Face coverings to become mandatory in shops in England (includes poll)

[al78]

Indeed it is. Everything we do has consequences- our cars kill people through pollution, our clothing kills people in their manufacture, etc etc.

Some of us try to make lifestyle decisions that reduce these externalised costs, such as walking and cycling instead of driving local journeys, or reducing consumption by not replacing things just because of fashion or the latest model has been released, even getting clothes from charity shops which increases the lifetime of the clothes and reduces waste.

 

[trebor79]

What exactly is the "clarification" the news is on about? You either wear a mask if you want to or you don't. Simple.
Sounds like the mask police are shouting the loudest so the Government will follow them.

Indeed. I'm not confused at all,I don't need any "clarity".

 

[MikeWM]

Some of us try to make lifestyle decisions that reduce these externalised costs, such as walking and cycling instead of driving local journeys, or reducing consumption by not replacing things just because of fashion or the latest model has been released, even getting clothes from charity shops which increases the lifetime of the clothes and reduces waste.

Which is good. I've never owned a car, partly because I'm aware of the massive impact they have on the environment and how bad the pollution they cause is for public health. But there shouldn't be a law that you *must* do any of those things.

 

[Mag_seven]

Indeed. I'm not confused at all,I don't need any "clarity".

Clarity for some folks means everything being made mandatory with fines for non compliance. That is not my idea of clarity.

 

[DB]

Which is good. I've never owned a car, partly because I'm aware of the massive impact they have on the environment and how bad the pollution they cause is for public health. But there shouldn't be a law that you *must* do any of those things.

Likewise - but due to the hostility from public transport providers and the masks rule I think I'm going to have to buy a car soon!

 

[DB]

Indeed. I'm not confused at all,I don't need any "clarity".

Quite. If you want to wear a mask, then wear one. If you don't want to wear one, then don't wear one. Not sure what is unclear about this, unless to the locktivists "clarity" means "force everyone to do what we want".

 

[Ian Cunningham]

I’m sure I’ve heard Sturgeon intimate that is what she is pursuing in Scotland, though not quite as directly as that. Goodness knows what Boris’s objective is. Being charitable perhaps it’s some vagueness like keeping R below 1.

I'm not sure elimination has ever been a stated goal - getting it right down as low as possible to reduce the risk of flareups and hopefully limiting the scale of them when they do inevitably happen seems to be the aim
People have a habit of putting words into politicians mouths: NS did state in a briefing at the end of June that "Suppressing the virus, driving it as far as we can towards total elimination, has to be our overriding priority" so not actually erradicating it completely but getting it suppressed to the point it, in all practical terms, is eliminated.

That seems to have worked so far. Whether this holds as we unlock remains to be seen (this week has a raft of changes so we'll know soon enough)

Like you I have no idea what the UK Government's goals are - the current briefing/counter-briefing on face coverings in shops in England is absolutely farcical

 

[MikeWM]

Even before the government 'make a decision', I see that the BFI Southbank has decided on mandatory masking when they reopen at the start of September:

https://whatson.bfi.org.uk/Online/default.asp

Face coverings required*

* If this is not possible for you for medical or other reasons, please contact us in advance so we can take additional safety measures

!!! In other words, if you can't wear a mask, we're going to treat you as if you're a piece of toxic waste!

That's one organisation that clearly doesn't want my business or my membership anymore. I'll take the several-hundred pounds I've spent there annually for many years now, and spend it on something else.

(Interestingly/alarmingly, I went back to the email they sent me only last Thursday, where they said 'face coverings encouraged'. What's changed over the weekend?)

 

[HSTEd]

Even before the government 'make a decision', I see that the BFI Southbank has decided on mandatory masking when they reopen at the start of September:

I wouldn't worry, they won't be open for long.

Cinemas are dead.
They are the passtime of the rich, the rich that have had several months indoors assembling ever more absurd home cinema installations.

 

[DB]

Even before the government 'make a decision', I see that the BFI Southbank has decided on mandatory masking when they reopen at the start of September:

https://whatson.bfi.org.uk/Online/default.asp


!!! In other words, if you can't wear a mask, we're going to treat you as if you're a piece of toxic waste!

That's one organisation that clearly doesn't want my business or my membership anymore. I'll take the several-hundred pounds I've spent there annually for many years now, and spend it on something else.

(Interestingly/alarmingly, I went back to the email they sent me only last Thursday, where they said 'face coverings encouraged'. What's changed over the weekend?)

On the one hand, the government and businesses are saying they want their customers to come back, but on the other hand some of them seem determined to put measures in place to make it as unpleasant and dispiriting and experience as possible. Will they then be surprised if numbers are way below what they are expecting?

 

[MikeWM]

On the one hand, the government and businesses are saying they want their customers to come back, but on the other hand some of them seem determined to put measures in place to make it as unpleasant and dispiriting and experience as possible. Will they then be surprised if numbers are way below what they are expecting?

Clearly in that case we'll need *more* 'safety' measures... (!)

It's the same argument as when you're selling a product and sales fall, you put the price up to try to compensate (and then lose further sales, etc. etc.) A death spiral

 

[BJames]

On the one hand, the government and businesses are saying they want their customers to come back, but on the other hand some of them seem determined to put measures in place to make it as unpleasant and dispiriting and experience as possible. Will they then be surprised if numbers are way below what they are expecting?

To be honest, I wouldn't be shocked if they actually are surprised. And they won't be able to work out what they've done wrong. The headlines will read "BFI Southbank struggling to attract custom under the pressures of COVID-19".

I'll wear a mask on public transport to get somewhere and I'll wear one if I have to to go shopping, but it is with reluctance. What I won't do is choose to go somewhere that requires me to wear a mask, and I can't imagine there's many people, even the advocates of mask wearing, who would want to choose to be in a situation for an extended period of time that forces them to wear one.

 

[MikeWM]

I wouldn't worry, they won't be open for long.

Cinemas are dead.
They are the passtime of the rich, the rich that have had several months indoors assembling ever more absurd home cinema installations.

I'll happily return to the cinema if it is something approximating to the experience that it used to be. Indeed, I've been to the cinema both of the last two weekends.

If it isn't enjoyable - and wearing a mask isn't, nor is trying to explain why you can't - then I'll stay home and use the money to buy a very nice indeed - if absurd - home cinema installation

 

[Andyh82]

Quite. If you want to wear a mask, then wear one. If you don't want to wear one, then don't wear one. Not sure what is unclear about this, unless to the locktivists "clarity" means "force everyone to do what we want".

According to the BBC, its Labour that are "seeking clarity"

The media always want something to be mandatory so they can ask the next question which is always "fines"

All the way though, whenever something new was introduced, they always asked about fines

 

[AM9]

... As with other "temporary" security/safety theatre, like airport security (temporary restrictions on liquids celebrate their 20th birthday next year!) when the motivation is political then necessity becomes open-ended.

Not quite right. The liquid restrictions in carry-on luggage were introduced in August 2006, which is quite a long way from 19 years ago.
More recently there have been scanners on the market that can discriminate between 'normal' bottle contents and likely hazardous materials, and somme airports have deployed them to speed the flow of passengers through security areas. Airports that haven't equipped themselves are still subject to most of the restrictions of the 2006 actions.

Another mixed message. Robert Buckland the Justice Secretary has just said on TV that he thinks that perhaps people should wear masks in shops. Can straightfoward advice ever come from this Government ? There seems to be nobody leading from the front and take responsibility for making decisions and, I'm sorry to say, the PM seems completely incapable of doing that just spouting the first thing that comes into his head without thinking things through first.

What we are witnessing is the dilemma of a populist government. Many of their pet voters are of the disrupter types, and trying to enforce anything with them is politically risky. Johnson can't even get his cabinet to obey its own rules!

 

[Yew]

My starting point is that most of the members of the current government are liars and hypocrites, and I can't work out which ones aren't, so I don't believe a word any of them says.

Instead I have examined the evidence available to me.

It is clear to me that my wearing a face mask in an environment such as a shop, in which it will be impossible to maintain even a 1m distance from others, will reduce the risk that I infect someone else should I myself be infected.

So I will always wear a face mask in such an environment, regardless of the law, until the circumstances change.

I recognise that the likelihood of being infected myself, not realising it, and then passing on the infection to someone else is low. But it's not zero.

I have not actually been to a shop since early March.

Making others more likely to wear a face mask will in turn make it more likely that I will go to a shop. However I have no plans to do so currently.

Making it "compulsory" to do so is something which should have been done weeks ago, at the same time as similar rules were introduced for public transport, and their current absence just adds to confusion caused in part by this government's erratic response to the current circumstances.

I presume we can see your paper in a scientific journal shortly?

 

[mmh]

I presume we can see your paper in a scientific journal shortly?

For someone so critical of the Government he uses the same language as them.

"I have examined the evidence available to me. It is clear to me..."

Text book stuff. I have examined the evidence, but am unwilling to share it with you. But be in no doubt, it is clear.

 

[talldave]

I wouldn't worry, they won't be open for long.

Cinemas are dead.
They are the passtime of the rich, the rich that have had several months indoors assembling ever more absurd home cinema installations.

Err really??? Better to spend money home cinema kit than pointless masks .

 

[Richard Scott]

I wouldn't worry, they won't be open for long.

Cinemas are dead.
They are the passtime of the rich, the rich that have had several months indoors assembling ever more absurd home cinema installations.

Really? The cinema local to me has a lot of youngsters going to it and it's not in a rich area.

 

[MP33]

I was watching the BBC lunchtime news.

The Prime Minister face covering in shops in England is to be reviewed over the next few days.

BBC We will all be wearing them in England.

No, wait until the Prime Minister gives his decision.

By under review and also the remarks from Michael Gove. They have seen the strength of Public Opinion and are looking at kicking it further into the long grass.

I thought that at the Press Conferences, the slide for the numbers on ventilators was getting to the point that the numbers were low enough to put up the peoples names.

 

[Huntergreed]

I thought that at the Press Conferences, the slide for the numbers on ventilators was getting to the point that the numbers were low enough to put up the peoples names.

This is likely correct, the vast vast majority of cases now are either very mild or asymptomatic.

 

[MikeWM]

This is likely correct, the vast vast majority of cases now are either very mild or asymptomatic.

Which was probably always the case, just that we're testing more. If we'd have been testing as much as we are now back in March who knows what kind of numbers we'd have seen?

The virus may have mutated into something less serious, which would increase that effect further, but quite hard to tell just based on numbers.

Clearly a sensible time to start wearing masks

 

[bramling]

If Sturgeon really does want that then she's on a hiding to nothing. Just like every other country in the world she's going to have to accept Covid as a viral background noise which is at best only controllable.

It becomes a more appealing policy when combined with visions of a wall from Berwick to the Solway, the sort of thing Sturgeon pre-2020 could only dream of!

 

[bramling]

To be honest, I wouldn't be shocked if they actually are surprised. And they won't be able to work out what they've done wrong. The headlines will read "BFI Southbank struggling to attract custom under the pressures of COVID-19".

I'll wear a mask on public transport to get somewhere and I'll wear one if I have to to go shopping, but it is with reluctance. What I won't do is choose to go somewhere that requires me to wear a mask, and I can't imagine there's many people, even the advocates of mask wearing, who would want to choose to be in a situation for an extended period of time that forces them to wear one.

The thing is the mask brigade are quite vocal, so some businesses may think they’re doing the popular thing by mandating them. However the fact many choose not to wear them tells a different story.

 

[45107]

The thing is the mask brigade are quite vocal, so some businesses may think they’re doing the popular thing by mandating them. However the fact many choose not to wear them tells a different story.

What businesses are mandating the use of masks.
To my knowledge, they are mandatory on public transport.
Barbers/hair dressers possibly, but they are in close human contact with the customer.
Any others ?

 

[westv]

Unfortunately the mask police drums are beating louder every day.

 

[scotrail158713]

Really? The cinema local to me has a lot of youngsters going to it and it's not in a rich area.

I’d agree. Most cinemas I see do a decent trade. Although two of them being Vue cinemas with all films priced at £4.99 probably helps.

 

[Ianno87]

What businesses are mandating the use of masks.
To my knowledge, they are mandatory on public transport.
Barbers/hair dressers possibly, but they are in close human contact with the customer.
Any others ?

Disney Store in Cambridge has been mandating them (for adults)

 

[Grecian 1998]

The easiest option would be to make masks mandatory with no exemptions whatsoever from 12:01 am-11:59am, then entirely voluntary from 12:01pm-11:59pm (as on the railway, 12 noon and 12 midnight can be ambiguous). Anyone who wants to shop with everyone masked can do so in the morning; everyone who doesn't want to wear a mask can do so in the afternoon. Granted it may inconvenience a few shift workers, but the other options inconvenience far more people. As with Sunday shopping, there can be announcements telling people they need to get to the till with 10 minutes to go.

AM - a mask. PM - post-mask. Simple.

The government also then get some useful data as to whether homemade masks worn by the general public (as opposed to surgical masks used by people who know how to use them properly) make shops safer, less safer or no different. Win win.

If that works we could have a 'masks off carriage' on each train as well, given 153s no longer run around on their own. For added safety the roof and windows can be removed to recreate the Victoria third class carriage feel. Might be a tad tricky on the Stourbridge shuttle though, and would mean you can't put items on tables on Pendolinos and West Coast Voyagers.

(The above was written somewhat tongue in cheek, although it wouldn't surprise me if it became government policy in a week's time).

 

[LAX54]

Was walking around Clacton today, there must have been all told about 10 at most wearing masks, of those at least 4 maybe 5, had their nose uncovered with them !