F1 2012

[Johnuk123]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/mclaren-set-pit-stop-world-record-130042670.html

Don't hang about then.

 

[GB]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/mclaren-set-pit-stop-world-record-130042670.html

Don't hang about then.

All the pit stops are quite amazing when you think about. The car is jacked up, 4 tyres taken off and 4 new ones put back on, the car then lowered and released all in less time it takes an average person to take a breath.

All the teams deserve credit for that!

 

[LE Greys]

Doesn't it remind you of a certain other team that has red cars and wins alot? Whenever something didn't go right for Ferrari they would march down to the stewards and complain. If that didn't work they would start launching appeals and court cases.

Quite often, thanks to the Ferrari International Assistance it would work.

That's par for the course, I remember Benetton, Williams, McLaren and pretty much anybody else doing the same thing.

The F1 will also be going to Paul Ricard next year, with the return of the French GP. I'm looking forward to it. Paul Ricard has been known to hold fantastic races in various formula.

Its nice to see a 'new' circuit on the calender* that wasn't designed by Herman Tilke. It seems all new races have circuits designed by him. Circuits that are carbon copies of each other and offer boring races with no over taking.

F1 is always looking for ways to make better races and improve overtaking. Well step one would be to stop using his circuits. His older ones like Bahrain, China and Turkey are good. Its the newer ones like Singapore, Valencia etc that I don't like.

*Of course Paul Ricard isn't new as such. Its an old circuit and has hosted F1 before. But its new to the calender next year. So you get what I mean.

That's excellent news, I'll be delighted to see the oldest Grand Prix on the calendar back, especially since it's going to be near Marseille rather than at an obscure circuit in the back of beyond.

A lot of the problems with Tilke circuits come when he tries things that are too complicated. The chicane before a hairpin at Abu Dhabi hardly ever sees overtaking, because it's too easy to do a repass on the exit. Running directly into the harpin, like the last corner at Sepang, works a lot better. The first corner at the A1 Ring (one of Tilke's first, although it was a modification of an old track) used to see a lot of overtaking as well. What would help Bahrain would be to cut out the zig-zag and make something a bit more like that. I rather miss the A1 Ring, actually. Hopefully that can come back one day as well.

 

[Heinz57]

A1 was indeed a brilliant track. And it would be indeed great to see it back. I unfortinatly can't see that happening now though. Since F1 was last there they've dramaticaly altered the track for some other racing series. And ruled out F1 returning.

I was talking to a friend of mine today, about F1. We both say that if they are going to have this DRS they should beable to use it anywhere on the track, and its down to the drivers common sence where they use it. Obviously to make it fair they could restrict it to being used only once a lap. But it might make things a little more exciting.

I've had images of them using it to on the aproach to the grand hotel Hairpin. Or coming through the tunnel, rear wing wide open. Now that would make some exciting racing!

 

[David]

DRS still needs tweeking a bit, but generally speaking, it's doing the job it's designed for. IE make overtaking a bit easier and therefore more exciting for people to watch the sport.

My suggestion for altering DRS is this....

Instead of being able to use it towards the end of the straight, how about at the beginning. It will still encourage drivers to go for the overtake, but will stop them breezing past other cars like they are standing still. For example, coming off the hairpin onto the first long straight at Abu Dhabi. place the DRS zone right after the hairpin, and have it end about 350 meters in. That's enough time for the second car to get into the slipstream, but the driver still has to attempt the overtake and make it stick.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I was talking to a friend of mine today, about F1. We both say that if they are going to have this DRS they should beable to use it anywhere on the track, and its down to the drivers common sence where they use it. Obviously to make it fair they could restrict it to being used only once a lap. But it might make things a little more exciting....

A little bit like KERS then? That might work.

....I've had images of them using it to on the aproach to the grand hotel Hairpin. Or coming through the tunnel, rear wing wide open. Now that would make some exciting racing!

The drivers expressed concern about using DRS through the tunnel (which is on a curve remember!) and that is why the FIA banned it's use there in all Practice sessions (including Qualifying).

 

[Heinz57]

The drivers expressed concern about using DRS through the tunnel (which is on a curve remember!) and that is why the FIA banned it's use there in all Practice sessions (including Qualifying).

Monoco could have to be the exception where DRS can only be used in the pre-designated zones.

However, it would certainly work well on other circuits. Same as you say it would be a little like KERS. What about not having KERS and just having the DRS and using it in this particular fassion?

The other suggested idea by David, which I think I like even better than my own to using the DRS only at the begining of the main straight could work well. It still increase overtaking but put the manouvers down to the drivers skill.

 

[Bungle73]

What would be the point of having drivers use DRS all the time? That would neutarlise it for everyone and negate the effect of having it.

 

[Darandio]

Monoco could have to be the exception where DRS can only be used in the pre-designated zones.

Just Monaco as the exception?

If that was the case, the reason would be because of the slow nature of the circuit layout but also the potential for carnage within the tight walls.

So if you make Monaco the exception for them reasons, you then have to take out several others as well. Albert Park, Montreal, Valencia, Hungaroring, Marina Bay and Yas Marina. All of those tracks are equally dangerous as Monaco, for similar reasons.

 

[LE Greys]

What would be the point of having drivers use DRS all the time? That would neutarlise it for everyone and negate the effect of having it.

Exactly! I'd take the opposite approach and have no DRS and more KERS.

Hungary wasn't the most interesting race, but then it never is (apart from the odd one when it was first introduced). Still, depending on what happens over the next couple of races, Alonso is comfortably ahead now, but if someone else wins at Spa and Monza (hopefully Hamilton) we will be in for a decent title fight at the end of the year.

 

[andrew bell]

DRS still needs tweeking a bit, but generally speaking, it's doing the job it's designed for. IE make overtaking a bit easier and therefore more exciting for people to watch the sport.

My suggestion for altering DRS is this....

Instead of being able to use it towards the end of the straight, how about at the beginning. It will still encourage drivers to go for the overtake, but will stop them breezing past other cars like they are standing still. For example, coming off the hairpin onto the first long straight at Abu Dhabi. place the DRS zone right after the hairpin, and have it end about 350 meters in. That's enough time for the second car to get into the slipstream, but the driver still has to attempt the overtake and make it stick.

Only problem with the bolded section, DRS is deactivated by using the brakes so using it for the first 350-400m of a straight which is 1km+ long will not work unless they can make the button turn on and off the DRS

 

[David]

Only problem with the bolded section, DRS is deactivated by using the brakes so using it for the first 350-400m of a straight which is 1km+ long will not work unless they can make the button turn on and off the DRS

DRS is disabled through the tunnel at Monaco. A driver can open it up when coming off the previous corner, but DRS will close automatically when entering the tunnel, so it is possible. Anyway .....

For those who have not watched todays GP yet, stop reading now, as there is a fair few spoilers coming up .....






























Ok, I have warned you ....

Imperious drive from Jenson to take the win.

Romain Grosjean has been given a 1 race ban for causing the first corner pile up. While the ban is justified, I think he has perhaps been treated a touch harshly there, considering that is his first incident that he has caused, where as someone like Maldonado, who has deliberately crashed into others only has had a grid penalty in the past.

Speaking of Maldonado, he has been given not 1, but 2 grid penalties for Monza. A 5 place penalty for the jump start, and a 5 place penalty for causing a collision, this time with Timo Glock.

 

[craigwilson]

Belgian grand prix crash: Grosjean banned for one race

Romain Grosjean has been given a one-race ban for causing the first-corner crash at the Belgian Grand Prix. The 26-year-old Frenchman, who has been involved in seven first-lap crashes in 12 races this season, was also fined 50,000 euros (£40,000). The Lotus driver moved rapidly across McLaren's Lewis Hamilton at the start of the Spa race, causing a collision.
His out of control Lotus then hit Fernando Alonso's Ferrari, narrowly missing the Spaniard's head. A statement from governing body the FIA said: "The stewards regard this incident as an extremely serious breach of the regulations, which had the potential to cause injury to others. "It eliminated leading championship contenders from the race. "The stewards note [that] the team conceded the action was an extremely serious mistake and an error of judgement. Neither the team nor the driver made any submission in mitigation of penalty."

Alonso, the world championship leader, said he was "lucky" not to be injured in the pile-up. "You can have an injury in your hand or even in your head because everything was so close," said Alonso, who revealed the accident had left him with back pain. "I think we broke everything on top of the car, so it was lucky in that aspect.

As well as Grosjean, the crash also took out Hamilton and Sauber's Sergio Perez. The Mexican's team-mate, Kamui Kobayashi, started from second on the grid but had his dreams dashed when his car was also caught up in the crash.

Double world champion Alonso refused to criticise Hamilton, who was his team-mate at Renault (which is now Lotus) in the second half of 2009.
"I am not angry," Alonso said. "No-one do this on purpose. They were fighting, two aggressive drivers on the start, Lewis and Romain and this time it was us in the wrong place and the wrong moment and we were hit.
"It's true also that in 12 races, Romain had seven crashes at the start, so…"
But Alonso did say that it might be a good opportunity to do something to prevent a string of incidents between drivers - Maldonado has also been a repeat visitor to the stewards after a string of incidents this season.
"This time can be a good opportunity," Alonso said.
"It's true we saw some repeat accidents sometimes also for the same people and maybe a different approach can be the solution.

"But it's not easy, all the incidents are different, you need to take a different approach because Formula 1, with the speed, the time, the distance, it is difficult to combine all these three areas.

"Sometimes something that looks spectacular on TV is not so easy to avoid in reality. I'm sure they will do a good job and take care of all the details."
Alonso's retirement, coupled with Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel finishing second, means the German has closed to within 24 points of the Ferrari driver in the championship. Alonso started the race with a 40-point lead.
Alonso said: "It is a shame we could not continue the race. I did not know what happened until I saw the TV. It was difficult to imagine how the hit could be so big.

"The cars behind me touched and lost control, and they were in front of us. It was a disappointment because of the race points lost but also lucky because in five days I can be in the car in Monza."
Hamilton said: "I really don't want to talk about the start. People can see what happened."
Grosjean said he needed to see a TV replay before commenting.
Lotus team boss Eric Boullier has not yet commented.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19458954


I can't actually remember a race ban happening - it would have been Schuey in '94, the last one, but that was just before I started watching F1.

Given Grosjean's record this season, I'm not surprised. I also think Maldonado needs to make sure he behaves for the rest of this year in light of this too...

 

[David]

Hmm, 1 race ban for accidentally causing a big pile up where a Ferrari is knocked out of the race, or a grid penalty for deliberately using your car as a weapon against a Sauber or a McLaren ....

Remind me, what does FIA stand for again? :roll:

Seriously speaking though, of the 7 first lap incidents, how many has Grosjean caused? IIRC, he's caused 2 (including today), and been caught up in other incidents.

 

[Harbon 1]

A race ban is a bit harsh on Grosjean, he didn't get anything (IIRC) after pushing Schuey into the wall at Monaco. The grid penalty for a jump start for Maldonado is what should have happened, especially since he didn't finish the race, although did he even gain an advantage from it?

 

[David]

Yes, Maldonado gained a huge advantage. He was moving a good half second before everyone else and past 2 others before they started moving.

 

[Harbon 1]

Oh at the start he did, but didn't he get tangled up in the mess at the first corner?

 

[David]

Yes, he did, but third going into the corner, then got spun around in the chaos.

 

[Harbon 1]

So ironically, he undid his advantage. Surely this rule shouldn't be the same as the cutting the corner rule, if you overtake someone off the track, you should give the place up? I thought that a drive through and a time penalty would have been enough

 

[DavidBrown]

With Grosjean, when you go into the first corner on the first lap, and do something that takes one driver out, you can't then be suprised that others get involved to, so although Grosjean didn't take Perez out, for instance, his initial actions caused the consatina effect and so a punishment for the whole incident is most definately justified.

IIRC, didn't he get a grid penalty for the Monaco incident? Assuming he did, the FIA will see it as a case of "We've told you once - you didn't listen, so we'll have to use harsher penalties that might make you listen".

As for Maldonado, what was crazy for me with the jump start was the fact that he just kept on going, instead of immediately stopping which might have just earned him a warning - and the karma in his favour in terms of avoiding the first corner incident. The difference between what he's done and what Grosjean did is that a jump start isn't going to threaten to cause serious injury. Of course, since nobody has actually seen what Maldonado and Glock got up to, we can only assume that it was careless rather than reckless driving which earned him a lesser penalty than Grosjean.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I can't actually remember a race ban happening - it would have been Schuey in '94, the last one, but that was just before I started watching F1....

Felipe Massa, 2002, missed the US GP.

 

[craigwilson]

Felipe Massa, 2002, missed the US GP.

As I remember this, he got a grid penalty after an incident in the previous Italian GP, and Sauber, who'd already dropped him from their 2003 line-up, decided to stand him down for the race rather than take the penalty.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Fair enough, sounds a bit extreme though.

 

[Bungle73]

With Grosjean, when you go into the first corner on the first lap, and do something that takes one driver out, you can't then be suprised that others get involved to, so although Grosjean didn't take Perez out, for instance, his initial actions caused the consatina effect and so a punishment for the whole incident is most definately justified.

IIRC, didn't he get a grid penalty for the Monaco incident? Assuming he did, the FIA will see it as a case of "We've told you once - you didn't listen, so we'll have to use harsher penalties that might make you listen".

As for Maldonado, what was crazy for me with the jump start was the fact that he just kept on going, instead of immediately stopping which might have just earned him a warning - and the karma in his favour in terms of avoiding the first corner incident. The difference between what he's done and what Grosjean did is that a jump start isn't going to threaten to cause serious injury. Of course, since nobody has actually seen what Maldonado and Glock got up to, we can only assume that it was careless rather than reckless driving which earned him a lesser penalty than Grosjean.

Stop? A car can't come to a stop at the start of a Grand Prix, jump start or not. That's likely to cause an almighty pile up.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

So ironically, he undid his advantage. Surely this rule shouldn't be the same as the cutting the corner rule, if you overtake someone off the track, you should give the place up? I thought that a drive through and a time penalty would have been enough

Wasn't he out of the race before any penalty could be issued, so a drive through was out of the question leaving only the option of the grid penalty?

 

[Harbon 1]

Wasn't he out of the race before any penalty could be issued, so a drive through was out of the question leaving only the option of the grid penalty?

Thats what I mean, it was their only choice, but if he'd stayed on, a drive through should have done

 

[David]

For those interested, the BBC have a video compilation of Grosjean's first lap incidents from this year.

I know there are a couple of members on here who live outside the UK, so wil not be able to view the video, so a quick summary, and my opibion of who I think was at fault for each 1.

Australia - Maldonado makes the pass going into turn 13 (I think it is), with them being side by side on the exit. Maldonado pushes Grosjean off the track breaking his suspension as a result. Maldonado at fault.

Malaysia - Wet conditions, so possibly he slid into the back of Schumacher causing them both to spin (difficult to tell from the cameras) - Racing incident.

Spain - Perez goes round the outside of Grosjean at turn 2 and squeezes him a bit, picking up a puncture in the process. - Racing incident.

Monaco - Moves all over at the start, before hitting Schumacher - Grosjean at fault.

Silverstone - Grosjean is on the outside, and Paul di Resta cuts across and clips Grosjean, picking up a puncture in the process - Racing incident, leaning towards di Resta at fault.

Hockenheim - Outbrakes himself going into the hairpin, which can happen to anyone, but he avoids all other cars around him - racing incident

Spa - Cuts across Hamilton, making contact and forcing him onto the grass and lose control - Grosjean at fault, and duly punished, as it was a big accident he caused.

So my summary a post or 2 ago, saying he was only responsible for 1 other incident at the start was spot on.

 

[TGV]

McLaren lockout at Monza. Ferrari looking quick but fragile. Red Bull nowhere by their standards. Vettel's max speed on telemetry was 326km/h. McLaren managed 341km/h and 342km/h on Lewis' and Jenson's cars respectively. No, I didn't get that from Hamilton's twitter feed! Newey's high downforce design not working well at Monza, plus I think it is clear now that the Mercedes engine must be ~20bhp up on the Renault.

Lewis and Jenson into the first corner tomorrow. Could be interesting.