Face coverings compulsory on public transport in England from 15 June

[Yew]

That only works if you have symptoms. Surely you can't be unaware that many (maybe even, most) people with the virus have no symptoms and will therefore be unaware that they pose an infection risk.

If you're not coughing or sneezing, I think it's reasonable to suggest that the mass of material being emitted from your respiratory system is much lower, and hence there is a correspondingly much lower risk of transmission anyway.

If you are coughing and sneezing, you shouldn't be on public transport, and we should be strengthening the measures to make sure that people aren't adversely effected if the have to self isolate. Let's not forget that they're not even entitled to priority delivery from supermarkets at the moment; despite their sacrifice being one of the most valuable tools we have.

 

[Mojo]

Why the NRCoT I wonder? Why not the Coronavirus Regulations?

I think that was just speculation from the person who made the post you made? Surely for it to have any legal effect and be enforceable by the police or the legal system (for a fine to be chargeable) then it would have to be either in the byelaws or Coronavirus Regulations.

 

[43066]

Perhaps because, weeks ago, far fewer people were using public transport - meaning that social distancing on public transport was generally much easier, so mask wearing would have been less important.

It’s true they fewer people were using public transport, but it’s also true that there isn’t much evidence that mask wearing in public makes much difference to transmission - indeed the WHO doesn’t seem to think it does.

There's some evidence though - enough to make it very plausible that it will make a difference to transmission rates. And given that, for the vast majority of people, wearing a mask is just a very minor inconvenience, it seems sensible to take action that probably lowers transmission.

We need to balance the effectiveness of measures taken against their encroachment on people’s’ personal freedoms (and “freedom” has been in short supply over the last few months!).

I would suggest this kind of invasive measure should only be adopted where there is clear and unequivocal scientific consensus on its benefits - not on the basis of “it’ll probably help”.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite, yet there is no compulsion to wear masks in indoor spaces and in shops etc very few people do.

And because it is an altrustic thing (it protects against large droplets getting out from your mouth and nose, not against smaller droplets when they've passed through the air and aerosolised) the only way, if effective, is mandation. People in the UK are not altruistic enough by and large to wear a mask to protect someone else.

It only makes sense for it to be optional if it was to protect yourself, and it's not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that was just speculation from the person who made the post you made? Surely for it to have any legal effect and be enforceable by the police or the legal system (for a fine to be chargeable) then it would have to be either in the byelaws or Coronavirus Regulations.

No, Grant Shapps confirmed on the briefing that for rail it will be via the NRCoT and for bus it will be via the PCV Regulations (which is a piece of legislation, I understand).

I wonder if this might remain as a residual measure for longer, well beyond the Coronavirus (Restrictions) Regulations 2020, and so this means it doesn't get in the way of sunsetting that when the time is right?

He did mumble when asked about fines, so I wonder if he's realised that none can be applied by this method?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I suspect the reason for this coming in, is that we’re about to see the 2 metre social distancing guidance being reduced, with emphasis that social distancing on public transport may not be possible, as we see the next round of an increase of services in the next few weeks.

I hope that's the reason otherwise it seems bizarre that , now the pandemic is coming to an end, the restrictions on our freedom are increasing!

I would say that on my travels to work over the last few weeks less than 10 per cent of travellers have been wearing masks. I wonder if it will turn out that Grant Shapps owns shares in a mask producing company?

 

[mmh]

We were told right at the start of all this that sneezing was not a symptom. Some of us have sneezes which are triggered by light and are unconnected to any illness.

On a practical level, if I'm going to have to wear one, where do I buy them? None of the open shops in my area scream out as being the mask shop, but a fair few people have got them from somewhere.

 

[Mojo]

No, Grant Shapps confirmed on the briefing that for rail it will be via the NRCoT and for bus it will be via the PCV Regulations (which is a piece of legislation, I understand).

I wonder if this might remain as a residual measure for longer, well beyond the Coronavirus (Restrictions) Regulations 2020, and so this means it doesn't get in the way of sunsetting that when the time is right?

I know that and saw the briefing but what Im saying, is how can a “fine” be issued when the NRCoT is a contractual document and thus any sort of financial penalty cannot be issued by the police for any failures to comply?

One of the briefing questions also confirmed that transport staff will not be responsible for enforcing this.

 

[tj1997]

As long as it's time limited, and removed at the earliest safe opportunity and coincides with admittance that 2m distancing is completley unworkable on public transport, it seems a sensible comprimise. Although I do have the impression that this simply another attempt to placate the doom-mongers and obsessive worriers, much like the quarantine plan which despite that horse having bolted a long time ago, seemingly has massive public support.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would say that on my travels to work over the last few weeks less than 10 per cent of travellers have been wearing masks. I wonder if it will turn out that Grant Shapps owns shares in a mask producing company?

Given that it's a face covering (e.g. a scarf), not specifically a mask, this seems improbable.

We were told right at the start of all this that sneezing was not a symptom. Some of us have sneezes which are triggered by light and are unconnected to any illness.

Sneezing is indeed not a symptom, but if you do have an asymptomatic case and sneeze, e.g. due to hay fever, that will spread it everywhere (far more than 2m).

On a practical level, if I'm going to have to wear one, where do I buy them? None of the open shops in my area scream out as being the mask shop, but a fair few people have got them from somewhere.

Tons of them online, or cut up an old T-shirt or bedsheet and make your own.

 

[RogerOut]

More rules for the driver to worry about. Not only policing social distancing measures on the bus but now everyone will have to be screened when they board to check their face is covered.
Some people in society unfortunately live on another planet and do not seem to know what’s going on in the world. At the start of the lockdown I remember people still trying to turn up at our depot trying to make complaints about our drivers, just as the world was being turned upside down.
Good luck to us all.

 

[6Gman]

That would be useful, I haven't seen hand sanitizer for sale since February.

Plenty available in this part of Cheshire. Bought a bottle on Monday from a box of dozens.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know that and saw the briefing but what Im saying, is how can a “fine” be issued when the NRCoT is a contractual document and thus any sort of financial penalty cannot be issued by the police for any failures to comply?

I suspect it can't, which is why I think he mumbled the answer when one of the Press questions picked up on precisely that.

 

[6Gman]

If you are likely to be spreading the virus then you should be self-isolating at home not swanning round shops and using public transport.

If you are asymptomatic, as many cases are, then you will not know that you could be spreading the virus.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Has it been clarified that mandatory mask-wearing only applies when you're actually on the train, not while you're on the platform waiting for it?

 

[Class 33]

Hoping this will only be very temporary until soon after the daily Coronavirus deaths have reached ZERO(which should be by the end of this month) and the social distancing rules will HOPEFULLY be scrapped. Otherwise with face coverings be compulsory on public transport, I can't see it being very appealing to people going on long coach and train journeys of a few hours or so, and having to keep their face coverings on at all times and not being allowed to temporarily take them off for a short period to have a drink and have a snack or sandwich!

 

[6Gman]

Quite, yet there is no compulsion to wear masks in indoor spaces and in shops etc very few people do.

I think there are 2 key differences between public transport and shops.

1. Social distancing is easier in shops.
2. Prolonged person to person contact is more likely on public transport. I can be sitting yards away from you on a train for an hour or longer; in shops we pass for a few seconds.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has it been clarified that mandatory mask-wearing only applies when you're actually on the train, not while you're on the platform waiting for it?

It was only mumbled on the briefing, but I'm sure I heard something on it that suggested it would be from entering the station to leaving the station at your destination, as per air travel.

 

[_toommm_]

Bit of a stupid question, but has anyone mastered wearing face masks with glasses without them steaming up? It kind of negates me wearing one if I have to take my glasses off to clean them, thus touching my face!

 

[trebor79]

Just how many hours will a single tube journey be then?

Oh for goodness sake, of course you can remove it for a moment to have a drink.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

There is also the issue of the deaf and hard of hearing who rely on lip-reading and other facial cues. All these will be obscured by a face covering

Therefore, this will be discrimatory to them

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Oh for goodness sake, of course you can remove it for a moment to have a drink.

Or you could just make yourself a mask with a cunning slit at mouth level so you can have a drink whenever you like.

I enjoy a soft drink on the train to work and the occasional beer on the journey home so I know what I'll be doing!

 

[MrTurbostar170]

How will this be enforced on buses, outside London, I can't imagine there are many that will be patrolling buses watching out for anyone not wearing a mask.

 

[Domh245]

If you are coughing and sneezing, you shouldn't be on public transport

Coughing and sneezing are normal bodily functions unrelated to COVID - as a hayfever sufferer I shouldn't be allowed on public transport then?

I hope that's the reason otherwise it seems bizarre that , now the pandemic is coming to an end, the restrictions on our freedom are increasing!

The pandemic isn't really over though, there's still a fairly large number of cases 'in the wild', and letting things go back to how they were means that those cases spread out of hand and we end up where we were in early April again with almost thousands of deaths per day. It's why these measures are being introduced now. We could (should!) have introduced them when we were at a similar level pre-peak, but now we are coming off the back of it, we need to ensure that we keep it under control now that we can manage that without lockdown. It's the same rationale behind the 14 day quarantine, now cases are at a low enough level that they can (theoretically) be traced, the last thing we want is to introduce more.

Bit of a stupid question, but has anyone mastered wearing face masks with glasses without them steaming up? It kind of negates me wearing one if I have to take my glasses off to clean them, thus touching my face!

The closest I've managed is to just breathe through my mouth rather than my nose, but it's not exactly pleasant!

 

[Starmill]

Thank goodness for that! If only it had been done sooner, how much we might have suppressed the new infections.

It was completely unsustainable 'advising' people to wear them, because it came off as 'do as I say, not as I do'.

 

[adc82140]

As a healthcare professional:

1. I think there should be a system of fines for anyone wearing a medical grade mask without good reason.

2. Time to stop the charade of wiping down supermarket trollies. You'll be touching a heck if a lot more than that in the shop. Insist on all customers sanitising hands on entry and exit instead.

3. Get rid of the stupid one way systems in supermarkets. You are simply not going to catch Covid by walking past someone going the other way in the aisles.

 

[Ostrich]

I hope this is going to be a temporary measure, because otherwise the leisure market has just been killed stone dead ....

 

[Weekender]

Oh for goodness sake, of course you can remove it for a moment to have a drink.

And if you remove it remember to wash your hands and put the covering in the washing machine before putting it back on.

 

[robk23oxf]

I can't wait to do a 5 and a half hour stint behind the wheel of a bus whilst wearing a mask.

 

[Starmill]

A worrying development which takes the government's control over our lives to a whole new level.

The government recently made it a crime to leave your home, without a parliamentary vote, with next to no notice and probably ultra vires (without the legal authority to make such an offence in the manner it was done). Requirement to wear a mask on a train is nothing by comparison.