OuterDistant
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FA Cup Final- Virgin Trains Press Release
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tbtc
Veteran Member
Was it Network Rail who make kick off over two hours later?
When do you suggest that they do engineering work? On a weekday? Disrupting thousands of commuters? Or at a Bank Holiday (when there aren't the same regular daily travel patterns)?
The fact that the FA have moved it to a Bank Holiday (rather than a "normal" Saturday in the middle of the month) does matter, as there's more chance of engineering works on Bank Holidays
OuterDistant
Member
Ah yes, I'd forgotten about the "Champions, Runners Up, Third, Fourth and Possibly Fifth Placed League"
tbtc
Veteran Member
True.
Bad enough that the semi yesterday had to be fitted around a Premiership fixture on Sky (so couldn't take place at 15:00 or 16:00), but the final really ought to be a 15:00 affair.
But 17:15 on a Bank Holiday is going to struggle to capture much attention
Yes agreed, the Barclays Premier League clash between Liverpool & Chelsea again a 12:45 kick off, has now been re-arranged.
The kick off for the FA Cup could be also down to policing issues within the Metropolitan Police. They would have the Arsenal match, and also the FA Cup final at Wembley.
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The kick off for the FA Cup could be also down to policing issues within the Metropolitan Police. They would have the Arsenal match, and also the FA Cup final at Wembley.
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YorkshireRider
Member
But wer'nt the rules on not showing Saturday 3pm T.V games put in place to protect attendances at all clubs, not just premier league teams? If on that day there is a full league 1/2 fixture list, then going by their own rules the FA cannot show the game at 3pm. This in the past has never been a problem as the final has always been after the last football league games of the season.
Nah - last year there was a Premier League game (involving Man Utd I do believe) at 12:00 on FACup Final day.
YorkshireRider
Member
But were there any other league games which kicked off at the SAME (3pm) time as the final??
Not to my knowledge. No mention of it on the BBC live text for that day.
Let's face it - it's bad planning by the FA. Catastrophically bad. They COULD easily have sorted it all out. Unfortunately, Sky and ITV came calling.
Yes there was a game that kicked off at the same time :
Sunderland vs Wolves
The Blackburn vs Man Utd game was a 12:45pm kick off.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9483110.stm would indicate Sunderland v Wolves finished at 1436 BST.
YorkshireRider
Member
I dont see why the FA, ESPN or ITV would care if it was 3pm or 5:15pm, or at least i cant think of a reason. However 24 league teams are playing at home that day at 3pm, so thats 24 chairman who are going to turnaround and tell the FA they are breaking their own rules playing a televised game at the same time and we are going to sue for lost earnings.
Bakerbloke
Member
Other operators should step in. I noticed on Saturday a Meridian tearing through the Hope Valley. Turns out it was to accommodate Aintree visitors. EMT could run spare trains from St Pancras to Liverpool via Chesterfield, Dore Curve and through Manchester. They used to do this route to Manchester during major West Coast works.
If the line from Crewe - Liverpool is closed from 08:00 in what way is it the time that is important? Unless you are suggesting an 03:00 kick-off.
As a regular traveller to football games by train, I am one of the first to complain about the antics of football authorities in scheduling and re-scheduling games at stupid times.
However, it's a national disgrace that an event in North London that will finish by 8pm on a Saturday, even it it goes to extra time and penalties, does not allow people to get home. Is there any other major economy in Europe that has such a dreadful Saturday night train service going home from its biggest entertainment city on weekend nights? Even if you can afford the £65 per person for a West End show, you are then forced to part with another £150+ for a hotel if you live anywhere on the WCML north of Rugby on the Trent Valley branch.
There should be an obligation on both transport franchisees and highways authorities to have to liaise with organisers of major events to ensure that additional transport capacity is put in place. They can do it for the Olympics, so why not other major events? I've lost count of the number of times large stretches of the M6 have been reduced to one lane at 10pm on a weekday evening just as four PL football matches are finishing in the North West causing 2 hour delays, when any sensible strategy would have delayed the closure for an hour.
However, it's a national disgrace that an event in North London that will finish by 8pm on a Saturday, even it it goes to extra time and penalties, does not allow people to get home. Is there any other major economy in Europe that has such a dreadful Saturday night train service going home from its biggest entertainment city on weekend nights? Even if you can afford the £65 per person for a West End show, you are then forced to part with another £150+ for a hotel if you live anywhere on the WCML north of Rugby on the Trent Valley branch.
There should be an obligation on both transport franchisees and highways authorities to have to liaise with organisers of major events to ensure that additional transport capacity is put in place. They can do it for the Olympics, so why not other major events? I've lost count of the number of times large stretches of the M6 have been reduced to one lane at 10pm on a weekday evening just as four PL football matches are finishing in the North West causing 2 hour delays, when any sensible strategy would have delayed the closure for an hour.
pitdiver
Member
As someone has said the engineering work is obviously important as it is being done over 3? days. Hopefully the work being done will last a good few years. The FA Cup is just a game of football. To be honest after the celebrations by the winners it will be forgotten and who is really interested apart from Liverpool/Chelsea supporters. We are always complaining about the state of the railways in this country so when NR improve them, some complain.
Let's get our priorities right.
Let's get our priorities right.
Incidentally we've had this discussion countless times down here in S Wales as for a while a couple of years ago, it seemed whenever there is a big rugby game in Cardiff, there were engineering works going on on the SWML and the GWML. Wasn't so much of a problem for many Welsh fans going up valleys and towards Swansea, but for me and my other half, making the short hop to NWP meant comandeering a taxi at 9pm at night. God knows how the oppo fans got home.
In this case, I think the FA have got it badly wrong. The engineering works must be done with zero consideration for any external factors and 100% consideration for the long term safety of the railway travelling public; after all, if dodgy track replacement was abandoned for the convenience of 40000 Scousers and we then had another Hatfield, we know where the blame would be pointed. The FA have the power, authority and ability to shift the KO time, but due to their self-admitted financial desires, they won't.
In this case, I think the FA have got it badly wrong. The engineering works must be done with zero consideration for any external factors and 100% consideration for the long term safety of the railway travelling public; after all, if dodgy track replacement was abandoned for the convenience of 40000 Scousers and we then had another Hatfield, we know where the blame would be pointed. The FA have the power, authority and ability to shift the KO time, but due to their self-admitted financial desires, they won't.
Personally speaking it shows how fragmented the system is nowadays. Everything is at the convenience to the railways . Do as we say! There has been no thought about how fans could be transported to stations to catch the trains operating from Crewe. Crewe is a big station but it has a small entrance. It would be chaos.
Fans are fairly au fait in getting plans together to travel and will ultimately travel en masse by coaches and cars.
The carbon reduction factor that most workplaces are signed up to nowadays will be thrown out of the window by the railways.
A great opportunity for all sectors of the railway industry to work together to enable thousands to travel by train has been lost. There are always options if service providers want to use them. In this case, they have all declined and stuck a big 2 fingers in the face of tax payers. Shame on you!
Fans are fairly au fait in getting plans together to travel and will ultimately travel en masse by coaches and cars.
The carbon reduction factor that most workplaces are signed up to nowadays will be thrown out of the window by the railways.
A great opportunity for all sectors of the railway industry to work together to enable thousands to travel by train has been lost. There are always options if service providers want to use them. In this case, they have all declined and stuck a big 2 fingers in the face of tax payers. Shame on you!
Blindtraveler
Established Member
i should have been attending this game as a guest of somebody Iv been working for but due to hotel costs and the fact that Anglo Scottish coach services are already full (i guep with fans chosing to go by these means to stops e.g. manchester and Preston for connections/pickup) I am unable to go. Shame on the FA.
I remember it well and loved it, 19 quid first class return with Midland Mainline at the weekend. Took a bit longer but who cared?
There was talk that this couldn't be done now as St Pancras doesn't have enough platforms but I'm sure it could be done as a one off.
Which sections of track are closed?
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Too many league clubs would suffer if the FA Cup was televised while their fixtures were on at 3pm on that Saturday.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
On the Saturday:
Weaver Jn-Edge Hill closes at 0800 (includes Hunts Cross-LSP)
Crewe-Warrington closes at 1100 (some Voyagers run via Chester)
Warrington-Wigan closes 1800
Euston-Manchester/Chester unaffected.
On the Sunday:
Same lines closed, also Euston-Rugby and Preston-Carstairs
VT Voyager shuttle Euston-Nuneaton via Banbury, connections forward
Late start Monday.
It's actually the law.
TV companies are not allowed to televise matches which clash with 3pm Saturday lower league matches.
There is even a law to say the FA cup final must be shown on a free to air TV channel.
The FA cup should be the week after the final league games but when he was England manager Sven got that changed to give England players more time to prepare for big tournaments.
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Hopefully Virgin put more dragged Pendolinos on Chesters then. After all some Liverpool fans from The Wirral and Cheshire would use Chester services anyway.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
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On the contrary. Major possessions are planned two years in advance. They DO attempt to work round events such as the FA cup final, there's a long list of such events shown with dates in the preamble to the engineering access statement. But the FA have re-arranged this final during the intervening two years.
At the moment, Network Rail believe the 2013 final is on the weekend of the 5-6 May 2013, and that's what they'll be planning around. If the FA subsequently change it in early 2013 I can't see how NR can take any flak...
Network Rail also don't know who will be in the final until weeks before. There is a high chance of a team from either Liverpool or Manchester being involved and a low chance of a team from the South Coast being involved. So they could arrange Portsmouth-London engineering work the FA cup weekend and find that Portsmouth get to the final.
Engineering works may be planned 2 years in advance but it's common place for someone to buy an Advance ticket as soon as it's released and for engineering work to be made public between the purchase and the actual date, especially when it's engineering work occurring for only one weekend.
I know its the law. The FA are the ones in the wrong here as they have shuffled the time about to satisfy higher powers (UEFA) and yet people are giving NR stick for keeping to their planned engineering works.
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