failed 92 on 1S25! (14/04/15)

[Muzer]

Yes — only 1, 2 and 15 can manage the highland. The lowland is a little shorter so it might fit on others like 3 and 4 but don't quote me.

 

[JonathanH]

They probably ran it directly from Milton K into Wembley Yard.

I would imagine that the reason for terminating at Milton K in the end had less to do with how late it was per se and more to do with there being no platform capacity available at Euston when it would have eventually got in.

They terminated it at Milton Keynes at 0852 because it was no longer a useful means of getting to London. Who exactly would have wanted to stay on? I don't think anyone would have taken the risk. I certainly didn't notice anyone arguing for the train to continue.

Given the expected arrival time of 0707, everyone was awake and could get to Euston from Milton Keynes on a 110mph train in 40 minutes. 92028 had failed three times and would have had to stay on the slow lines. There would have been a risk of another breakdown, especially if it didn't get a clear run, and it wasn't exactly quick running from Northampton to Milton Keynes taking over 30 minutes to make a 15 minute journey.

The "rumour" doing the rounds at Northampton was that 1M11 was diverted via Northampton from Rugby due to the late running, and the driver didn't sign the route but realised he was going that way when it was too late. The hold at Northampton was for a replacement route competant driver to work the train forward and then it was so late by the time that was sorted that it was terminated at MK

I don't buy that idea - the engine was defective. The sleeper presumably always goes via Northampton when it is as late as it was on Wednesday morning and almost all freight goes that way so a freight driver would know that route. Surely a driver reports an incorrect route setting as soon as they are aware and would know what the signals were telling them about the route. The train appears to have run to alongside the Kings Heath depot (where I woke up) before failing there having run through since the problems at Stafford. That is quite a long way from Rugby. Also, there were obvious signs of the engine being reset detectable by the air conditioning going on and off.

 

[CosherB]

Virgin could of maintained the 87s better but it was a case of no one wanted to use them including Anglia. At least they have been kept in use in Bulgaria instead of on the scrap heap like some. 86/6s still going strong on the Freightliners so there is no reason why 87s could not still be in use over here even on freight duties or Scotrail could of used them on the sleepers instead of 90s.

I think you knocked the nail on the head - "no one wanted to use them". Cotswold Rail, GBRf and even DRS dabbled with them but ultimately gave them up.

Scotrail has nothing to do with providing traction for the CS - National Express and First sub-contracted it to EWS/DBS.

 

[6Gman]

Did the 90s not fail?

Constantly in their early days!

 

[87031]

I think you knocked the nail on the head - "no one wanted to use them". Cotswold Rail, GBRf and even DRS dabbled with them but ultimately gave them up.

Scotrail has nothing to do with providing traction for the CS - National Express and First sub-contracted it to EWS/DBS.

Well i guess EWS or DBS could of taken some then

 

[CosherB]

Well i guess EWS or DBS could of taken some then

I refer the honourable member to the answer I gave a few moments ago (#89)!

 

[sprinterguy]

Yes — only 1, 2 and 15 can manage the highland. The lowland is a little shorter so it might fit on others like 3 and 4 but don't quote me.

If we're talking train lengths, the "highland" and "lowland" sleepers are identical lengths out of (and into) Euston.

 

[87031]

I refer the honourable member to the answer I gave a few moments ago (#89)!

hashtag 89???

 

[richa2002]

87002 at Berkhamsted tonight on 1S25:


And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvLNp25AUt8

 

[cjmillsnun]

One query that popped to mind was how many of the crew are signed off on the 87 who also sign the WCML?

They can be conducted if necessary

 

[87031]

87002 at Berkhamsted tonight on 1S25:


And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvLNp25AUt8

great shot there 2 crew on board....she looks at home again!

 

[cjmillsnun]

Constantly in their early days!

Indeed, hence their nickname. Skoda. At the time Skoda cars were not rebadged VWs but cars like this.

 

[CosherB]

hashtag 89???

Post 89 on this thread, where I stated that DBS have lots of Class 90s in storage at Crewe with no work for them (not to mention their 92s also heading out east) ...... so why on earth would they have had the slightest interest in the 87s?

 

[87031]

Cos there better

 

[Muzer]

If we're talking train lengths, the "highland" and "lowland" sleepers are identical lengths out of (and into) Euston.

...yes, you're completely right. Why on earth did I think the lowland was shorter? Chalk it down to tiredness on my part.

 

[IanXC]

90019 did the honours on the southbound Highland today...

 

[hibtastic]

What are the chances of Class 88's appearing on the sleeper when they arrive?

 

[CosherB]

What are the chances of Class 88's appearing on the sleeper when they arrive?

Zero .... as GBRf are contracted to provide traction to Serco and, as far as I'm aware, only DRS are looking at 88s.

 

[IrishDave]

I don't buy that idea - the engine was defective. The sleeper presumably always goes via Northampton when it is as late as it was on Wednesday morning and almost all freight goes that way so a freight driver would know that route. Surely a driver reports an incorrect route setting as soon as they are aware and would know what the signals were telling them about the route. The train appears to have run to alongside the Kings Heath depot (where I woke up) before failing there having run through since the problems at Stafford. That is quite a long way from Rugby. Also, there were obvious signs of the engine being reset detectable by the air conditioning going on and off.

I agree that it seems unlikely that the driver wouldn't sign via Northampton. However, Virgin drivers have a standing instruction not to query the route if the signaller routes them via Northampton vice Weedon, presumably so as to avoid extra delays over and above the diversion via Northampton. It is generally presumed that the signaller knows what they're doing! I would expect a similar instruction would apply to the sleepers, so via Northampton isn't necessarily an "incorrect" route.

 

[hibtastic]

Zero .... as GBRf are contracted to provide traction to Serco and, as far as I'm aware, only DRS are looking at 88s.

My bad, I thought it was DRS providing the traction for the CS. My mistake

 

[Domh245]

On that thought, where the 90s have substituted for 92s recently, has it been a single DBS driver in the cab, or has it been a DBS driver driving being conducted by a GBRf driver? If it was just the DBS driver, any idea how it will work when/if their route knowledge officially lapses. I ask this because I suspect that DBS won't bother retaining route knowledge into Euston and similar locations because they simply don't operate any trains that way.

 

[captainbigun]

All GB crews, DBS just provide the loco.

 

[Domh245]

How many GBRF drivers are trained on 90s then? I didn't know that GBRF operated 90s, unless the sleeper drivers were TUPEd over from DBS to GBRF, but that seems very unlikely!

 

[captainbigun]

Just because GB don't normally run 90s it doesn't mean they don't have drivers who sign them.

 

[Freightmaster]

How many GBRF drivers are trained on 90s then? I didn't know that GBRF operated 90s, unless the sleeper drivers were TUPEd over from DBS to GBRF, but that seems very unlikely!

Not TUPE as such, as that is a TOC-TOC process, but I understand
that several Millerhill DB drivers have transfered to GB to service
the sleeper contract.

This is why 90s are still being used on most sleepers to/from Edinburgh;
the ex-DB drivers are having to be trained up on 92s, which will take
until approximately mid June to complete.

MARK

 

[Jamesb1974]

How many GBRF drivers are trained on 90s then? I didn't know that GBRF operated 90s, unless the sleeper drivers were TUPEd over from DBS to GBRF, but that seems very unlikely!

Get with the program son. DBS drivers WERE TUPEd to Gbrf for the sleepers.

Not TUPE as such, as that is a TOC-TOC process

TUPE is exactly what it is.

 

[cjmillsnun]

TUPE is exactly what it is.

Agreed. Many don't know what TUPE actually is and who it affects.

http://www.acas.org.uk/TUPE

 

[CosherB]

it's bad enough disagreeing about trains ...... now it's employment law! lol :roll:

 

[fishquinn]

I popped out to Rugby to see 87002 on the sleeper. Here are a few pictures.

 

[kermit]

So, given the ease with which the 87 appears to have handled the unexpected duty, is there any scope to hire some back from the Bulgarians?

Together with the "new" Class 73s, that would be quite a thing!