely, since the last two would involve using too many HSTs.
 

swt_passenger

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I didn't think the power supply was sufficient to run 2 x 444 or 450 on the bournemouth to weymouth line which is why only one unit is always run on scheduled services.
It isn't - and it was already mentioned (or implied) in the first post in this thread.

As you suspect power restrictions are such that a doubled 450 is still too much - an 8.450 has the same number of motor bogies as a 10.444 after all...
 

anthony263

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I heard from someone who works at train planning at FGW that at the moment all options are on the table for strengthening Bristol - Weymouth services, including LHCS, HSTs, or even using more DMUs from the Cardiff - Taunton stopper, which would be worked by short-formed HSTs.

I think the LHCS option is more likely, since the last two would involve using too many HSTs.
Or you could use the loco hauled sets on the Cardiff - Taunton routes to release the dmu's to strengthen services between Bristol & Weymouth.

After all whats the poiint in using loco haulage to Weymouth to provide extra capacity when some of that extra capacity is taken up by railway enthusiasts?
 

Schnellzug

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Or you could use the loco hauled sets on the Cardiff - Taunton routes to release the dmu's to strengthen services between Bristol & Weymouth.

After all whats the poiint in using loco haulage to Weymouth to provide extra capacity when some of that extra capacity is taken up by railway enthusiasts?
possibly (a cynic writes) to fill up some of the extra seats that might be embarassingly empty otherwise .....

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I didn't think the power supply was sufficient to run 2 x 444 or 450 on the bournemouth to weymouth line which is why only one unit is always run on scheduled services.
That's what i've always been told, but a month or so back I did see a 2 x 450 leaving Weymouth, so they must be permitted.
 
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TEW

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I believe there are now some 8 450s booked to Weymouth because of the reduction in 444 usage.
 

D1009

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Additional capacity between Bournemouth and Weymouth during the Olympics is being provided by Cross Country.

1O02 0604 BHM WEY 1015
1M78 1830 WEY BHM 2245 SX 2248 SO

1O04 0511 MAN WEY 1113
1Z80 1135 WEY BMH 1228
1Z81 1235 BMH WEY 1323
1M74 1741 WEY MAN 2337 SX
1M74 1736 WEY MAN 2332 SO

1Z79 0851 SOU WEY 1008 SUN
1Z80 1038 WEY BMH 1128 SUN
1Z81 1135 BMH WEY 1222 SUN
1M78 1838 WEY BHM 2242 SUN

Trains to/from beyond Bournemouth are non stop, the others call at Poole and Wareham.
 

wintonian

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I must pop down and see a Voyager at Weymouth - might bring back a few memories.

Will be interesting to see what FGW's offering ends up being.

I take it nobody fancied reopening Weymouth Quey just for the fortnight then?
 

swt_passenger

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I believe there are now some 8 450s booked to Weymouth because of the reduction in 444 usage.
There are some 444 diagrams replaced by 450s while the 444s are going through Eastliegh again for yaw damper bush replacements.

Modern Railways ran an article recently explaining that the 444 fleet mileage had to be reduced to keep leasing charges down, but SWT explicitly denied this when asked about it in the subsequent webchat.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's what i've always been told, but a month or so back I did see a 2 x 450 leaving Weymouth, so they must be permitted.
The wording in the sectional appendix refers to only single units 'under normal circumstances'.

Whatever has been seen down there, SWT have said on a number of occasions that they are definitely not running any extras, and aren't strengthening any services.

Why would they say that, if it was not correct?
 
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wintonian

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From SWT

We can only run five-car trains to and from Weymouth because there is a limited power supply. We are still looking at ways of running extra trains - either electric or diesel - to Weymouth at peak times. Other operators will be running longer trains and a few extra trains to and from Weymouth.
&

For the water sport events at Eton Dorney (near Windsor) we will run extra early morning weekend services and longer trains at other times.

For the Olympic Tennis at Wimbledon we will stop some of our main line services at Wimbledon, as we do for the Wimbledon Tennis Championships.
However on the same page:

The normal service will operate to and from Weymouth during games-time. CrossCountry trains will be operating some additional services between Bournemouth and Weymouth.

Please note, that services to and from Weymouth are likely to be extremely busy and it may be necessary to institute queuing arrangements at Bournemouth and Weymouth at busy times.

Park-and-ride is the recommended option for spectators attending these Games events from outside of the Weymouth area. See london2012.com/travel for further details of travel options to Games events in Weymouth.
:?
 
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hluraven

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For the power supply, I believe you can run 2x450 but only if nothing is moving in the opposite direction drawing power simultaneously, as the combined load of 3 units is too much*

*It may be 4 units simulteaneously so the restriction is to avoid 2 2x450s in opposite directions at once, my memory isn't up to it at the moment!
 

swt_passenger

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In the March webchat they said:

Question: 6

Are there going to be any provision to put on extra/later trains down to Weymouth for the Olympics during the morning and on return at the evening?

Answer:

Restrictions on the traction power supply to the tracks west of Poole prevents us from operating any additional electric operated services.

However, in conjunction with Cross Country Trains, there will be some additional diesel services operating, and we also expect to provide some longer trains.
It's a pity they aren't a bit more consistent...
 

TEW

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There are some 444 diagrams replaced by 450s while the 444s are going through Eastliegh again for yaw damper bush replacements.

Modern Railways ran an article recently explaining that the 444 fleet mileage had to be reduced to keep leasing charges down, but SWT explicitly denied this when asked about it in the subsequent webchat.
SWT may have denied it but there has been a drop in 444 usage recently, SWT might have been a bit liberal with the truth in the webchat, that is the opinion of other people I have spoken to. There are now a couple more Off Peak trains to Weymouth that are 450s.
 

Cherry_Picker

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Chiltern are running an 01:30 (ish) Marylebone - Moor Street as far as I am aware. The off peak services will all be strengthened too, and there are whispers of more services being loco hauled.

One thing I am curious about is the Paralympics though. Apparently the tickets are selling like hot cakes and given Stoke Mandeville's unique place in Paralympic history (they were invented there) I do wonder how much increased tourism the place will get and what will happen if 30 people in wheelchairs turn up at Marylebone and attempt to board a two car 165...
 

centurian

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Norfolk & Suffolk tourism have been making much of their direct access into the Olympic Park via Stratford. Dont think they have been told of the possibility that Intercity services will pass through non-stop due to the slam door nature of these trains being seen as a performance risk at the Regional station :o
:shock:

I commute into Stratford on said Intercity services.

Are they changing the timetable - or just keeping the limited amount of Stratford-stopping services that they already have - which I can live with.
 

barrykas

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Chiltern are running an 01:30 (ish) Marylebone - Moor Street as far as I am aware. The off peak services will all be strengthened too, and there are whispers of more services being loco hauled.
The extra trains are shown in the back of the Summer timetable.

Briefly:

0040 to High Wycombe (fast to Denham, then all stations)
0057 to Aylesbury via Amersham (fast to Amersham, then all stations)
0110 to Aylesbury via High Wycombe (fast to Denham, all stations to Princes Risborough, then Aylesbury)
0130 to Birmingham Snow Hill (fast to Princes Risborough, then the usual suspects, but stopping at Dorridge rather than Solihull)
0157 to Aylesbury via Amersham (fast to Amersham, then all stations)

There are also earlier trains on Sundays:

0630 from Aylesbury Vale Parkway via Amersham (arr Marylebone 0735)
0627 from Aylesbury via High Wycombe (arr Marylebone 0747)
0726 from Bicester North (arr Marylebone 0847)
0740 from Birmingham Snow Hill (arr Marylebone 0947)

One thing I am curious about is the Paralympics though. Apparently the tickets are selling like hot cakes and given Stoke Mandeville's unique place in Paralympic history (they were invented there) I do wonder how much increased tourism the place will get and what will happen if 30 people in wheelchairs turn up at Marylebone and attempt to board a two car 165...
Short answer: They wouldn't get on. A 165 has space for two wheelchairs, three at a push...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
:shock:

I commute into Stratford on said Intercity services.

Are they changing the timetable - or just keeping the limited amount of Stratford-stopping services that they already have - which I can live with.
Looking at Greater Anglia's Olympics timetables, there will be no InterCity® calls at Stratford between 1500 and 2000 (inclusive) in the Down direction on weekdays, and reservations are recommended on trains leaving Liverpool Street between 1530 and 1930 (inclusive).

Cheers,

Barry
 

centurian

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Looking at Greater Anglia's Olympics timetables, there will be no InterCity® calls at Stratford between 1500 and 2000 (inclusive) in the Down direction on weekdays, and reservations are recommended on trains leaving Liverpool Street between 1530 and 1930 (inclusive).
Thanks, but that's normal though - none of the evening peak's stop at Stratford (except the much hated 1702, which isn't our beloved Intercity stock) - and reservations have always been recommended between those times. I go out in the evening's through Liverpool Street.

It's the morning services where I go through Stratford and I notice that the 07.40 fast service will additionally stop at Stratford - bonus :D
 

Cherry_Picker

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0130 to Birmingham Snow Hill (fast to Princes Risborough, then the usual suspects, but stopping at Dorridge rather than Solihull)
Hmm, I wonder what will happen to that unit after it terminates. Moor Street platforms and sidings will be full so it will probably have to be stabled at Snow Hill overnight or go ECS back south.

Short answer: They wouldn't get on. A 165 has space for two wheelchairs, three at a push...
Yeah, but can you imagine the drama? It would be even worse if a load of people in wheelchairs turned up unannounced at Stoke Mandeville where station staff would be utterly unable to cope.
 

Schnellzug

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SWT may have denied it but there has been a drop in 444 usage recently, SWT might have been a bit liberal with the truth in the webchat, that is the opinion of other people I have spoken to. There are now a couple more Off Peak trains to Weymouth that are 450s.
Indeed, the 1003 last Friday was one. It did couple to another one at Bournenmouth, though. Although the Poole stoppers seems to be predominantly 444s, i'd have thought 450s were just right for that.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From SWT
Park-and-ride is the recommended option for spectators attending these Games events from outside of the Weymouth area. See london2012.com/travel for further details of travel options to Games events in Weymouth.




:?
Yes, i know, in effect, "Please don't use our trains but drive instead". Can you imagine any other business that would ask people not to use them? :roll:
 
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