Extreme weather in Germany, Poland, Austria, Czechia - Travel Disruptions Expected - and cancelled nightjet question

[sambolino]

Extreme weather incoming is going to have a strong effect on rail services in and around austria.

Europe: Extreme weather warnings in Germany, Poland, Austria – DW – 09/13/2024

Heavy rainfall particularly in the Czech Republic is expected to have knock-on effects in neighboring Poland, Germany, Austria and Slovakia. Meanwhile, the first heavy snow of the year is expected in the Bavarian Alps.

www.dw.com

Heavy rainfall particularly in the Czech Republic is expected to have knock-on effects in neighboring Poland, Germany, Austria and Slovakia. Meanwhile, the first heavy snow of the year is expected in the Bavarian Alps.

ÖBB website:

Due to the current weather conditions in Austria, deviations and delays in train services are to be expected from Friday, September 13, 2024 to Sunday, September 15, 2024 inclusive. We therefore ask you to postpone non-urgent trips to another time. We will continuously update details of which ÖBB train connections are affected on oebb.at & SCOTTY as soon as we have information.


Personally my Nightjet from Florence to Munich has been cancelled at short notice, leaving me in a bit of a bind as I was expecting to catch a connecting overnight train north from there tomorrow.

In the end we decided to fly to the UK instead and cancel the rest of the trip. But it's opened a few questions.

I get that ÖBB are expected to get me to my destination on the next available service, but does this only apply to ÖBB services or would they put me on a frecciarossa/DB eurocity train or similar to get me there?


What would you have done?

Would there have been any sense in waiting for them given that it sounds like there may be disrupted service for multiple days? Would they provide me accomodation until the journey can be done, even if it takes a while?
Does snow and rain count as force majeure?

 

[30907]

In theory they should reimburse an overnight hotel or re-route you, but in practice it seems difficult to get European operators to do this if another operator is involved, and they tend simply to refund you. It's complicated by the fashion for "global price" tickets on sleepers.

In your case, knowing that the Tauern route is blocked and will remain so over the weekend, I would have aimed to find a hotel and catch a day train to Innsbruck or Munich to pick up the next sleeper there, allowing some leeway for delays.

Assuming I had an Interrail, I would probably submit the additional reservation fees along with the hotel bill to OeBB - you never know....

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Given the major scale of the expected incident and the clear warnings being given by OEBB, it seems unlikely to me that OEBB will be refunding much eg. hotel bills unless you become unexpectedly stranded. The expectation is that passengers would stay put and wait for the severe weather to clear the region. There may also be significant flooding locally as well.

 

[MattSGB]

Some time ago (perhaps 10 years ago) I caught an overnight sleeper through the Elbe (Labem) valley towards Prague during severe flooding. All trains were being cancelled and I really thought that we would end up stranded. However, against the odds, the overnight train was the only train that actually did run. The villages of Saxony that we passed through were eerily deserted and the flood waters were so high that the train cautiously went at a crawl. The train actually drove right through a significant section of shallow flooding near the Czech border.
They used to do everything to ensure that the sleeper trains ran where possible. In recent years I wouldn't be surprised to see services cancelled just because of the weather forecast, whether or not the line is blocked.
The Czech media is going nuts at the moment, and it looks like there will be severe flooding, but it probably will be similar to the floods that have always happened every few years in the vicinity of great European rivers. You probably made the right call taking a flight, but I have a feeling that the current situation is being overblown. I'll be in Czech Republic myself in a week's time and will find out what actually happened.

 

[rvdborgt]

Given the major scale of the expected incident and the clear warnings being given by OEBB, it seems unlikely to me that OEBB will be refunding much eg. hotel bills unless you become unexpectedly stranded. The expectation is that passengers would stay put and wait for the severe weather to clear the region. There may also be significant flooding locally as well.

The law doesn't change just because this is expected (a few days in advance) and large-scale. In fact it's in place for exactly these kinds of things happening. Assistance is mandatory, including overnight accommodation (limited to 3 night in case of force majeure) and alternative transport to your destination. You can book something yourself (no flights though) if 100 minutes after departure time the operator hasn't come up with an alternative.
ÖBB often put people on DB services when something like this happens. And in Italy, they won't have much choice either than to involve Trenitalia.

 

[The exile]

Given the major scale of the expected incident and the clear warnings being given by OEBB, it seems unlikely to me that OEBB will be refunding much eg. hotel bills unless you become unexpectedly stranded. The expectation is that passengers would stay put and wait for the severe weather to clear the region. There may also be significant flooding locally as well.

Staying put and waiting is all very well (though a nuisance) if you are at home. If you are already away, "staying put" is going to force you to incur additional hotel bills etc. - ultimately, much of the disruption that is assigned to "severe weather" is in fact the failure (by someone) to take preventive measures (all fallen trees were growing on someone's land and therefore someone's responsibility to ensure they don't fall on the line; much flooding is actually down to inadequately maintained drains etc) . Clearly there are many exceptions , but not as many as the authorities would have us believe.

 

[Austriantrain]

Staying put and waiting is all very well (though a nuisance) if you are at home. If you are already away, "staying put" is going to force you to incur additional hotel bills etc. - ultimately, much of the disruption that is assigned to "severe weather" is in fact the failure (by someone) to take preventive measures (all fallen trees were growing on someone's land and therefore someone's responsibility to ensure they don't fall on the line; much flooding is actually down to inadequately maintained drains etc) . Clearly there are many exceptions , but not as many as the authorities would have us believe.

At least in Austria, the current problem with the trees is that they still carry plenty of leaves and thus the snow breaks them. Hence the part-closure on the Tauernbahn.

The regular pruning back would be plenty enough in winter when the trees are leafless.

 

[The exile]

At least in Austria, the current problem with the trees is that they still carry plenty of leaves and thus the snow breaks them. Hence the part-closure on the Tauernbahn.

The regular pruning back would be plenty enough in winter when the trees are leafless.

So something that will cause disruption that could be prevented by a different maintenance regime but isn’t because of someone’s decision.

 

[Austriantrain]

So something that will cause disruption that could be prevented by a different maintenance regime but isn’t because of someone’s decision.

Since this kind of event is very new, there was not much reason to cut back more then necessary. Cutting down trees is not nothing either.

But yes, I suspect that the system will change.

 

[The exile]

Since this kind of event is very new, there was not much reason to cut back more then necessary. Cutting down trees is not nothing either.

But yes, I suspect that the system will change.

There are plenty of other types of weather-based delays where the main reason is the failure to manage line side vegetation adequately. Quite simply, nothing should be growing where its falling would affect traffic at normal line speed.

 

[Austriantrain]

There are plenty of other types of weather-based delays where the main reason is the failure to manage line side vegetation adequately. Quite simply, nothing should be growing where its falling would affect traffic at normal line speed.

Not how real life works.

Austria is really good at cutting down vegetation along railways.However, heavy snow along railways in September has never been a very realistic scenario.

 

[The exile]

Not how real life works.

Austria is really good at cutting down vegetation along railways.However, heavy snow along railways in September has never been a very realistic scenario.

Of course it's not how real life works - however. it's the decision of the railway not to "work" it like that - so the railway should not be able to shrug off responsibility by saying "stay at home" to people who are already not at home.

 

[Austriantrain]

Of course it's not how real life works - however. it's the decision of the railway not to "work" it like that - so the railway should not be able to shrug off responsibility by saying "stay at home" to people who are already not at home.

Oh please, get real. There is currently a general „do not travel“ advice all over Eastern Austria, and for very good reason.

 

[nwales58]

It's not just the railway (currently no trains between Vienna and Linz even). Nor just alarmist news items.

ÖAMTC, equivalent to RAC/AA, is advising people not to drive unless absolutely unavoidable in the affected areas.

ÖAMTC-Verkehrsservice: Alle Meldungen in Listendarstellung | ÖAMTC

Aktuelle Verkehrslage, Verkehrsmeldungen und Baustellen auf Österreichs Straßen auf einen Blick.

www.oeamtc.at

A1 currently blocked east of St Pölten, A2 (Vienna-Graz-Klagenfurt) several closures due to trees.

 

[bahnause]

Of course it's not how real life works - however. it's the decision of the railway not to "work" it like that - so the railway should not be able to shrug off responsibility by saying "stay at home" to people who are already not at home.

A 10 second google search would have saved you from having to write this factually incorrect post.

 

[30907]

Incidentally, trees in Alpine areas also serve as avalanche protection, so if you cut too many down you get avalanches blocking the track instead. Not to mention other environmental losses.

 

[43096]

Of course it's not how real life works - however. it's the decision of the railway not to "work" it like that - so the railway should not be able to shrug off responsibility by saying "stay at home" to people who are already not at home.

Have you actually seen coverage of the current storm across much of central and eastern Europe?

 

[nwales58]

Back on the original question:

Personally my Nightjet from Florence to Munich has been cancelled at short notice, leaving me in a bit of a bind as I was expecting to catch a connecting overnight train north from there tomorrow.

If, hypothetically, using Interrail so you turned up at Brussels or Paris a day or three later than planned:

1) Are Eurostar passholder bookings now changeable (as normal fare ones now are)? If so does Eurostar do the change or do you go back to b-europe or whoever sold you it?

2) What if it takes an extra day so you run out of pass days at the end of your trip?

This is a question of what they do in practice (and not the usual mere 2h late thanks to Germany) rather than passenger rights plus your insurance.

 

[doc7austin]

Personally my Nightjet from Florence to Munich has been cancelled at short notice, leaving me in a bit of a bind as I was expecting to catch a connecting overnight train north from there tomorrow.

In the end we decided to fly to the UK instead and cancel the rest of the trip. But it's opened a few questions.

I get that ÖBB are expected to get me to my destination on the next available service, but does this only apply to ÖBB services or would they put me on a frecciarossa/DB eurocity train or similar to get me there?

The operator of that Nightjet train in Italy is Trenitalia. The carrier code of Trenitalia (0093) should be listed on your ticket.
And Trenitalia normally accepts Nightjet tickets on its Frecciarossa trains (in Second Class only), if that Nightjet train was cancelled.
Same is true for the ÖBB/DB trains (e.g. Bologna-Munich).

 

[Austriantrain]

It's not just the railway (currently no trains between Vienna and Linz even). Nor just alarmist news items.

ÖAMTC, equivalent to RAC/AA, is advising people not to drive unless absolutely unavoidable in the affected areas.

ÖAMTC-Verkehrsservice: Alle Meldungen in Listendarstellung | ÖAMTC

Aktuelle Verkehrslage, Verkehrsmeldungen und Baustellen auf Österreichs Straßen auf einen Blick.

www.oeamtc.at

A1 currently blocked east of St Pölten, A2 (Vienna-Graz-Klagenfurt) several closures due to trees.

Several Vienna underground lines closed as well.

It might well take days for things to be normal again.

 

[rg177]

There's now a rolling BBC page with coverage of this event: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cdrjjl3mmy8t

I think we can draw a line under the "should companies tell us not to travel" debate, too. It's quite clear that this is a significant weather event which has caused several deaths to date.

 

[rvdborgt]

If, hypothetically, using Interrail so you turned up at Brussels or Paris a day or three later than planned:

1) Are Eurostar passholder bookings now changeable (as normal fare ones now are)? If so does Eurostar do the change or do you go back to b-europe or whoever sold you it?

Eurostar pass holder reservations to/from London can be changed for a fee.
However, if you've missed your booked Eurostar because of cancelations and/or delays, then that's irrelevant. Just turn up at the check-in and they should rebook you on the first train with free seats, free of charge.

2) What if it takes an extra day so you run out of pass days at the end of your trip?

The railways are obliged to let you travel to your destination without extra costs when that's necessary because of cancellations or delays. Additionally, if you have a mobile pass, you can request extra travel days. Interrail usually organise this within hours.

 

[nwales58]

Factual update Sunday 2200:
ÖBB website 'please do not make non-urgent journeys' now extended up to and including Thursday 19/09.
CD show Hranice.n.M - Bohumin closed, i.e. all services through Ostrava to Poland and Zilina, until further notice.

 

[Austriantrain]

Factual update Sunday 2200:
ÖBB website 'please do not make non-urgent journeys' now extended up to and including Thursday 19/09.
CD show Hranice.n.M - Bohumin closed, i.e. all services through Ostrava to Poland and Zilina, until further notice.

Austrian Westbahn (Vienna - St Valentin), Südbahn (Vienna - Mürzzuschlag) and Ostbahn closed until at least Tuesday night.

More rain expected today (will be better from tomorrow) so we probably won’t know until tomorrow how long reopening will really take.

 

[duesselmartin]

According to the broadcaster ORF, the water in St. Pölten station is 1.5 metres deep. Damage is expected to be severe and it will be more than a few days until the Westbahn route is back to normal.

 

[nwales58]

and as the closure is as far as St Valentin, from what has happened around St Pölten my guess is that all the valleys running from the mountains north into the Danube will have very high flow rates for some time. These are the typically picturesque valleys with the road and a minor railway wiggling along close to the river. So many of those could be out of action for weeks or longer while the main routes are sorted out.

THe Odra/Oder past Ostrava looks bad too.

 

[duesselmartin]

apparantly snow issues on the Tauern route have been resolved and it open again.

 

[Beebman]

According to the broadcaster ORF, the water in St. Pölten station is 1.5 metres deep. Damage is expected to be severe and it will be more than a few days until the Westbahn route is back to normal.

Video showing flooding nearby at St. Pölten Kaiserwald station on the 760mm gauge Mariazellerbahn:

 

[AntoniC]

I arrived at Krakow Glowny yesterday at 11.04 and there was a Regio Night Jet service (I don't know where to) delayed 7hrs and 50 minutes.

 

[30907]

I arrived at Krakow Glowny yesterday at 11.04 and there was a Regiojet service (I don't know where to) delayed 7hrs and 50 minutes.

Overnight Prague-Przemsyl probably. Not surprising, given the situation in Eastern Czechia and into Poland.