Fantasy idea: opening new Line for Everton & Liverpool

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inner-city

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http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Rapid-Transit-Football.html

The City of Liverpool has Rapid-Transit Rail Lines Awaiting Two Football Clubs, an Arena and the Community

Joined up thinking by all parties can give Everton FC, Liverpool FC, Kings Dock Arena and the community a new Merseyrail Metro line.

Rapid-transit can move over 40,000 people per hour, maximising stadia and line investment.

Not to use the available Merseyrail Metro Rapid-Transit for Three Stadia is Irresponsible.

Rapid-transit rail has ensured that Arsenal FC have filled their new stadium to over 97% of capacity since 2006.


Ideal Opportunity To Combine All Parties

The city will never see such an opportunity. How often:
  • Do two large football clubs build stadia at the same time?
  • Does the city propose a city-wide electric transit system - trams but Merseyrail metro is superior?
  • Does the city regenerate so quickly?
  • Does the government electrify rail lines - the City Line from Liverpool to Wigan, and the Canada Dock Branch Line?
The opportunity must not be lost to combine all parties for the greater good of the football clubs and the community to create economic growth. A newly opened rapid-transit rail line on the Merseyrail metro opened to passengers may serve:
....
....
....
continued:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Rapid-Transit-Football.html
 
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inner-city

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Ah the infamous John MK from skyscrapercity has returned in a new home I see :lol:

Skyscrapers? This is trains and lines. :o Like this:

 

Clip

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Rapid-transit rail has ensured that Arsenal FC have filled their new stadium to over 97% of capacity since 2006.

This makes no sense whatsoever. And I dont believe it to be true either. Selling tickets to the games is what has helped them fill thier stadium, not the tube.
 

inner-city

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This makes no sense whatsoever. And I dont believe it to be true either. Selling tickets to the games is what has helped them fill thier stadium, not the tube.

It makes abundant sense. Members of the Merseyside Civic Society called the scheme "inspirational", as it ticks all the boxes. The link clearly states that the Emirates stadium is very easy and fast to get to in comfort and easy to get away from. The 27 rapid-transit platforms around the stadium is the key to filling a 60,000 stadium every game for over 6 years. That level of attendance is unprecedented in the world for any new stadia. During this time Arsenal have won nothing. So they were not clambering to get to the Emirates because of a successful club that won trophies, that is clear.


Above: The rapid-transit stations around the Emirates is phenomenal.
Drayton Park station next to the stadium is not shown.

Spurs viewing the key to Arsenal's success were super eager to get hold of the Olympic stadium. Spurs wanted to:
  1. Pull down the stadium.
  2. Build a smaller football dedicated stadium, with corporate facilities, on its site.
  3. Build another stadium in Crystal Palace for athletics.
Just to get that site.

Why were Spurs prepared to spend an amazing amount of money in 1 to 3 above? Because of the rapid-transit rail links, Crossrail, etc, at Stratford, that would guarantee stadia success.

The key to the Arsenal success has not gone unnoticed by many - Spurs saw it. Many in Liverpool are wanting the two clubs and the city to get together to adopt the same Arsenal approach. Liverpool has Merseyrail, a smaller version of the London Underground, complete with redundant mothballed trackbed and tunnels. So emulating Arsenal is easy. The North Liverpool Extension line was to be a part of Merseyrail in the 1970s, however Thatcher stopped all that from materializing. She got in power at the end of Merseyrail project and it was shelved due to budget. This line was to form the eastern section of a city-wide Merseyrail loop. The city is still waiting for the full loop with large parts of north east and south east sections of the city not served by Merseyrail rapid-transit.


Above: The eastern mothballed section of the Outer Loop is in red. The green & pink dotted is the Northern Line.

This line is still there complete with bridges and is easy to merge into Merseyrail. A 100 metre stretch has half the width of the track built on by a Sainsbury's access road, but that is no show stopper.


Above: Mothballed North Liverpool Extension Line complete with bridges.

The North Liverpool Extension line reused or the used Canada Dock freight line, which is to be electrified soon, and used for passengers again, are the obvious lines to serve two large stadia. The stadia can be miles apart on the lines. Completing the full Outer Loop of the city is best approach. This can run into the airport when a line is run into the terminal eventually.

Having the stadia on rapid-transit with comprehensive connections and park & ride, would reduce the nuisance value of these structures.

The opportunity must not be lost to combine all parties for the greater good of the football clubs and the community to create economic growth. A newly opened rapid-transit rail line on the Merseyrail metro opened to passengers may serve:

  • Many districts in the city
  • Wider Merseyside
  • Everton FC
  • Liverpool FC
  • The Kings Dock Arena
The city has to get it right as these stadia will be around for 100 years or more. Do it wrong and two white elephants may emerge. All the ingredients are there to guarantee success all around. It needs knocking heads together from many parties to get it done.

All in all a win, win all around. The case for it is overwhelming.

Also look at:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Merseyrail-Extensions.html
 
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MidnightFlyer

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I think you'll find Arsenal fill Ashburton Grove (AKA the Emirates) every week due to their mass popularity, not because they are so well connected. Remove the Tube links for example and I doubt attendance would fall, there's more ways around it.
 

Wath Yard

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Railway lines are not built to serve football grounds. This is a total non-starter. Just because somebody can draw colourful lines on a map does not make the case overwhelming.
 

inner-city

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Railway lines are not built to serve football grounds.

That is why when building two stadia you move the stadia to the existing mothballed rail lines.

Arsenal when at Highbury only got 30-40,000 when it held 55,000. Only in the odd big game was it full.

Analysts have put the key to the success to the 27 platforms around the stadium - which Spurs homed in on as they are proposing a new stadium. Give the top class stadia facilities and ease of access in comfort and they turn up. The Emirates has proven that beyond all doubt.

Also Liverpool city gets many of it districts onto rapid-transit rail as it was to 40 years ago. The city would only be playing catch-up and accommodating two large stadia in the process
 

MidnightFlyer

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Never in modern times could Highbury hols 50,000, it was maximum 38,000 IIRC, which was often full.
 

Wath Yard

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That is absolute nonsense. Highbury had a capacity of just over 38,000, which is why they got crowds of 35-40,000. The reason they moved is because the new stadium has significantly higher capacity and they knew they could fill it.

Who are these analysts? Any names?
 

jon0844

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Am I supposed to take anything seriously if it's hosted on some free webspace provided by an ISP?

There might be many great ideas on the site, but it just looks like one person who 'has a dream' but nobody else is in the slightest bit interested.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The North Liverpool Extension line was to be a part of Merseyrail in the 1970s, however Thatcher stopped all that from materializing. She got in power at the end of Merseyrail project and it was shelved due to budget. This line was to form the eastern section of a city-wide Merseyrail loop. The city is still waiting for the full loop with the eastern part of the city not served by Merseyrail rapid-transit.....This line is still there complete with bridges and is easy to merge into Merseyrail. A 100 metre stretch has half the width of the track built on by a Sainsbury's access road, but that is no show stopper.

You have introduced a political dimension into your submission, but under the period of three consecutive Labour governments, nothing was done with the North Liverpool Extension Railway. You quote the "Thatcher" dimension, but seem unaware that the line section from Gateacre to Aintree was closed to passengers as far back as 1960, some 52 years ago.

I am somewhat of a railway historian with knowledge of this area and the only reason that you give for the reopening of this line to give access to football stadia, but you make no mention whatsoever of the communities that were served on this line which runs from the currently opened railway stations of Halewood to Aintree Central. For your knowledge improvement, there were once railway stations at Gateacre, Chilwall, Knotty Ash, West Derby, Clubmoor and Warbreck on this line. Why did you not give examples of how this re-opened line would benefit the travelling needs of these six communities ?
 

ushawk

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Arsenal fill their stadium each week because they have a MASSIVE fanbase - simple as that.

The transport is good, because the club were/are based in an area with a few tube stations and a mainline train station in the local area - this is London after all where the transport system is among the best (best as in frequent, not best as in great service).

Transport to Liverpool/Everton on matchdays isnt bad, there is already a park and ride system in operation and there is the Soccerbus from Sandhills station (used it a few months ago, was pretty good).
 

Ivo

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This is ridiculous. I know that as part of the Stanley Park stadium development there was interest in re-opening the line, with the losers in red funding a new station in the area, but otherwise nothing. And as for the "real" Merseyside team (:p), I don't think we'll be getting a new stadium any time soon. I haven't heard much if anything since Labour declined the Kirkby proposal.

As for Arsenal, Matt is right in saying that the post-Taylor report had a capacity of only ~38K, which was one of the reasons the new stadium was built in the first place! LUL have not helped sell tickets; they have merely made it easier for people to get there - and unless I'm mistaken, which I know I'm not, Highbury was served by LUL as well. Was it not the work of the legendary Herbert Chapman that resulted in Gillespie Road being renamed "Arsenal"?
 

tbtc

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Rapid-transit rail has ensured that Arsenal FC have filled their new stadium to over 97% of capacity since 2006

It makes abundant sense. Members of the Merseyside Civic Society called the scheme "inspirational", as it ticks all the boxes. The link clearly states that the Emirates stadium is very easy and fast to get to in comfort and easy to get away from. The 27 rapid-transit platforms around the stadium is the key to filling a 60,000 stadium every game for over 6 years. That level of attendance is unprecedented in the world for any new stadia. During this time Arsenal have won nothing. So they were not clambering to get to the Emirates because of a successful club that won trophies, that is clear

Is that the same Arsenal who's fans cannot use the local station (Drayton Park?) because of congestion, proving that you cannot always allow football fans to use the closest station to a ground?

Also, maybe someone can tell me about the huge increases in underground platforms at/around other stadiums, given the general increase in attendances at top flight games in recent years? For example, for Newcastle United to go from 10/20,000 to their current 50,000 I presume that there are now at least twice as many stations in the area around St James's park compared to when football was invented in 1992?
 

Wolfie

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That is why when building two stadia you move the stadia to the existing mothballed rail lines.

Arsenal when at Highbury only got 30-40,000 when it held 55,000. Only in the odd big game was it full.

Analysts have put the key to the success to the 27 platforms around the stadium - which Spurs homed in on as they are proposing a new stadium. Give the top class stadia facilities and ease of access in comfort and they turn up. The Emirates has proven that beyond all doubt.

Also Liverpool city gets many of it districts onto rapid-transit rail as it was to 40 years ago. The city would only be playing catch-up and accommodating two large stadia in the process

With respect to Arsenal what a load of complete and utter male bovine excrement!

I have lived within a mile and a half of Highbury/Emirates stadiums since 1990 and have to say that you haven't got a scooby. Do you even realise that the Emirates is no more than a mile from the old Highbury stadium? Do you even realise that Highbury had exactly the same access to "platforms" as you put it as the Emirates does? Do you realise that people queue at Highbury and Islington and Finsbury Park for up to an hour after matches because the tube system and stations cannot cope with the surge in users?

You are correct that Spurs are proposing a new stadium - about 500m from the old one! - and yes, they would like a tube station there (which is actually possible if someone comes up with the dosh as the Victoria line has a depot in the vacinity). They proposed taking over the Olympic stadium because it does have excellent transport links but would also have been more cost effective for them, simple as.....

One final question - who do you think is going to pay for your pipedream because Liverpool and Everton certainly won't.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Never in modern times could Highbury hols 50,000, it was maximum 38,000 IIRC, which was often full.

Absolutely correct - Highbury had a massive waiting list for saeson tickets - in many cases it was literally deadman's shoes.....

...and you know what, despite have a MUCH bigger new ground nothing has changed, see:

http://www.arsenal.com/membership/need-help-/-contact-us/season-ticket-waiting-list

Before anyone comments I am no gooner (my name on here gives you a big clue who I support) but I am also no fan of people posting complete drivel about the area I live in either!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is that the same Arsenal who's fans cannot use the local station (Drayton Park?) because of congestion, proving that you cannot always allow football fans to use the closest station to a ground?

Drayton Park, on the FCC line into Moorgate, has a very limited service on weekdays only and is not open for either night matches or weekend fixtures.

Holloway Road which is the nearest tube station to the Emirates has only lift access and again has entry/exit restrictions in place on match days.

The three stations used are Finsbury Park, Arsenal and Highbury & Islington.
 

jon0844

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Is that the same Arsenal who's fans cannot use the local station (Drayton Park?) because of congestion, proving that you cannot always allow football fans to use the closest station to a ground?

Drayton Park would see people killed almost every match (and not deliberately) as there's a single island platform. It's also third rail there.

I am sure the station could be upgraded to create two individual platforms, and FCC could quite easily run 6-car shuttles at weekends (when the line into Moorgate is closed) but unless Arsenal wanted to pay for it, it isn't going to happen.

As a result, the longer walk to Finsbury Park makes more sense as it allows for better crowd control. Many people also walk to Arsenal, or Highbury & Islington. In fact, when I last went there, we walked to Highbury & Islington and had a drink (or two!) along Upper Street and I walked on to Angel to get back to King's Cross later on and home. The crowds had long gone!

One thing however - these stations and lines are well used all the time. Who is going to build a line that is geared around linking to a football ground when there might only be one or two games per week?
 

inner-city

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You have introduced a political dimension into your submission, but under the period of three consecutive Labour governments, nothing was done with the North Liverpool Extension Railway.

I am somewhat of a railway historian with knowledge of this area and the only reason that you give for the reopening of this line to give access to football stadia, but you make no mention whatsoever of the communities that were served on this line which runs from the currently opened railway stations of Halewood to Aintree Central. For your knowledge improvement, there were once railway stations at Gateacre, Chilwall, Knotty Ash, West Derby, Clubmoor and Warbreck on this line. Why did you not give examples of how this re-opened line would benefit the travelling needs of these six communities ?

The fact is Thatcher stopped the line being incorporated into Merseyrail as was planned and work actually started. That is FACT. In rail people constantly mention Beeching which was 100% political. It is you introducing Tory vs Labour not me. That is for another thread.

The link clearly lists these stations you mentioned.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Rapid-Transit-Football.html
It is best you read before criticizing. ;) The eastern section of the Outer Loop can branch into the Kirkby branch of the Northern Line at Rice Lane station to for the northern section of the Outer Loop. This takes Aintree out of the Loop. But makes the loop smaller. An interchange station can be at Broad Green for the newly electrified City Line coming in from St.Helens and maybe Wigan.

The Edge Hill Spur project, the reuse of the 1829 tunnel which would take trains from the east of the city into the central underground section, was a part of the project and the burrowing junction south of Central underground station and tunnel headers to branch into the old tunnel were built. Some parts of the proposed underground Broad Green interchange station was started, but only superficial stuff. Extensive survey, design, costing and material supply work was done. Broad Green was to an underground Parkway station in the east of the city together with Liverpool Parkways station in the south. South Parkways station was eventually completed about 6 years ago.

"but you make no mention whatsoever of the communities that were served on this line".
I clearly did mention these districts and the economic growth the would gain and that is also in the article. Not written by me BTW, however the two web pages are excellent giving the scope of what is there is rail and how it can be easily incorporated into Merseyrail. It would be nice if other cities did something similar to alert all to what they have and how it be reused or extended. BTW and am not from MK. If people have nothing to contribute to the points of this thread will they please keep off the thread for the benefit of all. I notice a lot of "noise" is being generated.

Arsenal: Highbury held over 60,000 for decades before seats were phased in. They would average 38-40,000. The highest attendance was over 73,000. A quick Google brings up lots on that. Until the maximum capacity was 38,000, Arsenal never had 100% full houses over 6 years. It just never happened.

Analysts have put the key to the current Emirates success on the ease of access via rapid-transit rail - hence Spurs striving to emulate the formula.
 
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Ivo

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Analysts have put the key to the current Emirates success on the ease of access via rapid-transit rail - hence Spurs striving to emulate the formula.

I take it these "analysts" are jealous (and ambitious) Spurs fans who have no experience in statistics?

Arsenal: Highbury held over 60,000 at one time before all seats came. They would average 38-40,000. The highest attendance was over 73,000. A quick Google brings up lost on that.

The same figures also show that EVERY club had lower attendance figures. For sake of argument, I have looked up 1988-89, when Arsenal won the title with just seconds to go, and note that the lowest average attendance in the top flight was less than 8,000. Liverpool were top - but even they had only 38K. Thus, this is not a valid comparison.

Going back ten years, to a time when Arsenal were pretty average (winning the 1979 FA Cup aside), they were still attracting the fourth highest number in the country - and this at a time when many families stayed away from football. Even Leeds had only 22K; is this drop entirely because there is no station close to Elland Road? I think not.

To give the more blatant example of 1981-82, during a period of Merseyside dominance, only Man Utd cleared 35K by more than a fraction. At the time, they would have had no direct rail-based system, other than to the platform behind the South Stand which is used only by a minority.
 
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inner-city

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I have been to Highbury and the Emirates on many occasions. The Emirates is better for station access being that bit closer to stations. Arsenal are to pay to uprate Holloway Rd as part of the PP. Not been done yet.

BTW, Drayton Park is not used on a Saturday. But on weekdays it does shift a few thousands fans.

Nevertheless Arsenal has unprecedented rapid-transit rail access to their stadium which makes it attractive for fans. The access to the stations of course could be better, but the stations all around the stadium clearly shifts half the fans at least.

The secret of the attendance success is clearly the number of stations surrounding the stadium. This you have to accept.
 
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Ivo

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The secret of the attendance success is clearly the number of stations surrounding the stadium. This you have to accept.

Well then, let's compare it to Old Trafford, which has seen its attendance figures double since the early 1990s (i.e. x2 against Arsenal's x1.6).

Stations around OT: Nothing that wasn't there before the expansion. Within range, you have Old Trafford and Trafford Bar on the Metrolink and the platform behind the South Stand. That is all. Most will be travelling by other means, even if they are headed to Piccadilly.

Also, a large number of clubs are relocating to new areas, most of which are further from stations than previously (Brighton excepted).

I will say one thing (from a biased perspective) though - thank you for saying "Everton & Liverpool" and not "Liverpool & Everton". Makes us sound better :p
 

inner-city

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Liverpool FC were foolishly given PP for 60,000 stadium on the grade 2 listed park next to Anfield. The area can barely cope with 40,000 right now. This PP was granted before the success of the Emirates and Old Trafford was extended giving an attendance of 76,000. Liverpool FC reassessed.

Liverpool FC applied to extend the plan to over 70,000. The City turned them down unless a station was built on the diesel only nearby Canada Dock Branch freight line. A picture of this line is in a post above. The line would not be an integrated part of the Merseyrail electrics network. This line is being electrified in the current Liverpool-Manchester-Wigan-St.Helens electrification. This will make integration easier and the line merged into the Merseyrail City Line. But, the Edge Hill Spur project (reusing the 1929 tunnel) would need to be reactivated to fully maximize the potential of this line taking it into the underground central section and onto the Wirral and Chester. The Canada Dock Branch line (now called the Bootle branch as it extended to Bootle) runs through some densely populated disenfranchised districts, sparking economic growth.

Getting the Canada Dock Branch up and running soon is easy because of the electrification, but any further work is at the whims of the DfT in Whitehall who spend 50% of the transport budget in and around London. The Edge Hill Spurs scheme would transform Merseyrail and properly serve disconnected parts of the city. After over 40 years of waiting.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Well then, let's compare it to Old Trafford,

Let's not. Man U have been a raving success on the field when Arsenal have not been. There lays the difference.

I will say one thing (from a biased perspective) though - thank you for saying "Everton & Liverpool" and not "Liverpool & Everton". Makes us sound better :p

Do you mean Everton are not better? They are further up the table than Liverpool at the mo' ;)

Coventry City foolishly never built a station on the line next to their stadium, as they were supposed to. Councils should insist the stations are built with the stadium otherwise they club's will never contribute. Coventry could have used the extra income a station would bring to their attendances.

BTW, Manchester wanted an underground network, but HMG refused on costs, so they went for trams as a compromise. A station was proposed for O Trafford.
 
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Ivo

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OK, OK - makes us sounds much better and more important!

Both of which are true anyway :p

But that's enough of this for me. I'll just finish off by noting that Arsenal have been an outstanding success over the last 15 years; under Wenger they have had their best period quite possibly ever (if not, since Chapman in the early 30s). One 8-2 loss does not negate this.

By the way, are you willing to reveal the club you support, if any? This may give us more understanding of where you are coming from. And in the event it is Everton, I wholeheartedly apologise - and if it's the other lot in the city...
 

inner-city

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I take it these "analysts" are jealous (and ambitious) Spurs fans who have no experience in statistics?

Daft illogical Football rivalry and comparisons is not needed here. That is for the footy forums. It adds no value to the points in question.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
By the way, are you willing to reveal the club you support, if any?

I am an Evertonian. Everton are the senior club, one of the oldest. However that does not detract from that fact I want both clubs at top class stadia with their own rapid-transit station served by the local metro which also adds value to the surrounding districts and the people of the Liverpool area in general.

Saying that all major cities in the UK should have the same in top class stadia and transport connections.

Liverpool FC have PP on one site and look to be not happy with their original 60,000 design. Everton FC are in a ramshackle old ground, and an embarrassment in modern times and have not even nailed down a site for their proposed stadium - they were rejected from building a stadium in Kirkby and quite right as well. There was no plan to expand the Kirby Merseyrail station making access a nightmare.
  1. The need for the east of the city to be on Merseyrail
  2. Everton FC needs a stadium
  3. Liverpool looking at stadium options
The above pressing points must lead to the opening the mothballed eastern section of the Outer Loop line to cope.
 
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ushawk

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I have been to Highbury and the Emirates on many occasions. The Emirates is better for station access being that bit closer to stations. Arsenal are to pay to uprate Holloway Rd as part of the PP. Not been done yet.

BTW, Drayton Park is not used on a Saturday. But on weekdays it does shift a few thousands fans.

Nevertheless Arsenal has unprecedented rapid-transit rail access to their stadium which makes it attractive for fans. The access to the stations of course could be better, but the stations all around the stadium clearly shifts half the fans at least.

The secret of the attendance success is clearly the number of stations surrounding the stadium. This you have to accept.

People dont support a club because it has good transport links !!!!!

Of course, all clubs will want stadiums with 4 stations near by as then its easier for a high amount of people to be cleared.

ALL the transport infrastructure has been in place around Highbury/Emirates for a very long time, not all built in the last 10 years for the new stadium. Clubs may pay for improvements to the closest station if they have a new stadium near by (IE the mighty Brighton, paid for the large bridge over Falmer station and may be funding platform extension work for 8-car trains for the new Amex Stadium).

QPR have 4 tube stations and 1 National Rail/Overground station near by Loftus Road, yet they dont have a huge fanbase (although it has got bigger since promotion, but thats another topic).
 

Mutant Lemming

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The reason the 'loop' was closed in the first place was because it was far quicker to travel initially by tram and latterly by bus in to the city centre from most of the Eastern suburbs it served because it went right down to Gateacre before heading back in to the city centre. This would still hold true today so no one would use it.

As for serving the football grounds - the line is almost as far from the stadia than Kirkdale, the current nearest station and LFC don't plan to move very far.

There are very few opportunities to create new heavy rail routes around Liverpool -one being possibly utilising the old Garston Dock tracks to open an airport station. Serving the neglected North Eastern and South Eastern peripheral estates could only really be achieved by a light rail system and that is unlikely due to the nature of Liverpool politics. Even when one party has an overwhelming majority it then splits in to factions (Labour/Militant, Liberal Democrat/Liberal). A mixture of dithering and infighting put the city's airport devleopment back years and lost the city a modern tram network - opportunities which were embraced with open arms down the other end of the East Lancs.

The key needs for transport in Liverpool is to improve the current infrastructure first, then possibly look at an airport link followed by exploring the possibility of light rail to those more populous estates to the North-East and South-East of the city.
Why spend on infrastructure to a venues used once a week for 9 months of the year?
 

inner-city

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People dont support a club because it has good transport links !!!!!

Most who "support" a club do not go to the games. They are TV supporters. Making it easy to get to and from will encourage those who normally nor go and the likes of dads take their boys. That is just the way it is. Give em the access and facilities and they turn up.

ALL the transport infrastructure has been in place around Highbury/Emirates for a very long time, not all built in the last 10 years for the new stadium.

QPR have 4 tube stations and 1 National Rail/Overground station near by Loftus Road, yet they dont have a huge fanbase (although it has got bigger since promotion, but thats another topic).

QPR have a tiny old fashioned "ground". All this footy comparison talk distracts from the point that Arsenal's success is because of the 25 platforms around the top quality stadium. Hint: Highbury was an old dump, Emirates is state of the art. ;)
 

Wolfie

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QPR have a tiny old fashioned "ground". All this footy comparison talk distracts from the point that Arsenal's success is because of the 25 platforms around the top quality stadium. Hint: Highbury was an old dump, Emirates is state of the art. ;)

More bull about Arsenal! Two of the stands at Highbury were listed buildings and still stand, having been converted into VERY expensive flats. The other two which had been extensively redeveloped in the 80s/90shave been demolished and more expensive flats built!!!

How can anyone who has Goodison Park as a home ground call anywhere an old dump (even Loftus Road which I concede is poor)?

Oh, and Arsenal's success might be a lot to do with the demographics of its support - clue they earn LOTS more than most scousers! - rather than the public transport options to get to the ground.
 

inner-city

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The reason the 'loop' was closed in the first place was because it was far quicker to travel initially by tram and latterly by bus in to the city centre from most of the Eastern suburbs it served because it went right down to Gateacre before heading back in to the city centre. This would still hold true today so no one would use it.

Firstly it was a slow infrequent steam service and not a loop in those days - closed in 1960. There was no interchange station at Broad Green. It would need such a station. The 1970s plan had a 6 platform underground interchange "parkway" station at Broad Green. Local Broad Green Tory MP Steen, involved in the expenses scandal, helped scupper it.

As for serving the football grounds - the line is almost as far from the stadia than Kirkdale, the current nearest station and LFC don't plan to move very far.

Read what was proposed. It clearly stated that open:
  1. The full Outer Loop
  2. Canada Dock Branch
Then find sites on the lines to suit the club's stadia.
There are very few opportunities to create new heavy rail routes around Liverpool - one being possibly utilising the old Garston Dock tracks to open an airport station.
Even Merseyrail/Merseytravel are contemplating light-rail rolling stick (aka DLR style).

The airports best served via Halewood over fields. such as:

Above:
  • Merseyrail in red, it can use the London line behind the Jaguar factory or ideally the Manchester line - the top rail line. Only two tracks may be used for all services
  • The WCML London lines in blue
  • The Manchester line in green
  • If the Outer Loop is recommissioned, in light blue, it could have a direct line into the airport. This gives large parts of north, east and south Liverpool direct access to the airport.
The key needs for transport in Liverpool is to improve the current infrastructure first, then possibly look at an airport link followed by exploring the possibility of light rail to those more populous estates to the North-East and South-East of the city.
Why spend on infrastructure to a venues used once a week for 9 months of the year?

The key need is get the eastern section accessed as you say and accommodate the new football stadia. Top class transport give kudos to many 100s of visits to football events each year, UK and European.

The viability to open lines to passengers is that the two large football clubs can attract approximately four million passenger trips per year for football traffic alone. Usage by the community on an every day basis and further events at the stadia will further increase passenger trips significantly to may be 8 million. Those figures need DfT money ASAP.

The nusisance value of stadia is vastly reduced moving most fans by rapid transit. Pollution is vastly reduced with millions of vehicles journey's taken off the roads over a year. Collectively over a year the CO2 reduction is highly significant if rapid-transit served Everton FC, Liverpool FC, the Kings Dock Arena and Greater Liverpool.

Labour/Militant? :roll: It is not the 1980s any more.
 
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starrymarkb

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Exeter City have 2 platforms yet attendance is down (as I suspect they will be as their money has run out!)

How has the Metro affected the SportsDirect.com Arena?
 
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