failure by multiple TOCs to carry passengers with itineraries.

[gsnedders]

I'm not sure what a retailer can do? Yes, the customer is entitled to a full refund from the retailer because of the cancellation, but the customer doesn't want a refund, they want to travel. All a retailer can realistically do is offer an assurance that the ticket remains valid on the next available appropriate services.

But the customer has been inconvenienced, mistreated and/or misadvised by train companies and it is the train companies who should be looking after the customer.

In the aviation case, it is up to the retailer to get in contact with the passenger and allow them to rebook/cancel their itinerary, and AFAIK the majority of flight bookings are not made directly. I rarely hear about any screw up of this magnitude in aviation, which typically has further out booking windows and as a result schedule changes are comparatively common, and that makes me think it's just a lack of preparedness for schedule changes on the railway's part (presumably on an assumption that the timetables are absolutely final 90 days in advance).

My experience with flight cancellations is getting trivially rebooked onto any reasonable itinerary for no cost. At what point did the LNER train get made into a STP and start from Edinburgh? At what point did the ScotRail timetable get amended so that there was no train running on the morning of the 2nd in time to make the LNER train (from either Glasgow or Edinburgh, depending on ordering of the changes!)? Was this before or after she picked up the tickets?

Assuming it was prior to her picking up the tickets, in an aviation setting, once the first of those happened (making the booked itinerary cancelled), I would expect to be able to rebook (with reservations!) on any reasonable alternative. What would it take for advance-notice cancellations being able to be rebooked onto reservations on any reasonable alternative for no cost? Certainly if there's a cancellation weeks in advance it's rather silly having to turn up to the station and hope you get a seat at a peak leisure travel time of year when surely you could be rebooked onto another, actually running train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Assuming it was prior to her picking up the tickets, in an aviation setting, once the first of those happened (making the booked itinerary cancelled), I would expect to be able to rebook (with reservations!) on any reasonable alternative. What would it take for advance-notice cancellations being able to be rebooked onto reservations on any reasonable alternative for no cost? Certainly if there's a cancellation weeks in advance it's rather silly having to turn up to the station and hope you get a seat at a peak leisure travel time of year when surely you could be rebooked onto another, actually running train?

Well, with easyjet.com, if a flight is flagged as cancelled (regardless of when this occurs, and including if you're already sat in the departure lounge which saves on queueing to rebook) you get notified and gain the ability to rebook it and any corresponding return half for free, or to choose a refund again of both halves if you wish (or just one if you prefer). At one point it'd allow you to rebook any flights on that booking, which as I used to commute weekly by air and put 3 months' worth of flights on one booking was rather useful, but I think they've fixed that now.

That said, you don't get the option to rebook onto another airline in that way, and while that is technically a right you have to fight for it. But at least were that in place the OP's relative could have rebooked onto today's train and saved themselves the early start.

In some ways the multiple retail channels for rail complicate things. Low cost airlines can have it a lot slicker because you only really book with them, other than those going via corporate agents.

The existence of paper tickets I suppose complicates it a bit. If everything was e-ticketed it'd be much easier. Fortunately things do seem to be headed that way, despite many naysayers claiming it wasn't possible.

 

[43094]

All I'm willing to say on here about this one is:

. On a 'normal' weekday, 1E06 would start from Glasgow Central at 0648.

. 2nd Jan is traditionally not a 'normal' day for this particular service - however until STP amendments are put into place, it will show in retail systems as a journey opportunity at the 'normal' times, and from the normal locations.

. This also applies to other services affected by engineering works / commercially driven alterations etc

. There was indeed a bus intended to run Glasgow Central - Motherwell - Edinburgh. This bus wouldn't have been visible until the STP amendments were put into place, as in itself it's part of the STP amendments for that day.

. Once they had been, if the bus had uploaded properly (I cannot check this at this moment), it should have shown in TRUST as part of a journey opportunity, had the VWC staff checked - but only *if* it had uploaded properly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

. Once they had been, if the bus had uploaded properly (I cannot check this at this moment), it should have shown in TRUST as part of a journey opportunity, had the VWC staff checked - but only *if* it had uploaded properly.

The bus is NOT in RTT (or indeed any other timetable enquiry system), which would suggest it indeed wasn't uploaded properly. Hence the problem.

The modified train is, however:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y70222/2019/01/02

 

[43094]

In that case, there's all the ingredients to trap someone in limbo...

 

[sheff1]

My opinion on this is (likely the same as yours) if they are always starting later on 2nd Jan why would they EVER be in the timetable to start with ?

That is, indeed, my view.

Back in the "inefficient" past the paper timetables - full volume and route - quite clearly showed which trains did not operate on Bank Holidays by the simple use of a 'BHX' column note. In Scotland there was even another annotation which indicated trains which did not operate on Glasgow Area-specific holiday dates. Now that things are done electronically, flagging such trains so that they never appear in journey planners for the relevant dates should be very straightforward indeed - DB have been doing that with their journey planner for years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is, indeed, my view.

Back in the "inefficient" past the paper timetables - full volume and route - quite clearly showed which trains did not operate on Bank Holidays by the simple use of a 'BHX' column note. In Scotland there was even another annotation which indicated trains which did not operate on Glasgow Area-specific holiday dates. Now that things are done electronically, flagging such trains so that they never appear in journey planners for the relevant dates should be very straightforward indeed - DB have been doing that with their journey planner for years.

The confusion here is that the LNER train operates in both Scotland (where it is a BH) and England (where it isn't). The ScotRail one was silly, though.

 

[sheff1]

But at least were that in place the OP's relative could have rebooked onto today's train and saved themselves the early start.

She would also have been able to book a journey with Scotrail from Glasgow to Edinburgh connecting into a suitable LNER connection forward, allowing her to get home yesterday as she wanted.

 

[sheff1]

The confusion here is that the LNER train operates in both Scotland (where it is a BH) and England (where it isn't). The ScotRail one was silly, though.

I got the impression from earlier posts that the LNER change was a very late one - certainly nothing was mentioned in their Christmas/New Year Travel publicity. There was never going to be a Scotrail train from Ayr at 0513 yesterday (no doubt there will not be one next January 2nd either) and if that had been excluded from journey planners it would not have been possible to book a ticket from Ayr connecting into the 0648 LNER train whether it was running or not.

 

[yorkie]

... if that had been excluded from journey planners it would not have been possible to book a ticket from Ayr connecting into the 0648 LNER train whether it was running or not.

Yes if Scotrail had got their act together to comply with the 12 week window, a customer from Ayr would not have been offered this itinerary. However a customer from Glasgow Central would still have done.

But this is a common problem, on multiple train companies, and at all times of year!

 

[Haywain]

I terms of travel on the day it seems that the Virgin Trains staff at Glasgow Central were particularly useless, and should have been capable of advising on how to get to Edinburgh. Had that been done, I have no doubt at all that the LNER staff at Edinburgh would have arranged for onward travel to Peterborough on a later service.

 

[Killingworth]

I terms of travel on the day it seems that the Virgin Trains staff at Glasgow Central were particularly useless, and should have been capable of advising on how to get to Edinburgh. Had that been done, I have no doubt at all that the LNER staff at Edinburgh would have arranged for onward travel to Peterborough on a later service.

Sadly, if that had been done correctly the intending passenger would still have been annoyed, but reassured and grateful for the assistance given at this period of festivity and goodwill to all. She might have all but forgotten the difficulty she'd had getting from Ayr by the time she got home.

I sense that readers on this forum, mostly experienced rail travellers, would not have accepted the story she was given and marched onto the first train to Edinburgh and stood their ground!

Those of us who have ever had anything to do with providing customer service will be shuddering at the example seen here. "Profiting from mistakes" was a training session we regularly ran. There was ample scope to do that here. Belatedly we must all hope the experience can be used to encourage that learning.

I can hear the response to that from all around. So many businesses today have been fragmented. The railways aren't alone and nationalisation would make little difference. Departments live in their own bubbles. "Not my area to resolve" "I've no authority to do that" "Even my manager couldn't do that" "I don't see a problem" "That's the system and I can't do anything about it" "The computer can't change that" and a host of other brick wall responses. It happens when dealing with utilities, insurers, banks and almost everywhere across modern life.

Another training session we used to run was based around "If you were our customer what would drive you up the wall?" So how do we resolve that, firstly by avoiding similar problems in future, but dealing with any after they have happened? There's where the profit comes. Early intervention will save a lot of difficulty and costs later.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Sadly, if that had been done correctly the intending passenger would still have been annoyed, but reassured and grateful for the assistance given at this period of festivity and goodwill to all. She might have all but forgotten the difficulty she'd had getting from Ayr by the time she got home.

I sense that readers on this forum, mostly experienced rail travellers, would not have accepted the story she was given and marched onto the first train to Edinburgh and stood their ground!

Those of us who have ever had anything to do with providing customer service will be shuddering at the example seen here. "Profiting from mistakes" was a training session we regularly ran. There was ample scope to do that here. Belatedly we must all hope the experience can be used to encourage that learning.

I can hear the response to that from all around. So many businesses today have been fragmented. The railways aren't alone and nationalisation would make little difference. Departments live in their own bubbles. "Not my area to resolve" "I've no authority to do that" "Even my manager couldn't do that" "I don't see a problem" "That's the system and I can't do anything about it" "The computer can't change that" and a host of other brick wall responses. It happens when dealing with utilities, insurers, banks and almost everywhere across modern life.

Another training session we used to run was based around "If you were our customer what would drive you up the wall?" So how do we resolve that, firstly by avoiding similar problems in future, but dealing with any after they have happened? There's where the profit comes. Early intervention will save a lot of difficulty and costs later.

Hear, hear. It seems that the unique situation of the railways means that, despite Virgin saying that good customer service is one of their underpinning values, the passenger frequently ends up receiving something far removed from that vision!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I sense that readers on this forum, mostly experienced rail travellers, would not have accepted the story she was given and marched onto the first train to Edinburgh and stood their ground!

Most probably, particularly as Scottish law makes prosecutions difficult so the worst you'd get is being forced to buy an Anytime Single to Edinburgh and pursue a refund later.

 

[robbeech]

I think if she’s even been offered buying an anytime single to edinburgh and had confirmation from LNER she could travel on a later service she would have done that and likely not even bothered perusing a refund / compensation. But being an infrequent Rail user and the combination of hearing many horror stories in the news about people being charged, sometimes wrongly, and being told she would need to buy a whole new ticket (at over £200 to remain in first class) put her off the risk.