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Face coverings compulsory on public transport in England from 15 June

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Bletchleyite

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So there will be an end to the restriction of 7 people maximum on the bus.
As from what I heard I was under the impression this is still going to continue.

Again not much was said on that, but there was some murmuring about distancing "not always being possible", so I wouldn't be surprised to see it, if it proves necessary (which it probably will) coming with a slight relaxation in that context only, probably to something like only one out of each pair of seats being occupied (no empty rows), mitigated (psychologically and actually) by the use of face coverings.
 
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Domh245

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Try running water through a cloth under your kitchen sink. See how the vast majority travels straight through? Now imagine a sneeze at 6-8m/s. Similar result.

If you are sneezing and the equivalent of a constant stream is coming out, then you really ought to stay at home/see a doctor as a matter of course. For a more accurate 'simulation', try a spray bottle and see how much gets through.

Ps, don't let perfection be the enemy of the good...
 

Bletchleyite

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Ps, don't let perfection be the enemy of the good...

This Forum very often does that. It has benefits in weeding out really bad ideas or improving them (@Bantamzen don't you dare :D ) but if we were as a Forum running a Government or a TOC we'd never make any decisions.

Regarding masks, there's reasonable if in some ways anecdotal evidence that it might work, they cost next to nothing (or literally nothing if you make your own from an old rag) and for most people they are tolerable, and we can make exceptions for those who for medical reasons they are not. It seems mad not to at least try (give it 3 weeks to see the effect or otherwise on the figures), and it's certainly better than denying non-car-users their mobility.
 

NorthOxonian

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The one positive I'm taking is the focus on face coverings and not masks. I find masks look much too sinister, and even homemade ones just seem clinical to most people.

I think there'd be much wider acceptance in general society of face coverings, if we promoted something like snoods or scarves instead (ones which cover the nose and mouth of course).
 

Bletchleyite

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I think there'd be much wider acceptance in general society of face coverings, if we promoted something like snoods or scarves instead (ones which cover the nose and mouth of course).

A Buff (which I think is a branded snood, though in the world of outdoorsy people "Buff" has pretty much become genericised) works reasonably well, but I find that they tend to slip down, and also because they cover the ears (I find if put lower down it won't stay on) you get a quite claustrophobic feel because you hear your breathing too loudly. So I bought a couple of washable mask style coverings instead.
 

Bald Rick

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Is this the quickest thread ever?

0-100 posts in little over an hour
0-200 in 4 hours.
 

NorthOxonian

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A Buff (which I think is a branded snood, though in the world of outdoorsy people "Buff" has pretty much become genericised) works reasonably well, but I find that they tend to slip down, and also because they cover the ears (I find if put lower down it won't stay on) you get a quite claustrophobic feel because you hear your breathing too loudly. So I bought a couple of washable mask style coverings instead.

I suppose that makes sense - I'm just not a huge fan of the most commonly seen style of mask, especially when it's in that light turquoise colour. I don't know exactly what you'd call that variety, but it is very grating. And as an added bonus, it looks particularly garish when left as litter.
 

Starmill

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Even gov.uk realises that masks don't really protect you lol
"The evidence suggests that wearing a face covering does not protect you, but it may protect others if you are infected but have not yet developed symptoms. "
That's an accurate statement based on the current evidence, and a sensible reason to mandate the wearing of a face covering.

What is so funny?
 

Bletchleyite

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I suppose that makes sense - I'm just not a huge fan of the most commonly seen style of mask, especially when it's in that light turquoise colour. I don't know exactly what you'd call that variety, but it is very grating. And as an added bonus, it looks particularly garish when left as litter.

The actual medical ones I'd agree (I have 2 of those from a recent hospital visit, and they wash OK at 40 degrees despite appearing to be paper). But lots of different clothing manufacturers now seem to be tripping over each other to come up with interesting designs. The two new ones I've got come from Oddballs for example.
 

Starmill

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I think the wearing of masks is a good idea but you make a very good point about laws being changed without due consultation.

There’s probably a good reason for these laws being challenged and/or possibly being declared unlawful.
I am very much in agreement with all of this.
 

Starmill

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That even the government realises that masks don't always work.
They don't need to work always though do they? Working 60% of the time has a very significant downward effect on the reproduction rate of the virus. Perfection is unnecessary.
 

Trainfan2019

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I returned to work this week and had to wear a mask on my train journeys and throughout the stations. I am complying in full with this and shall continue to do so (I have no problem wearing a mask). My trains have been almost empty of other passengers so far this week - so far so good. However, I've hardly seen anyone else wearing a mask on the train or throughout the stations. Be interesting to see how things go with the compulsory ruling.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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Be interesting to see how things go with the compulsory ruling.
The exact same as how lockdown went. Most people complying, with minority not complying and will be pretty damn stubborn about it, especially as there's not really that much science promoting the use of coverings (and if there was then the ruling probably would have been brought in before now I'd imagine).

Part of me thinks that the Government have imposed this to portray an image of "Look! We're actually doing something!"
 

Mugby

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Part of me thinks that the Government have imposed this to portray an image of "Look! We're actually doing something!"

Yes, I agree, even though it's more futile rubbish made up as they go along. Actually I blame the 'expert advisers' more than the Government. I'm beginning to think they are the problem, not the fount of all wisdom they may initially have been thought to be.

What I'd like to know is; when this mask wearing commences, will it mean that the severe capacity limitations on trains (up to 90% on some TOCs) will be discontinued from the same date?
The lack of clarity about things like this is mind boggling!
 

geoffk

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I'm all for it if enables more people to use public transport. It's already compulsory in France. I made short journeys by train and bus today and wore mine made out of an old sock. No idea how effective it was. Heritage railways will probably also require them when they reopen.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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What I'd like to know is; when this mask wearing commences, will it mean that the severe capacity limitations on trains (up to 90% on some TOCs) will be discontinued from the same date?
The lack of clarity about things like this is mind boggling!
That would make sense, even if 1 in every 2 seats were restricted (obviously not at tables, where 1 in 4 would still apply as sitting face-to-face would probably increase chances of spreading the virus?) it'd make a significant difference.
 

alex397

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I really don't understand why people are against the forced use of face masks on public transport.

if we just have people wearing them if they want, it kind of defeats the point of them. They are worn to help prevent spreading the disease rather than catching it, after all.

There are mixed views from scientists about how effective they are, but surely it's worth doing it until we know more, and if it helps stop the spread just a little bit, even that's worth doing in my opinion.

There are people who think we should just use common sense rather than be forced to do something by government. Common sense? I think there are vast sections of society who lack any common sense, as shown by mass gatherings on beaches and protests.

I think we need to be getting back to 'normal' as soon as possible, and I think wearing face masks is a part of getting back to normal, if it's means it makes people feel safer around others, and helps stop the spread, even if it possibly only a small help.

Of course I do understand the concern about policing this. It can lead to more confrontation between transport staff and the lovely public, which we want to avoid, especially now.
 

alex397

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That even the government realises that masks don't always work.

Even if they don't always work, if they work even just some of the time, then surely it's worth it. We need to get back to normal, and if face masks help do it, then I'm all for it.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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I think wearing face masks is a part of getting back to normal, if it's means it makes people feel safer around others, and helps stop the spread, even if it possibly only a small help.
It certainly didn't mean that back in March when transmission was at its highest... And with scientists saying there's little evidence proving that they are effective, it's only going to make the public more complacent.
 

Hadders

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More shops being open from 15th June means more people on public transport. The cities will be a problem, especially London with workers and shoppers using public transport to get to work or go shopping. So far the Government has advised against all but essential use of public transport but this will start to break down once non-essential retail re-opens.

Social distancing on public transport at 2m is impossible after 15 June. My view is the Governement are bringing in the face covering requirement to provide public reassurance as public transport becomes busier and social distancing on it starts to become impossible.
 

SouthEastBuses

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Even if they don't always work, if they work even just some of the time, then surely it's worth it. We need to get back to normal, and if face masks help do it, then I'm all for it.

I agree with you. As much as I don't like wearing a mask for long periods, I can adapt to this new normal for now whenever necessary. Also because I'd love to travel abroad sometime in late August, hoping that the air bridges become reality and that the FCO finally lifts its advice against non essential international travel.
 
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SouthEastBuses

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Who knows if gloves will also become compulsory on public transport just like they are in Italy.
 

Tetchytyke

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Actually I blame the 'expert advisers' more than the Government. I'm beginning to think they are the problem, not the fount of all wisdom they may initially have been thought to be.

That's the message Boris and chums are very carefully and insidious pushing. "It's not our fault we've buggered everything up, it's the scientists". Aye right.

Advisers advise. They don't command. And we don't even know what they advised, because Boris and chums won't let us see unredacted papers. Fancy that.

The blame stays with Boris and chums.


My view is the Governement are bringing in the face covering requirement to provide public reassurance

Mine too.

"We must do something. This is something. Therefore we must do this".
 

Hadders

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Who knows if gloves will also become compulsory on public transport just like they are in Italy.

Gloves just provide a false sense of security. As soon as you touch your nose or face you've got the same level of risk as with bare hands. Then you've got to get the gloves off without touching them....

Far better to sanitise hands regularly. I'm not a big fan of GTR but I took a walk through Stevenage station over the weekend and noticed that they have hand sanitiser dispensers before and after the barriers. Well done GTR.
 

778

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Would this mean that masks would be compulsory on the concourses of the major stations, as well as the platforms and trains?
 

flymo

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Reading this thread makes me realise why the infection rates and death rates are still so high in UK as people just don't seem to get it. Masks do help to reduce the infection rate and help prevent (not stop) the spread of this virus. Do I have medical proof that everyone seems to think MUST be produced before this is even deemed to be true, no of course not but I do have practical and real life proof. In Hong Kong where I live we've been wearing masks, using sanatiser etc, on public transport since this first started here back in Jan and the infection rate has today topped out at around 1,100 with just 4 deaths. There is precious little social distancing possible in such a densely populated city so here, we put the incredibly low infection rate down to one thing, masks. Anyone using buses or trains here will see we get crammed in with precious little space for yourself but the infection rate remains very low.

Bus drivers here wear masks all the time and they just get on with it. Of course people still drink water, simply pop the mask down, take a drink and refit, it's not rocket science.

Still in Britain it'll all be done differently, and reading some of comments there are in this thread I think it'll be along time before I'm able to or even wiling to return to Britain as the virus will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

Wear a mask please, it'll help reduce the infection rate so lives can get back to normal much sooner. That's what Britain wants, right ?
 

Tetchytyke

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Do I have medical proof that everyone seems to think MUST be produced before this is even deemed to be true, no of course not but I do have practical and real life proof.

Anecdote is not the same as data.

Here we have no active cases and of our 24 deaths 20 were in one care home, which has been shut down by the government. No masks are compulsory here. It doesn't prove anything.

The Chinese police on the streets of Hong Kong might also be the reason.

There is no evidence that masks stop you contracting Covid, and there is only circumstantial evidence that masks stop you spreading Covid.
 
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