False Address & Name

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by dececco, 9 Jan 2015.

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  1. dececco

    dececco New Member

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    Hi, this is my first post and I would like some advice from those in the know.

    Firstly, I realise that what I did was completely wrong and immoral but would like some guidance on how to rectify the situation. I was stopped at Manchester Piccadilly last week with an out of date ticket by a Northern Rail RPI. Upon asking for my details I panicked and gave incorrect details. I stated a very old friends name and DOB but a wrong address. Obviously I didn't know the postcode and upon the RPI verifying this, he asked me again for my correct details. I work for a law firm and was scared about the prospect of a criminal record and the effects this could have on my job, so I changed the address to my old address but again the postcode wasn't correct as I had genuinely forgotten that one of the numbers was wrong.

    However, the RPI checked this down the phone along with the false name I had given and said that I was free to go and that a letter would be sent to the address. I must add that the old ticket I had was confiscated and I am not sure whether that can be used to track me through the numbers printed on it. I realise that it probably would be hard to track me down, but I don't want any one else to be implicated in this - i.e. the new homeowner at my old address or the friends name i gave in. What I would like to know is who would I contact in order to come clean? Moreover, I realise now from reading these forums, that giving false details is a criminal offence; thus if I get in contact with the TOC and state that I gave false details, will it automatically be dealt with in court or could an out of court settlement be negotiated. I realise that upon declaring false details it probably wouldn't be in their interest to negotiate but would just like some thoughts?
     
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  3. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    If you work for a law firm then bite the bullet and speak to one of your lawyers.
     
  4. Murph

    Murph Member

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    You've committed a ยง5(3) offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 with the false details and, from the sound of what you describe, it would be a very easy prosecution. Your friend and the residents at the old address are not at any real risk, possibly just some minor inconvenience, as they won't match your description.

    If you leave it alone, they may or may not eventually trace you. Don't expect much sympathy from them, if you risk that. They will probably have you on CCTV, if they figure out that you gave false details before it gets lost. If you paid for the ticket taken as evidence by card, that may be a possible way of tracing you. With both the old address and the friend's name connecting to you and potentially revealed by some detective work, there's a chance of discovery there as well.

    If you're going to come clean, sooner is probably better than later, but you may wish to consider engaging a solicitor (maybe someone friendly but knowledgeable in your office), given that you're into moderately serious criminal territory. Coming clean is certainly the right thing to do, but it will certainly have a painful price tag attached, and no guarantee of avoiding prosecution. If they do go to prosecution, coming clean quickly may help the court see you as making a stupid mistake with a terrible lapse of judgement, instead of being an evil criminal who deserves the max penalty.
     
  5. Class377

    Class377 Member

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    They may not be able to trace your real address now, but they have CCTV (and I assume a list of names/faces of people who have given fake details and haven't been tracked) so there's a very real chance of staff picking you up next time you travel.
     
  6. Solent&Wessex

    Solent&Wessex Established Member

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    I am aware of a few cases where people have been traced after the event, when it has been discovered they have provided false details. There are all sorts of ways this can be done, and a request for information to any relevant bodies involved, made under the Data Protection Act 1998-Section 29 (3) will normally solicit the required information.
     
  7. Chris999999

    Chris999999 Member

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    You seem to have provided some information useful to the TOC in your post, particularly if the RPI who caught you reads this forum.

    Don't be too sure they won't track you down.
     
  8. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    So you committed an offence which would probably have been sorted by you being offered to pay a non recordable 'admin fee' but decided it was better to turn it into a recordable section 5 offence, good move!

    I do wonder if all these 'panicky' people would do the same to a Police Officer, its the same offence after all!
    How did you pay for the out of date ticket? If by card then it will be easy for them to trace you, if not then you are okay on that front.

    This will go through the normal process of Court etc building up the fine to quite a high amount,and on non payment the details could then be passed to a debt recovery company who will add their fees etc, they will go to the addresses you have given and ask the current occupiers who they think could be using their details fraudulently, if they manage to put 2 and 2 together and realise its you, what would your employer think if some very big people turn up 'for a chat' with you after you have been found guilty of travelling fraudulently and giving false details, or as some of us call it being a fraudster and a liar?

    Anyway you have 2 choices-
    1/ contact Northern, give them your correct details and hope they are feeling lenient.
    2/ keep your big gob shut and hope they dont find you, I dont think there is any time limit so you will be 'panicking' they dont find you for a very long time, and if they do find you then you can bet your bottom dollar they will throw every book in the library at you.

    You pays your money (or not in your case) and takes your choice.
    Still its only a train ticket isnt it, its not like its a serious crime! ;)
     
  9. island

    island Established Member

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    There's a time limit of 6 months from the commission of a summary offence for information to be laid before the magistrates to commence a prosecution.

    Whether the OP in this case has committed an indictable offence, such as fraud, is another matter.
     
  10. arabianights

    arabianights Member

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    OP, don't post anything else online and if the facts given in your post are true in the sense of it being Manchester Piccadilly last week, and you giving a genuine previous address and a genuine "very old" (by which I assume that they were one back at your school or something, but now couldn't care less about you but certainly would not want to be dragged into criminal offences... i.e. they are gonna grass you up boy) friend's address, congratulations on hugely compounding your "error" and making it extremely unlikely, verging on the impossible, that you are going to get away with it - if Northern really care.

    I also want to congratulate you on the following:


    But please do let us know what happens!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 9 Jan 2015
  11. Fare-Cop

    Fare-Cop Member

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    Sorry, but I think it has to be said; a 'law firm' of any kind whose employees have to turn to an internet forum to discover that giving false personal details can result in criminal action wouldn't inspire me with any great confidence!
     
  12. fairysdad

    fairysdad Member

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    Just because somebody works for a law firm doesn't mean that they will actually know about legal things - my Mum once worked for a law firm, as a cleaner. So she had no day-to-day interaction with the legal bods there as she just showed up at 5.30pm and did her stuff and went home again.

    That said, I'd guess that the idea of giving false personal details resulting in criminal action isn't necessarily a secret and most people should have some idea of that happening!
     
  13. Abpj17

    Abpj17 Member

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  14. Bodiddly

    Bodiddly Member

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    These things tend to grow arms and legs. If you have the cahunas to give wrong information in the first place, you should know there are consequences to doing so. Personally, I would be very worried as this could result in you losing your job as well as picking up a fine/conviction.
    If I were in your shoes I would go to Northern head office and ask to speak directly with someone who can look upon it sympathetically. You never know, you might get to speak to someone who could really help you.
    I think you're guilty of being a bit naive to be honest.
     
  15. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    It is certainly not uncommon for police officers to be given incorrect details.

    I'm not condoning his actions but if I were him I'd go for option 2!
     
  16. sarahj

    sarahj Established Member

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    Of course if you go for option 2, you will have to avoid any railway service within your area, as you will be remembered as the person who gave a false name and address, and not only that, did it so badly that you had to have a couple of goes.

    Anyway, enjoy looking over your shoulder. And all for a few quid your career could be going down the pan.
     
  17. DownSouth

    DownSouth Established Member

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    Sounds like a decent form of self-punishment, it even comes complete with further consequences if it is not properly served!
     
  18. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    I suspect the reality is that many people give incorrect details, some will probably have a false name and address memorised for such occasions.
     
  19. sarahj

    sarahj Established Member

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    The RPI's round here call up and double check.
     
  20. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    When he said false I suspect he merely meant "not theirs" so it may well pass the check.
     
  21. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Which sort of calls into question how 'panicked/scared' they are when they can reel off a false name and linked address at will?

    This is not aimed at the OP.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2015
  22. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    We were talking about those with a name and address memorised. These are clearly not the same people as though scared into reeling off another linked name and address - I suspect they make it as unlinked as possible!
     
  23. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    I have edited my post to make it a bit clearer.
     
  24. arabianights

    arabianights Member

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    So would I, and I disagree he would have to be looking over his shoulder for ever - 18 months would do it in all probability.

    In fact I would avoid all local train travel for 18 months.

    In a way, I think the "nervousness" he would (should?) feel for that period of time, plus the inconvenience of commuting by some other means, would be adequate "punishment".

    Also - for goodness, if you are stopped about this OP then SAY NOTHING WITHOUT LEGAL ADVICE. Don't try and talk your way out of it and don't admit it either.
     
  25. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Thats what I like about this forum, the way you all bend over backwards to protect those trying to defraud the railways and then you go on another thread and moan about how expensive train travel is, well it might come as a bit of a shock but some poor sod has got to pay for it and if it isnt the fraudster (you are so quick to protect) then its going to be the honest traveller through higher fares isnt it! :roll:

    i thought this part was to help those who were badly treated by the nasty, rude, aggressive* RPI!

    * I think thats all of them. ;)
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2015
  26. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    You forgot intimidating ;)
     
  27. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Ah b*gger, I knew I had missed one! :lol:
     
  28. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Not even 18 days I would think? Revenue staff must deal with hordes of people and they can't possibly remember them all:cry:
     
  29. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    You would be surprised.;)
    They get to remember faces very well indeed, I am waiting for them to start using these shoulder cameras, that would save a lot of work.

    I was on a Pompy to Waterloo via Eastleigh 12 coach train which failed at Eastleigh, we were all bundled onto a 5 coach train and it was a bit cosy (it was impossible to move) and the RPI I was with saw somebody who he had previously had problems with several months ago, and asked for his ticket (and only his), surprise surprise he didnt have one, cue lots of paperwork and one unhappy wannabe faredodger. :lol:
     
    Last edited: 13 Jan 2015
  30. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    I'm surprised they haven't already got body cameras
     
  31. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Many RPIs now do and I'm sure they all will eventually.
     
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