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Extreme weather in Germany, Poland, Austria, Czechia - Travel Disruptions Expected - and cancelled nightjet question
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TravellingPhil
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Of course. That makes sense! Thank you.
I guess because I rarely get much luck with Nightjet I don’t get to find out!
trainresident
Member
I've received a variety of responses from OBB over the past couple of days, ranging from they don't know, to it's cancelled but it's still going part way and there's no available train service. None of their info matches up with what Czech or PKP says, which is no more booking of trains going into Poland until the 30th.
If it's going part way wouldn't they offer for you to cancel it, or would they expect you to take your ticket and then find your way and then fight them for compensation?
I've dealt with cancellations with trenitalia where they never notified us of the cancellation, but I knew about it over a month ahead of time because it was caused by a rockslide cancelling all trains in the area for a substantial amount of time and luckily I caught that news while researching the trip. I had to file a complaint and finally only got results when I luckily found the contact info for the manager in charge of that line. The case was escalated and refunded in less than a week after that.
I've dealt with the germans terminating a train enroute. It just stopped at a station and they said get off and all pretended to speak no english or understand my limited german. My complaint process with then degraded down to me having to send paperwork by international post. Surprisingly when they finally acknowledged my complaint they gave me a full refund vs just the penalty they were responsible for with no explanation or reply.
End of the day I have nothing official and our OBB ticket from Salzburg to Krakow on the NT still shows as normal when I log in to my account.
If it's going part way wouldn't they offer for you to cancel it, or would they expect you to take your ticket and then find your way and then fight them for compensation?
I've dealt with cancellations with trenitalia where they never notified us of the cancellation, but I knew about it over a month ahead of time because it was caused by a rockslide cancelling all trains in the area for a substantial amount of time and luckily I caught that news while researching the trip. I had to file a complaint and finally only got results when I luckily found the contact info for the manager in charge of that line. The case was escalated and refunded in less than a week after that.
I've dealt with the germans terminating a train enroute. It just stopped at a station and they said get off and all pretended to speak no english or understand my limited german. My complaint process with then degraded down to me having to send paperwork by international post. Surprisingly when they finally acknowledged my complaint they gave me a full refund vs just the penalty they were responsible for with no explanation or reply.
End of the day I have nothing official and our OBB ticket from Salzburg to Krakow on the NT still shows as normal when I log in to my account.
Austriantrain
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Most people in Austria agree that communications by ÖBB during and in the aftermath of the floods are a disaster. Everything is very short notice (understandable up to a point), and they cannot keep up with data input, leading to all those contradictory automated mails.
trainresident
Member
I agree with you. It's understandable that there are challenges, but it's not understandable why there are no solutions offered. In my case, why I cannot get a refund when they cannot guarantee getting us from point A to point B less than 1 week out. Why they can't even tell me when I will know if the train is running or not? I finally received an answer to my question of when they will let me know and the answer was there are no standards. It could be days before it could be hours.
For others with already cancelled tickets, it's not acceptable that they force their customers to claim a refund vs them doing the work to change the ticket or automatically do reverse paybacks. At the very basic level this is such a waste of resources which is perhaps explained by the companies getting some free money from people who don't have the energy, knowledge or ability to claim.
Just like nearly everything else, there is no consideration given to the customer and while it's the norm, it's still disappointing and unnecessary.
An automatic refund is legally not allowed. They must offer the customer a choice what they want to do and only one of the options is not travelling and getting a refund. Other options are travel with the next available connection, or travel on a later date of your choice. Only the first option means you withdraw from the contract; the latter 2 options mean that the contract remains in place. This also means that the operator is not allowed to withdraw from the contract just because he can't run the train you originally booked.
They could however make it a lot easier to choose one of the options.
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nwales58
Member
shop.oebbtickets.at gives 403 this morning so no- one can see what is running today, let alone book a seat
It loads normally for me.
There was planned maintenance yesterday evening. Does it help to clear the browser cache and delete cookies for oebbtickets.at? Does it help to use another browser or an incognito/anonymous browser window?
DanielB
Member
Refreshing the page helped to clear the 403 error for me.
nwales58
Member
Did you try all the things I mentioned? If so, then I have no explanation.
nwales58
Member
Yes, thanks, also on a different device both iOS though. Will try later
87015
Established Member
blocked to UK IP addresses as another brexit benefit i believe.
TravellingPhil
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Still the updating on the day cancellations continue on the Brussels route. I don’t know why they can’t just cancel all of the future trains now until the 10th October. Doing it on a daily basis doesn’t give people many options. And as already discussed, the contradicting emails don’t help at all.
trainresident
Member
Do you know how OBB interprets customers rights? I say interpret, because in Canada it doesn't really matter what the government says. The companies do as they please and force you to take them to court in most cases to enforce rules with regards to refunds. If they only offer partial service on our ticket can we just not use the ticket and file a claim for full refund after the train runs? Currently it is hard for me to understand, but it looks like the EN406 only runs part way from Salzburg to Krakow and then you're on your own because they say due to infrastructure there is no bus service available. For the day we travel on the 1st, OBB now has no information listed which I can see that specifically outlilnes the service level planned only this message:
"Update 15 (25.09.2024 08:30) repair work after the flood
München Hbf Gl.5-10 - Warszawa Wschodnia
Due to repair work after the floods, train and rail replacement services are currently only possible to a limited extent between Wien Hbf and Salzburg Hbf.
RJX trains are canceled between Vienna Central Station and Salzburg Central Station.
RJ trains run every hour Vienna - Salzburg - Vienna and are diverted via Rekawinkel. The stop at Tullnerfeld station is canceled.
A reciprocal ticket recognition between ÖBB and WESTbahn GmbH is in place. Reciprocal ticket recognition only applies on the route between Vienna and Salzburg.
RJ trains run every hour Vienna - Airport - Vienna
REX trains run every hour between Wien Westbahnhof and St. Pölten Hbf.
Rail replacement service for line S 50 between Wien Hütteldorf and Eichgraben-Altlengbach.
Trains on the S80 line are cancelled between Vienna Meidling and Vienna Hütteldorf.
ÖBB tickets are recognized by Wiener Linien on the Vienna Meidling - Vienna Hütteldorf and Vienna Westbahnhof - Vienna Hütteldorf sections.
Cancellation of ICE trains between Vienna Central Station and Passau Central Station.
We ask travellers to inform themselves about their planned connections before departure in the ÖBB timetable information Scotty, the ÖBB app or at the ÖBB customer service at 05-1717."
The Polish site still says no service past Czechowice Dziedzice in their country until the 30th of September and the Czech site shows the train running with the normal delay due to scheduled construction after the 30th.
I've contacted OBB multiple times, but they are no help. They cannot clearly state anything and offer no help in refunding.
The most important thing is the expected delay at your destination. If that is at least 1 hour, then you automatically have a number of rights, such as the ones I listed above. ÖBB are generally quite good at honouring those: they will refund your tickets (they have an online form), reimburse accommodation you needed because you were stranded etc. In addition, you don't immediately have to go court if you don't agree. There are national enforcement bodies, arbitration boards, etc. where you can submit a simple complaint (after having received a reply from the operator) and with little to no costs. In Austria, I'd go to the Agency for Passenger Rights.
The only frustrating thing is indeed that nobody seems to be able to make any predictions about when trains to Poland will be running again.
FYI the OeBB site https://www.oebb.at/en/neuigkeiten/unwetterwarnung
now states:
It would appear that the Prague and Budapest portions are still running - they are non-Oebb.
TravellingPhil
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Vienna to Paris isn’t running anyway due to engineering works. I’m assuming they mean the Brussels train as I think the Paris portion would be attached to it anyway?
trainresident
Member
Thank you very much for helping so much from your lovely town we were lucky enough to visit by accident a couple of years ago. It was very beautiful and we enjoyed the people, walking around the whole area.
I see someone else posted what I just saw that OBB says our train is canceled now on that website, but hasn't notified me. So I guess I will begin the refund process and cross Krakow off of our trip.
I'm hoping we can still get from Salzburg to Prague and it looks like we can, but who knows if the internet information is accurate.
What you explain sounds similar to what I had to do when our German train was abruptly stopped and we were delayed.
Thank you again, I really appreciate people who take the time to help out!
Thank you for posting this. I'm hoping our night train is actually running from Prague to Kosice on the 6th. It shows it is.
My biggest lesson I've learned here is to avoid Oebb in the future at all costs. I just hope they will have some service from Salzburg/Linz area to Prague on the 1st or 2nd. At least I have time to re-plan and try to enjoy the trip we will hopefully be able to do. I already planned a day trip in Linz so we have more options for getting to Prague on October 3rd. Thank you so much for your help!
43096
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There are trains from Linz direct to Praha via České Budějovice that avoid the Linz - St. Pölten - Wien route completely. I’d suggest you might want to book/reserve a seat on one of those services if that’s a good way of getting to where you need to be.
duesselmartin
Established Member
ÖBB does a decent job in my experience, although I have not travelled NJ and even here most disruption is B s fault.
Take what happened in the last two weeks as exceptional.
I am currently in Tyrol. Trains are clean and punctual. Stations clean.
The week Tyrol ticket excellent value for money.
Take what happened in the last two weeks as exceptional.
I am currently in Tyrol. Trains are clean and punctual. Stations clean.
The week Tyrol ticket excellent value for money.
Austriantrain
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And pls don’t forget that by far the most important rail line in Austria is currently reduced from 4 tracks to 1 (and a slow one) with several severe speed restrictions in addition.
ÖBB currently have to replan the entire timetable for 10 October. They should probably not display any service on the Weststrecke after that date (just a general disclaimer), but apparently can’t or won’t.
As a rule of thumb: everything that runs now will run until 9 October, but not one train more than that.
From 10 October, there will be a wholly different timetable in operation.
Reopening of the HSL will probably not happen before April 2025.
ÖBB currently have to replan the entire timetable for 10 October. They should probably not display any service on the Weststrecke after that date (just a general disclaimer), but apparently can’t or won’t.
As a rule of thumb: everything that runs now will run until 9 October, but not one train more than that.
From 10 October, there will be a wholly different timetable in operation.
Reopening of the HSL will probably not happen before April 2025.
TravellingPhil
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I understand all of that and OBB have been excellent with general updates.
But if they know that what can’t run now won’t run until at least the 10th October, why don’t they just cancel those trains outright for the next two weeks? I’ve had two emails so far, one saying my Nightjet from Brussels is cancelled, the next one saying it’s running again. Both are automatically generated emails.
Now I know where to find information and people like yourself have been very helpful and informative on here. So I knew that even though I had received an email to say it was running, that I would have to make a plan B anyway. But it shouldn’t be like that. What will probably happen is that it’ll be confirmed on the day that it is actually cancelled. I’m lucky but it’s going to leave many people stuck. Why not just remove it until the 10th October now?
Like I said, given the exceptional circumstances, the general information on the OBB site and their Facebook page is excellent. The automatic emails sent out to people who have a booking works against their hard work causing unnecessary stress.
nwales58
Member
Not avoid ÖBB so much as avoid night trains if you want a predictable journey.
deleted para: not weather/related
And if WCML Rugby-MK had collapsed down to 2 tracks and 1 in places, how long would NR take to recover?
deleted para: not weather/related
And if WCML Rugby-MK had collapsed down to 2 tracks and 1 in places, how long would NR take to recover?
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trainresident
Member
I agree with you nearly 100%. It's hard to go with the flow when they put up a dam.
Thank you for those tips! That's exactly what I'm going to try figure out how to do as it looked like that was possible when researching the routes, but I didn't know for sure until you confirmed that. That's why we're going to take an entire day to to Linz, spend the night and then try to book one of those trains you talk about after I figure out whcih they are.
43096
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It appears - but definitely check - that there are engineering works during the middle of the day on that route on 3 October, but early morning and later afternoon trains look to be running (e.g. EC334 1554 from Linz appear to be running).
It's an enjoyable run on that route, if not that fast, and the EC trains normally have a ČD restaurant car, which is recommended.
trainresident
Member
Unbelievable, the luck continues to roll in. I checked and booked it and a hotel earlier and it was clear sailing with no disruptions, now it has bus service. What an annoying trip this is turning out to be. People say these things are rare, exceptional etc, but the level of service interruptions is so high that I have started renting cars when I travel to avoid this crap. This will definitely be our last trip with train travel. It's too bad because I love trains and always wanted to retire someplace where I didn't need a car, but even Japans trains aren't reliable enough to do that anymore.
The ticket says:
- Can only be used on a particular train
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Obligatory train EC 332 in the segment Linz Hbf – Praha hl.n. and other obligatory foreign trains per the searched connection
I don't know if that means we can take the earlier EC 330 at 0652. I've emailed them asking and not sure how we get a seat even if they do that. Not sure was "other obligatory forgein trains per the searched connection" means.
Hopefully the delay isn't too bad. Thanks for that heads up.
So CD responded that I have to pay to return the ticket. The level of customer service is just garbage these days. I paid for a train ticket, not a bus ticket. I thank all of the nice people on this forum who have been helping me better understand the processes and possibilities, but when it comes down to the facts, none of these companies give a **** about anyone anymore.
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Please mention travel date and the entire journey you booked on this ticket, so people can advise.
In general, if you'd show up at the original departure time and would then have a delay of at least 1 hour at your destination, then you're not obliged anymore to stick to the booked train, or you can get a full refund and not travel.
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Unfortunately, most train operators do not regard replacement buses as a reason for not selling tickets, or allowing rebooking, especially when the delay is minimal or nil as in this case.
(CD buses are always IME very well organised, but not necessarily low-floor. If you have difficulty using buses I would contact CD again.)
Incidentally I am surprised the information about the bus wasn't shown when you booked yesterday, though in general mainland European railways don't always flag these up well in advance, and CD are particularly bad at this.