Face coverings mandatory in shops in Scotland

[kez19]

Asda today in my area basically everyone at least a covering on their faces, to think at the start of this it was basically a hit and miss with people for coverings now everyone is. Seen a sign at the entrance saying masks mandatory and I am sure as I was leaving I overheard someone (possibly staff) question someone and explain about coverings.

Regarding mentioned above "fines" for people not wearing, why do you need to go down the route of fining people? Its not exactly anti social behaviour is it?, as I said above if you are going to fine people just comes across to me as another money making scheme of where extra tax will be made, but hell lets push it further jail people for not doing so whilst the real crime out there/criminals are released.... edging towards a tipping point.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regarding mentioned above "fines" for people not wearing, why do you need to go down the route of fining people? Its not exactly anti social behaviour is it?

Yes, unnecessarily giving people a nasty communicable disease (or risking doing so) is antisocial. Very antisocial. The same as people who think it's OK to walk around all over the place with a stinking cold or flu and give it to everyone.

 

[talldave]

So how far back should we retrospectively fine people? Since there might have been some point to mask wearing in February. Now it's pointless as infection rates are dropping so low it's going to take a year of shopping just to get within a few hundred metres of an infected person.

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes, unnecessarily giving people a nasty communicable disease (or risking doing so) is antisocial. Very antisocial. The same as people who think it's OK to walk around all over the place with a stinking cold or flu and give it to everyone.

What a dangerous slippery slope.

 

[45107]

So how far back should we retrospectively fine people?

??
I may have been drinking but I fail to understand the point you are trying to make.

 

[Huntergreed]

I've started to see some of the hostility caused by this rule today. One of the shops in my town has a sign 'no mask, no welcome, no exemptions', and I also heard someone being told to **** off for trying to spread the disease by not wearing one.

This really can't go on, the world is going nasty

 

[Bletchleyite]

What a dangerous slippery slope.

Not at all. I've long had a strong dislike for the "presenteeism culture" in workplaces which causes disease to spread all over the place. If you're sick, stay at home. Nobody wants your germs.

I am not a germophobe, but one person's inconsideration means I (and likely several others) get to "enjoy" 1-2 weeks of feeling like death.

As I said it's inconsiderate. Think of others before thinking of yourself, and in the context of this thread that means wearing a mask where specified unless you absolutely can't (not "don't like it", can't, i.e. it will cause you an actual physical or mental health problem[1], and just disliking something is not a mental health problem). If you really don't want to, avoid those settings. I am reducing my train travel at present because I dislike wearing a mask.

[1] I have asthma, and so could call on the exemption. I'm not going to, because wearing a mask does not cause me breathing issues, it is simply uncomfortable and unpleasant. It would therefore be very wrong, and very, very selfish, for me to call on it.

 

[43066]

Yes, unnecessarily giving people a nasty communicable disease (or risking doing so) is antisocial. Very antisocial. The same as people who think it's OK to walk around all over the place with a stinking cold or flu and give it to everyone.

It’s not “nasty communicable disease” in the vast majority of cases.

A friend of mine has displayed symptoms over the last couple of days so is, quite rightly, self isolating (she’s a registrar Dr., an anaesthetist, before anyone criticises her grammar).

“Yeh I feel absolutlely fine and got loads done. It’s been pretty productive.

Feel a bit fraudulent with this isolation thing now! ‍♀️”

Her symptoms are extremely mild, this condition really is nothing more than a cold for most people...Yet the economy is being trashed.

 

[45107]

I've started to see some of the hostility caused by this rule today. One of the shops in my town has a sign 'no mask, no welcome, no exemptions', and I also heard someone being told to **** off for trying to spread the disease by not wearing one.

This really can't go on, the world is going nasty

Maybe the way to deal with it is to abide by the law ?

The Tory mantra has always been “if you don’t like the time, don’t do the crime” (unless they are on the receiving end of it).

 

[Richard Scott]

Not at all. I've long had a strong dislike for the "presenteeism culture" in workplaces which causes disease to spread all over the place. If you're sick, stay at home. Nobody wants your germs.

I am not a germophobe, but one person's inconsideration means I (and likely several others) get to "enjoy" 1-2 weeks of feeling like death.

As I said it's inconsiderate. Think of others before thinking of yourself, and in the context of this thread that means wearing a mask where specified unless you absolutely can't (not "don't like it", can't, i.e. it will cause you an actual physical or mental health problem, and just disliking something is not a mental health problem). If you really don't want to, avoid those settings.

Sorry to be a bit controversial but it keeps your immune system active, which is very important. None of us want to feel like rubbish for a few days/weeks but if you are exposed to some pathogens then your immune system will deal better with the nasty ones. I've never had flu (thankfully) and that maybe because I'm not massively fussy about being near people who are ill so have a good immune system, maybe someone who knows more about this than I do could actually elaborate? If we all wore facemasks all year round would we actually be making the problem of illness worse? Again, I don't know so perhaps someone could elaborate on that?

 

[Huntergreed]

Maybe the way to deal with it is to abide by the law ?

The Tory mantra has always been “if you don’t like the time, don’t do the crime” (unless they are on the receiving end of it).

And what about those who are genuinely exempt yet are facing abuse like this and being banned from shops, do you think they should just follow that mantra?

 

[adc82140]

Maybe the way to deal with it is to abide by the law ?

It's the job of the police to enforce the law. It's the civic duty of the public to call the police if they see a crime being committed. What has no place in a civilised society is vigilantism. No one should be attempting to enforce the law off their own back.

 

[HSTEd]

And what about those who are genuinely exempt yet are facing abuse like this and being banned from shops, do you think they should just follow that mantra?

They are of no value.
Only coronavirus case numbers matter.

All else is to be sacrificed to this goal.
When retail dies even faster than it was going to, people will perhaps understand what it is they have wrought.

 

[45107]

It’s not “nasty communicable disease” in the vast majority of cases.

A friend of mine has displayed symptoms over the last couple of days so is, quite rightly, self isolating (she’s a registrar Dr., an anaesthetist, before anyone criticises her grammar).

“Yeh I feel absolutlely fine and got loads done. It’s been pretty productive.

Feel a bit fraudulent with this isolation thing now! ‍♀”

Her symptoms are extremely mild, this condition really is nothing more than a cold for most people...Yet the economy is being trashed.

Except for the number of deaths as a result of it. Far in excess of 5 year averages. Apart from the fact that symptoms aren't obvious until you are diagnosed with and potentially infected others.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s not “nasty communicable disease” in the vast majority of cases.

A friend of mine has displayed symptoms over the last couple of days so is, quite rightly, self isolating (she’s a registrar Dr., an anaesthetist, before anyone criticises her grammar).

“Yeh I feel absolutlely fine and got loads done. It’s been pretty productive.

Feel a bit fraudulent with this isolation thing now! ‍♀”

Her symptoms are extremely mild, this condition really is nothing more than a cold for most people...Yet the economy is being trashed.

Wearing masks does not trash the economy, though. If anything, is it possible we could have mandated masks in more settings earlier and reduced the need for the economy-trashing lockdown or its length? One feature of almost all previous pandemics is the wearing of masks.

Sorry to be a bit controversial but it keeps your immune system active, which is very important. None of us want to feel like rubbish for a few days/weeks but if you are exposed to some pathogens then your immune system will deal better with the nasty ones. I've never had flu (thankfully) and that maybe because I'm not massively fussy about being near people who are ill so have a good immune system, maybe someone who knows more about this than I do could actually elaborate? If we all wore facemasks all year round would we actually be making the problem of illness worse? Again, I don't know so perhaps someone could elaborate on that?

There is the interesting question as to whether the reason I haven't (so far as I know) had COVID is that I've had a common cold coronavirus and thus already have partial immunity, or if it's just luck...

 

[talldave]

??
I may have been drinking but I fail to understand the point you are trying to make.

Hmm you'd think I'd been drinking! It was a somewhat sarcastic attempt to highlight the fact that we're bolting the stable door lobg after the horse has bolted.

My point was that mask wearing now is pointless because it'll take a month of sundays to encounter an infected person that were you to get really close to the mask might help you not get infected by. So fining people for risking very little is just wrong.

The time that mask wearing would have been useful was when we were all on heaving trains breathing in each others' faces. Not wearing one then could be considered antisocial....and apparently we should be fined for that.

Every day between now and when the locktivist gestapo force us to wear masks the chances of meeting an infected person are reducing. If it's so important we should have done it weeks ago. Doing it in n weeks time is utterly pointless.

 

[Richard Scott]

Maybe the way to deal with it is to abide by the law ?

The Tory mantra has always been “if you don’t like the time, don’t do the crime” (unless they are on the receiving end of it).

The issue is a number of us would like this law explained scientifically. We understand why we have to wear seatbelts, we understand why there are speed limits etc. but this mask wearing has a very weak basis to say the least especially with the small numbers. I would have understood more if it had been brought in during February/March (the PPE issue shouldn't really be a problem as facemasks you can buy are different to those used by NHS, even if availability was an issue it could have been brought in when it wasn't e.g. May?)

 

[45107]

It's the job of the police to enforce the law. It's the civic duty of the public to call the police if they see a crime being committed. What has no place in a civilised society is vigilantism. No one should be attempting to enforce the law off their own back.

So are you saying that it is legal for someone underage to purchase alcohol unless challenged by a police officer ?
Staff in shops are enforcing the law in the same manner.

 

[adc82140]

Bad example. By selling the alcohol the shop worker is the one breaking the law. Therefore they are acting to stay legal themselves.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So are you saying that it is legal for someone underage to purchase alcohol unless challenged by a police officer ?

I don't think that's what he said at all. What he said was that there should be no vigilanteism, and that your duty as a citizen if you see or suspect a crime being planned or committed is to call the Police, not to attempt to enforce the law yourself, and I completely agree with that.

(Though there are offences like that; most "no street drinking" zones only involve an offence being committed if the drinking continues having been told not to by a Police Officer)

 

[Cowley]

Sorry to be a bit controversial but it keeps your immune system active, which is very important. None of us want to feel like rubbish for a few days/weeks but if you are exposed to some pathogens then your immune system will deal better with the nasty ones. I've never had flu (thankfully) and that maybe because I'm not massively fussy about being near people who are ill so have a good immune system, maybe someone who knows more about this than I do could actually elaborate? If we all wore facemasks all year round would we actually be making the problem of illness worse? Again, I don't know so perhaps someone could elaborate on that?

I’m pretty sure you’re right about that from what I’ve read and also from people I know that work in medicine.
We need to catch things and let our immune system fight them off. Personally I very rarely catch things off other people and I think that’s partly because my other half was a childminder for ten years and we constantly had children coming and going that had various bugs.

 

[Huntergreed]

I’m pretty sure you’re right about that from what I’ve read and also from people I know that work in medicine.
We need to catch things and let our immune system fight them off. Personally I very rarely catch things off other people and I think that’s partly because my other half was a childminder for ten years and we constantly had children coming and going that had various bugs.

This is entirely correct. There's been a fear for a while now that making society 'too clean' is going to actually weaken our immune systems and potentially lower life expectancy, and it looks like this is happening now.

 

[45107]

Hmm you'd think I'd been drinking! It was a somewhat sarcastic attempt to highlight the fact that we're bolting the stable door lobg after the horse has bolted.

My point was that mask wearing now is pointless because it'll take a month of sundays to encounter an infected person that were you to get really close to the mask might help you not get infected by. So fining people for risking very little is just wrong.

The time that mask wearing would have been useful was when we were all on heaving trains breathing in each others' faces. Not wearing one then could be considered antisocial....and apparently we should be fined for that.

Every day between now and when the locktivist gestapo force us to wear masks the chances of meeting an infected person are reducing. If it's so important we should have done it weeks ago. Doing it in n weeks time is utterly pointless.

I agree that it should have been brought in earlier. In the same way that ‘track n trace’ and isolation should have been.
Isolation was imposed at the start and it was classed as an ‘infectious disease’ until case numbers exceeded the capacity to deal with it and, depending on your view, numbers raged out of control.
Now that the level of infection is similar to pre-lockdown, why not use the measures that should have been used at the start to reduce the risk of spread to prevent cases rising again ?

 

[adc82140]

It used to amaze me that the people living in squalor in those Kim & Aggie programmes said they were hardly ever ill. Perhaps this is the reason.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m pretty sure you’re right about that from what I’ve read and also from people I know that work in medicine.
We need to catch things and let our immune system fight them off. Personally I very rarely catch things off other people and I think that’s partly because my other half was a childminder for ten years and we constantly had children coming and going that had various bugs.

Strangely I don't often get anything except colds, typically 6 to 8 of them a year, and it's rubbish. Though at the moment I have some sort of chest infection (it's not COVID, I had a test yesterday and it was negative) and it's affecting my asthma something rotten, I can barely walk upstairs without heavy breathing. I generally prefer to avoid experiencing that sort of thing, really.

 

[bramling]

Maybe the way to deal with it is to abide by the law ?

The Tory mantra has always been “if you don’t like the time, don’t do the crime” (unless they are on the receiving end of it).

The sign in the shop has an easy solution. No mask, no custom, no survival. Sadly this may well be enough to tip some businesses over the edge.

 

[Cowley]

Strangely I don't often get anything except colds, typically 6 to 8 of them a year, and it's rubbish. Though at the moment I have some sort of chest infection (it's not COVID, I had a test yesterday and it was negative) and it's affecting my asthma something rotten, I can barely walk upstairs without heavy breathing. I generally prefer to avoid experiencing that sort of thing, really.

That sounds rough. I generally get around one cold a year and one year that we had where temperatures down here got down to -10 a few years ago I actually didn’t get one for about 14 months.

Edit - I’ve dragged this off topic somewhat!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Except for the number of deaths as a result of it. Far in excess of 5 year averages.

Half of the deaths were in care homes, remember.

That sounds rough. I generally get around one cold a year and one year that we had where temperatures down here got down to -10 a few years ago I actually didn’t get one for about 14 months.

Likewise, the last cold I had was probably about October. Before that I couldn't tell you.

 

[Richard Scott]

The sign in the shop has an easy solution. No mask, no custom, no survival. Sadly this may well be enough to tip some businesses over the edge.

If it comes in in Wales, which is likely then back to weekly trip to Tescos and that's it. Afraid my money will end up with the big PLC for everything and local newsagent and corner shop will miss out on some custom but that's how it is.

 

[45107]

I don't think that's what he said at all. What he said was that there should be no vigilanteism, and that your duty as a citizen if you see or suspect a crime being planned or committed is to call the Police, not to attempt to enforce the law yourself, and I completely agree with that.

(Though there are offences like that; most "no street drinking" zones only involve an offence being committed if the drinking continues having been told not to by a Police Officer)

If you are talking about vigilantism, I agree that there is no need for that.
If it is about shop staff/security dealing with it, then they are justified (In most cases)