FA Cup Final- Virgin Trains Press Release

[WatcherZero]

Network Rail have put out a press release saying they were consulted by the FA and advised them strongly against that date.

 

[cuccir]

It seems that the fans and those wanting to travel have been caught between power battles between various institutions - the FA, Premier League, Network Rail, Virgin Trains, London Midland, ITV, ESPN - all of whom, collectively, have screwed over the travelling public/football fans. If any ONE of those had really wanted (particularly FA, Network Rail, ITV/ESPN, but the others share the blame too) then they could have avoided this situation.

None of them should be arrogant enough to blame only the other parties; the situation is a result of collective failure.

 

[pemma]

Network Rail have put out a press release saying they were consulted by the FA and advised them strongly against that date.

And what if the Police advised them against another date for other reasons? The FA would need to take more notice of the police as no police = playing the match behind closed doors.
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On the Saturday:
Weaver Jn-Edge Hill closes at 0800 (includes Hunts Cross-LSP)
Crewe-Warrington closes at 1100 (some Voyagers run via Chester)
Warrington-Wigan closes 1800
Euston-Manchester/Chester unaffected.

Just thinking about this is there any reason why Virgin can't start a couple of Liverpool-London services between 08:00 and 11:00 short at Hartford, which has platforms able to take 11 carriages and a larger car park than most stations?

 

[jopsuk]

the early cup final is also partly down to the European Championships being early- the FA Cup and Premiership both need to be concluded something like four weeks before the championships start. The Euros are early to make sure they're not too close to the Olympics.

 

[YorkshireRider]

the early cup final is also partly down to the European Championships being early- the FA Cup and Premiership both need to be concluded something like four weeks before the championships start. The Euros are early to make sure they're not too close to the Olympics.

Exactly, its just a load of circumstances which have come together this year which is a one off and bad luck for Liverpool fans wanting to use the train but im sure they will work round it. It either had to be a late or early kick off given it had to be that saturday given everthing else outlined in this thread.

 

[lfc84]

Will holders of tickets valid on London Midland only or Virgin only be allowed to take any other reasonable route?

ie. via Chiltern to Birmingham, or via Manchester or via Leeds?

If so, where will this be stated?

 

[tbtc]

Network Rail have put out a press release saying they were consulted by the FA and advised them strongly against that date.

Good - I'm glad that that railways aren't lying back and taking the blame for this engineering work (which was planned well over a year in advance).

Also, I don't think anyone has pointed out on this thread yet (?) that there are no engineering works allowed during the Olympic weeks, which does kind of force Network Rail to perform upgrades on the other weekends (reference to the GEML engineering this weekend clashing with the London Marathon etc). Stop them from doing engineering over the Olympic weeks and of course they are going to have to schedule more for the other weeks.

Plus, since we only found out that Liverpool would be playing in the final a few days ago, do people think that NR should ensure that there are *no* engineering works on any line to/from London that weekend? What if it was a team from elsewhere in England/Wales who qualified? Would people rather that the planned upgrade was postponed for several months to suit Liverpool fans?

 

[lfc84]

Its has been known that a team from the city of Liverpool would play in the final since Everton beat Sunderland in their quarter final replay. So it was known that a team from the city of Liverpool would be in the final since 27 March.

 

[tbtc]

Its has been known that a team from the city of Liverpool would play in the final since Everton beat Sunderland in their quarter final replay. So it was known that a team from the city of Liverpool would be in the final since 27 March.

True, that's a fair point.

But the engineering work has been planned for a lot longer than that - should Network Rail have scheduled this around the possibility of a Merseyside team qualifying for the final (bearing in mind that we've seen Stoke, Cardiff, Portsmouth etc in recent finals, should we ensure that there are no engineering works on those lines to/from London too?).

 

[ushawk]

Its has been known that a team from the city of Liverpool would play in the final since Everton beat Sunderland in their quarter final replay. So it was known that a team from the city of Liverpool would be in the final since 27 March.

So 1 months notice to cancel important work that has been planned for 2 years in advance, cant happen. No idea why the FA couldnt of just played it with a 12.45 kick-off as fans could leave Liverpool before the works started and they could get back, possibly with Virgin running extras to Chester, to connect with a possibly enhanced Merseyrail service.

 

[londonbridge]

It's actually the law.

TV companies are not allowed to televise matches which clash with 3pm Saturday lower league matches.

There is even a law to say the FA cup final must be shown on a free to air TV channel.

Not showing live matches at 3pm is not actually the law,rather it's a Uefa directive. Each member of Uefa may nominate a two and a half hour period during which no live football may be shown within the member teritory. In the case of the FA this period is 14.45-17.15 on Saturday. However certain matches are exempt and may be shown during the blackout period,these include any match involving the senior national team,any match which,under government legislation must be shown on free-to-air television,and any other match designated to be of national importance. So the fact that the FA Cup final must be shown on free-to-air (which,as you correctly say,IS the law),actually makes it exempt from the blackout period. It could still be shown at 3pm,it's actually the tv companies who insisted on the 5.15 kick-off rather than the FA.

 

[telstarbox]

Network Rail have put out a press release saying they were consulted by the FA and advised them strongly against that date.

Can you link to the release?

 

[lfc84]

If the engineering works have been planned for 2 years then I can understand the reluctance to cancel them. I think the situation would be helped if people who hold 'LM only' or 'VT only' tickets are informed whether or not they can get on other operators and what routes they can or cannot take. That would at least rule out the uncertainty

 

[dangie]

This is deviating slightly from the topic but still a viable arguement is that the football season is far too long. Back in my younger days the FA Cup Final was the last game of the season bar none. Also if my memory serves me correctly it was held on the first Saturday in May. The new season didn't start until September. Looking on the Football League website the dates for this current season are: Start August 6th, Play-off Final May 27th. That makes the season 6-7 weeks longer than it used to be. Of course clubs whinge and moan about all the extra games but they need them to help pay their way. An unused football ground is not making any money.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Not showing live matches at 3pm is not actually the law,rather it's a Uefa directive. Each member of Uefa may nominate a two and a half hour period during which no live football may be shown within the member teritory. In the case of the FA this period is 14.45-17.15 on Saturday. However certain matches are exempt and may be shown during the blackout period,these include any match involving the senior national team,any match which,under government legislation must be shown on free-to-air television,and any other match designated to be of national importance. So the fact that the FA Cup final must be shown on free-to-air (which,as you correctly say,IS the law),actually makes it exempt from the blackout period. It could still be shown at 3pm,it's actually the tv companies who insisted on the 5.15 kick-off rather than the FA.

Intresting that the cup final is exempt, didnt realise that, however the T.V companies still have a voluntary agreement not to air any live football on saturday at 3pm if there are league fixtures been played. Yes its only voluntary so if this fixture doesnt fall in the uefa directive they could do it i guess but that would be pulling the rug on all those lower league teams who may suffer loss of gate revenue just to suit Liverpool fans using the train. Guess its down to personal opinion what the right thing to do is in this situation.

 

[Butts]

Lets hope those amateurs at ITV don't miss any goals this time

All listed events should be on the BBC -

Put any sporting event head to head between the BBC and any other Broadcaster and the BBC will win hands down - I wonder why ?

With regard to the Liverpool fans couldn't some enterprising persons stick a few 747's on to get fans back to Liverpool or Manchester if John Lennon can't take 747's.

 

[OwlMan]

............... I think the situation would be helped if people who hold 'LM only' or 'VT only' tickets are informed whether or not they can get on other operators and what routes they can or cannot take. That would at least rule out the uncertainty

Virgin and LM have issued replacement timetables for their services either using bus replacement or diverted services - no further easements are necessary.
The problem is the evening kick-off means that the fans are not guaranteed to make the last services north.

 

[Lampshade]

Besides we all know most Liverpool fans can simply go from their local tube station

No no, this is Liverpool, not Man United.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

No no, this is Liverpool, not Man United.

Indeed, their fans live in the home counties rather than London itself. So as long as the suburban stopper to Weybridge is running they should be okay.
Okay, apologies for the poor attempt at humour. Yes, Liverpool do have more armchair fans than most other clubs and these are spread all over the countries, especially in areas like the home counties where there can be a dearth of local teams to support. Most of those people wont be going to the game though because they will be unable to get tickets because Liverpool FC will issue tickets to season ticket holders and people who attend games regularly. They are looking after their most important customers by doing that rather than catering to the people who are suddenly interested because something big is happening. You could argue that by scheduling the engineering works over a bank holiday weekend the railway is doing the same thing.


Back to the point though, Network Rail are stuck between a rock and a hard place here. The FA have been extremely unhelpful by moving the kick off time and the date doesn't help either. It will mean bad press for Network Rail because most of the public think of the cup final first and then how fans are going to get there, but in this case is it a vocal minority? I dont know how many Liverpool fans will be coming down from Liverpool, but lets assume Liverpool FC are issued with 30,000 tickets to the game how many of those will choose to travel by train to the game? 20%? More? Less?

 

[johnnychips]

So lets put some air replacement services on can't Virgin Trains and Virgin Atlantic sort it out :roll:

A 747 must hold nearly as many as a train and could do the journey in 30 mins tops

One of the busiest weekends; planes already spoken for. You could try

http://www.atlashelicopters.co.uk/l...liverpool-5-15pm-5th-may-2012-wembley-stadium

But it doesn't give a price!

 

[andykn]

Could Charters not take up the slack?

They could maybe go from Wembley Central via Manchester, Eccles and Rainhill.

And even if there were no engineering works isn't there only one train to Liverpool after the footie at 20.11 and that's tight.

 

[Ferret]

I'm amazed the Police haven't put their foot down on this fiasco. The FA have screwed this up good and proper!

 

[sonic2009]

Can Pendolinos stop at Wembley Central?

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

 

[Lampshade]

Can Pendolinos stop at Wembley Central?

If you ignore the obvious lack of OHLE, possibly.

 

[Failed Unit]

If you ignore the obvious lack of OHLE, possibly.

I thought Wembley central was on the WCML and Wembley stadium was on the chiltern lines.

 

[island]

I'm amazed the Police haven't put their foot down on this fiasco. The FA have screwed this up good and proper!

On an unrelated point, a lot of Virgin down trains last Saturday had to be declared dry...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If you ignore the obvious lack of OHLE, possibly.

OHLE aplenty at Wembley Central , maybe you were thinking of the unelectrified Stadium station on the Chiltern Main Line?

On an unrelated point, a lot of Virgin down trains last Saturday had to be declared dry...

Indeed, I boarded one on Saturday. It was displayed on the screens underneath every affected train, which I think was all VT services ex-Euston except for those to Birmingham and Wolves. On my way down to the platform I was stopped by the BTP (I think), asked if I had any alcohol, to which I replied 'No'. He then asked to check my bag. I let him, and he gave both sides of my bag a fairly hefty pat, and let me continue to the train

 

[Lampshade]

I thought Wembley central was on the WCML and Wembley stadium was on the chiltern lines.

OHLE aplenty at Wembley Central , maybe you were thinking of the unelectrified Stadium station on the Chiltern Main Line?

I was thinking of Wembley Central, I was going off the Wikipedia picture - of the DC lines

 

[pemma]

A 747 must hold nearly as many as a train and could do the journey in 30 mins tops

From where to where exactly?

There's Liverpool fans living in Runcorn, Hartford and Winsford. If they have to take a replacement bus service north to South Parkway, then a bus to Liverpool Airport then by the time they've arrived at Liverpool Airport they could have been 30 minutes south of Crewe had the trains been running.

Also where will you get a 747 from? Cancel a London to New York service?

Most of the planes based at Liverpool are Airbus 319s and 320s.
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Indeed, their fans live in the home counties rather than London itself. So as long as the suburban stopper to Weybridge is running they should be okay.

We've got Chelsea and Arsenal fans living up here so the argument works both ways.

You could argue that by scheduling the engineering works over a bank holiday weekend the railway is doing the same thing.

With Merseyrail being the busiest rail system outside London, I'm sure many of the Liverpool fans travelling to Wembley are regular rail users.

I dont know how many Liverpool fans will be coming down from Liverpool, but lets assume Liverpool FC are issued with 30,000 tickets to the game how many of those will choose to travel by train to the game? 20%? More? Less?

If you assume 20% then that's 6000 or over 12 x 9 car Pendolinos fully seated, alternatively 120 National Express coaches if people are put off travelling by train.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

With Merseyrail being the busiest rail system outside London, I'm sure many of the Liverpool fans travelling to Wembley are regular rail users.

I always thought it was the Glasgow area that was second busiest?