Fantasy/hypothetical - What would a modern day Pacer look like?

[py_megapixel]

If the railways ended up again in the same situation as when the Pacers were ordered, i.e...

• An extremely unreliable/outdated fleet
• Not enough capacity or funding to build 'proper' replacements in the required timeframe
• ... resulting in a need for a large quantity of cheap stop-gaps built from simple variations on widely available components to operate regional stoppers and rural branches

what would you order?

Would you combine converted bus bodywork with rail wheelsets again?
Bring the existing Pacers up to modern standards, 144evo style?
Something else entirely?

This is entirely hypothetical fantasy-land, so feel free to bring out the crayons!

 

[tetudo boy]

Maybe a pacer using an Alexander Dennis Enviro200 MMC using batteries?

 

[johnnychips]

Handcar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(The link shows a person-powered rail handcar)

 

[py_megapixel]

Handcar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(The link shows a person-powered rail handcar)

Replacing a fleet of conventional rolling stock with a few thousand of those would be excellent for social distancing!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If the railways ended up again in the same situation as when the Pacers were ordered, i.e...

• An extremely unreliable/outdated fleet
• Not enough capacity or funding to build 'proper' replacements in the required timeframe
• ... resulting in a need for a large quantity of cheap stop-gaps built from simple variations on widely available components to operate regional stoppers and rural branches

what would you order?

Would you mount converted bus bodywork on rail bogies again?
Bring the existing Pacers up to modern standards, 144evo style?
Something else entirely?

This is entirely hypothetical fantasy-land, so feel free to bring out the crayons!

Bogies? If only...

To be honest, that would be the major change I'd make compared to the 1980s Pacers- avoiding the false economy of using a rigid four-wheel chassis. After all pretty much all modern freight wagons have bogies.

 

[py_megapixel]

Bogies? If only...

Corrected (I think)...

 

[Energy]

The class 230.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Something that looked very much like a slightly bigger, diesel (or bionic duckweed) powered high floor tram. Probably looking very much like a high floor (level boarding to standard platform height) version of the Sheffield tram-train.

Or I suppose a UK Stadler GTW (an older and cheaper[1] version of the FLIRT, which I think is now sold as the WINK). If you've ever been on one of the Swiss ones, e.g. those operated by "Thurbo", they have a very Pacer-like feel about them - very basic interiors with 3+2 seating, for example.

(GTW is Gelenktriebwagen - articulated multiple unit - before the silly names started!)

[1] And simpler - for example, the power module is basically a mini-loco, with the power bogie underneath it; unlike the FLIRT it isn't distributed power.

Edit: here's said interior, it does look very bus-like...

The class 230.

Because of the varied seating layout and the mid-saloon bog, the WMT 230s do very much feel like a Stadler GTW or basic FLIRT on the cheap, FWIW.

Bogies? If only...

To be honest, that would be the major change I'd make compared to the 1980s Pacers- avoiding the false economy of using a rigid four-wheel chassis. After all pretty much all modern freight wagons have bogies.

This:

AKN DMU, Hamburg, from Wikimedia Commons

...is basically a bogied Pacer.

 

[johnnychips]

The Sheffield tram-train (Class 399) is a really nice vehicle with bus seats and big windows like the Pacers. However, they are electric with excellent acceleration. I would imagine the OP would want to replace 150 diesels or similar, and I think a 399 with a Diesel engine would be dreadful.

 

[YorksLad12]

Something that looked very much like a slightly bigger, diesel (or bionic duckweed) powered high floor tram. Probably looking very much like a high floor (level boarding to standard platform height) version of the Sheffield tram-train.

Or I suppose a UK Stadler GTW (an older and cheaper[1] version of the FLIRT, which I think is now sold as the WINK). If you've ever been on one of the Swiss ones, e.g. those operated by "Thurbo", they have a very Pacer-like feel about them - very basic interiors with 3+2 seating, for example.

(GTW is Gelenktriebwagen - articulated multiple unit - before the silly names started!)

[1] And simpler - for example, the power module is basically a mini-loco, with the power bogie underneath it; unlike the FLIRT it isn't distributed power.

Edit: here's said interior, it does look very bus-like...

That looks nice, but it's 3+2 seating in bays (my two pet hates); and in the UK the seat backs would be taller, which is a shame as the low seat backs and larger windows make it look very bright and spacious. Like the original Pacers were.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That looks nice, but it's 3+2 seating in bays (my two pet hates); and in the UK the seat backs would be taller, which is a shame as the low seat backs and larger windows make it look very bright and spacious. Like the original Pacers were.

Switzerland basically doesn't do airline seating - almost all their stock is facing, only a very small number of EW IV and EuroCity coaches have airline seats. German GTWs tend to have airline seats. Those are the only 3+2 ones I've seen except exceptionally wide units for Scandinavia and Russia.

 

[YorksLad12]

Switzerland basically doesn't do airline seating - almost all their stock is facing, only a very small number of EW IV and EuroCity coaches have airline seats. German GTWs tend to have airline seats. Those are the only 3+2 ones I've seen except exceptionally wide units for Scandinavia and Russia.

The seats line up with the windows too... a definite plus in my book. Let's get them in and offload the 150s

 

[Non Multi]

The 'Revolution' Very Light Rail (VLR) train is what's currently being developed as a low cost train (£650k). Not sure if it has bogies, so it may not be a traditional 4 wheel railbus like the Pacer classes.

Revolution VLR

A Member of Eversholt UK Rails Group

eversholtrail.co.uk

Revolution VLR is coming soon

We are doing some maintenance on our site. Please come back later.

revolutionvlr.com

 

[Bletchleyite]

So an updated Parry People Mover minus the rubber band, effectively? Must be serious if Eversholt are on board. I can see this showing up on the Stourbridge Shuttle at some point given the company's location

 

[Energy]

The 'Revolution' Very Light Rail (VLR) train is what's currently being developed as a low cost train (£650k). Not sure if it has bogies, so it may not be a traditional 4 wheel railbus like the Pacer classes.

Revolution VLR

A Member of Eversholt UK Rails Group

eversholtrail.co.uk

Revolution VLR is coming soon

We are doing some maintenance on our site. Please come back later.

revolutionvlr.com

I don't really understand this, it looks to be a very light rail train which runs on normal tracks. Doesn't make sense in a lot of places, currently I can think of only the Stourbridge shuttle, could work at GWR and the like buts its just too small.

 

[py_megapixel]

I don't really understand this, it looks to be a very light rail train which runs on normal tracks. Doesn't make sense in a lot of places, currently I can think of only the Stourbridge shuttle, could work at GWR and the like buts its just too small.

Yes... I'd love to see one of those manage the typical loadings on the St Ives line in mid summer!

The Stourbridge shuttle already seems to have a good solution anyway - I haven't heard of any major problems with the PPM vehicles

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes... I'd love to see one of those manage the typical loadings on the St Ives line in mid summer!

The Stourbridge shuttle already seems to have a good solution anyway - I haven't heard of any major problems with the PPM vehicles

They are relatively lightweight, though, so I don't think we can expect to get 40+ years out of them, so thinking "what next" is no bad idea. I don't think "what next" for that line should involve diesel, though.

TBH, converting to some sort of airport style automated people mover (with a guard, because people in the UK are not well-behaved enough not to have any staff there) is probably the way to go.

New thread to continue down those lines: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-next-for-the-stourbridge-shuttle.212953/

 

[MarkyT]

Replacing a fleet of conventional rolling stock with a few thousand of those would be excellent for social distancing!

and good ventilation!

So an updated Parry People Mover minus the rubber band, effectively? Must be serious if Eversholt are on board. I can see this showing up on the Stourbridge Shuttle at some point given the company's location

I've seen but never travelled on the shuttle. Does it ever get rammed to the extent of leaving passengers behind? Clearly only a comparatively short wait for the vehicle to go and come back again, but the distance is so short it would probably also be just as quick to exit the station and walk into town surely. This is a generic problem with very small trains on short shuttles.

Yes... I'd love to see one of those manage the typical loadings on the St Ives line in mid summer!

Well, the operator could always order a multi-car version of the same train concept, sufficient to cope with the demand. After all, the key selling point is supposed to be the low weight and cost per seat not the size of the train itself. Also, additional passing loops might be added to increase frequency.

 

[edwin_m]

I don't really understand this, it looks to be a very light rail train which runs on normal tracks. Doesn't make sense in a lot of places, currently I can think of only the Stourbridge shuttle, could work at GWR and the like buts its just too small.

Unlike the tram-train or the Parry People Mover, I believe they intend it to share tracks with "normal" trains without infrastructure changes. I'm not sure whether that's by building to the current crashworthiness standards (which might make it a lot heavier than otherwise) or by securing some kind of derogation.

 

[Irascible]

I don't really understand this, it looks to be a very light rail train which runs on normal tracks. Doesn't make sense in a lot of places, currently I can think of only the Stourbridge shuttle, could work at GWR and the like buts its just too small.

From what I can make out - it came up in another thread - it is literally a rail bus with bus power. I think the idea was that because it's so light ( 17t? ) any infrastructure can also be light ( proper light railways ) and it's partly aimed at reopening schemes, but it's not from what I can make out built of a standard that can mix with full heavy rail so it's basically a large tram. If it *is* built strong enough to co-exist with heavy rail then actually that's a rather nice development, although it might be a nicer development if they had gangways...

 

[Fokx]

I’d imagine the use of Urban 90 seating if this ever where a thing, perhaps using a body from a struggling manufacturer such as MCV or Optare, perhaps based on the original MCV Evolution or Optare Metrocity?

The large hanover displays would actually be a nice touch!

 

[Eskimo]

I could imagine a crowdfunded concept train made with containers, and it would probably be a internet classic.

Imagine the scenes when a rake of Hamburg Suds arrive, each one having been decorated by Art School grads, primary school kids and 'TV experts', and it wins all the awards cos someone at VICE calls it an environmental revolution.

Plus MP's love a job creation wave Tidal Wave Tsunami.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I could imagine a crowdfunded concept train made with containers, and it would probably be a internet classic.

Imagine the scenes when a rake of Hamburg Suds arrive, each one having been decorated by Art School grads, primary school kids and 'TV experts', and it wins all the awards cos someone at VICE calls it an environmental revolution.

Plus MP's love a job creation wave Tidal Wave Tsunami.

Or actually strap a load of buses to a flat wagon

 

[py_megapixel]

Or actually strap a load of buses to a flat wagon

Not convoluted enough for me - How about a bus on a flatbed lorry on a flat wagon, top-and-tailed by a couple of class 66s, which have ceremonially failed and are being dragged by a 37? Also, cram as many barrier vehicles into the formation as possible, just for the hell of it... now that's a train (bus? lorry?) I would pay good money to travel on...

 

[Eskimo]

Not convoluted enough for me - How about a bus on a flatbed lorry on a flat wagon, top-and-tailed by a couple of class 66s, which have ceremonially failed and are being dragged by a 37? Also, cram as many barrier vehicles into the formation as possible, just for the hell of it... now that's a train (bus? lorry?) I would pay good money to travel on...

Can't forget the cyclists who would have their bikes strapped to the front / back of the bus!

 

[Welly]

Top half of a Boris Bus plonked on an ex-bogie coal wagon frame?

 

[JKF]

Top half of a Boris Bus plonked on an ex-bogie coal wagon frame?

Why bother taking the body off the coal wagon? Just cut some windows in the side.

 

[Welly]

^^^
Even better idea!

 

[AMR]

The Resemblance is Uncanny

 

[Bletchleyite]

Might be a poor man's 170, but calling it a modern-day Pacer is a bit harsh, no?