FANTASY: redesign your own TOC's timetable

[Peterthegreat]

For the Chiltern Mainline

(xx00) Marylebone to Birmingham Snow Hill:
High Wcombe, Banbury, Leamington Spa, warwick Parkway, Solihull, Birmingham Moor Street, Birmingham Snow Hill
*peak time extensions to/from Kidderminster/Stourbridge for stabling*

(xx05) Marylebone to Oxford
Haddenham &Thame Prkway, Bicester Village, Oxford Parkway, Oxford

(xx09) Marylebone to Banbury
Denham, Gerrards Cross, Beaconsfield,
High Wycombe, Princes Risborough, Haddenham & Thame Parkway,
Bicester North, Kings Sutton (1tp2h), Banbury
(xxxx) Oxford to Stratford upon Avon (tp2h) connects out off (xx00 ex MYB) calling at Tackley, Upper Heyford, Kings Sutton, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Warwick, Warwick Parkway, Hatton, Claverdon (certain trains only), Bearley (certain trains only), Wilmcote, Stratford Parkway &Stratford upon Avon

(xx12) Marylebone to High Wycombe stopper operated by fast acceleration DMUs
Wembley Stadium, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Sudbury Hill Harrow, Northolt Park, West Ruislip, Gerrards Cross, Seer Green & Jordans, Beaconsfield, High Wycombe

(xxxx) 1tph West Ealing to Gerrards Cross (interworks with 1tph West Ealing to Greenford, pathed behind xx12 ex MYB from South Ruislip)
Drayton Green, Castle Bar Park, South Greenford, South Ruislip, West Ruislip, Denham, Denham Golf Club, Gerrards Cross

(xx27) Marylebone to Aylesbury Vale Prkway
Harrow on the hill, Rickmansworth, Chorleywood, Chalfont, Amersham & all stations to AVP

(xx32) Marylebone to Oxford
High Wycombe, Princes Risborough, Bicester Village, Islip (1tp2h) Oxford Parkway, Oxford

(xx35) Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street
Beaconsfield, Bicester North, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Warwick, Dorridge, Solihull, Birmingham Moor Street

(xx38) Marylebone to MKC via HW)
Sudbury Hill Harrow, West Ruislip, Gerrards Cross, Beaconsfield, High Wycombe, Saunderton, Princes Risborough, Monks Risborough, Little Kimble, Aylesbury, Quainton Road, Winslow, Blehchley, Milton Keynes Central

(xx42) Marylebone to Gerrards Cross
Wembley Stadium, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Northolt Park, South Ruislip, Denham, Gerrards Cross

(xx57) Marylebone to Aylesbury
Harrow on the Hill, Rickmansworth, chorleywood, chalfont, Amersham, then all stations to Aylesbury

1tp2h, Nuneaton to Bristol Temple Meads,
Bermuda Park, Bedworth, Coventry Arena, Coventry, Kenilworth, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford, Radley, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa, Keynsham, Bristol Temple Meads

Standard Off peak Pattern with ammended pattern during the Peaks

Your xx.05 would run into the xx.00 at High Wycombe and the xx.35 would run into the xx.32 at Risborough.

 

[A S Leib]

For the Chiltern Mainline

(xx00) Marylebone to Birmingham Snow Hill:
High Wcombe, Banbury, Leamington Spa, warwick Parkway, Solihull, Birmingham Moor Street, Birmingham Snow Hill
*peak time extensions to/from Kidderminster/Stourbridge for stabling*

(xx05) Marylebone to Oxford
Haddenham &Thame Prkway, Bicester Village, Oxford Parkway, Oxford

(xx09) Marylebone to Banbury
Denham, Gerrards Cross, Beaconsfield,
High Wycombe, Princes Risborough, Haddenham & Thame Parkway,
Bicester North, Kings Sutton (1tp2h), Banbury
(xxxx) Oxford to Stratford upon Avon (tp2h) connects out off (xx00 ex MYB) calling at Tackley, Upper Heyford, Kings Sutton, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Warwick, Warwick Parkway, Hatton, Claverdon (certain trains only), Bearley (certain trains only), Wilmcote, Stratford Parkway &Stratford upon Avon

(xx12) Marylebone to High Wycombe stopper operated by fast acceleration DMUs
Wembley Stadium, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Sudbury Hill Harrow, Northolt Park, West Ruislip, Gerrards Cross, Seer Green & Jordans, Beaconsfield, High Wycombe

(xxxx) 1tph West Ealing to Gerrards Cross (interworks with 1tph West Ealing to Greenford, pathed behind xx12 ex MYB from South Ruislip)
Drayton Green, Castle Bar Park, South Greenford, South Ruislip, West Ruislip, Denham, Denham Golf Club, Gerrards Cross

(xx27) Marylebone to Aylesbury Vale Prkway
Harrow on the hill, Rickmansworth, Chorleywood, Chalfont, Amersham & all stations to AVP

(xx32) Marylebone to Oxford
High Wycombe, Princes Risborough, Bicester Village, Islip (1tp2h) Oxford Parkway, Oxford

(xx35) Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street
Beaconsfield, Bicester North, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Warwick, Dorridge, Solihull, Birmingham Moor Street

(xx38) Marylebone to MKC via HW)
Sudbury Hill Harrow, West Ruislip, Gerrards Cross, Beaconsfield, High Wycombe, Saunderton, Princes Risborough, Monks Risborough, Little Kimble, Aylesbury, Quainton Road, Winslow, Blehchley, Milton Keynes Central

(xx42) Marylebone to Gerrards Cross
Wembley Stadium, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Northolt Park, South Ruislip, Denham, Gerrards Cross

(xx57) Marylebone to Aylesbury
Harrow on the Hill, Rickmansworth, chorleywood, chalfont, Amersham, then all stations to Aylesbury

1tp2h, Nuneaton to Bristol Temple Meads,
Bermuda Park, Bedworth, Coventry Arena, Coventry, Kenilworth, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford, Radley, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa, Keynsham, Bristol Temple Meads

Standard Off peak Pattern with ammended pattern during the Peaks

No Moor Park calls then, unless you'd redesign the Met timetable to have Amersham (or even Chesham, but probably less likely as not enough room for 2 tph to Watford and Aldgate) to Watford services to make Aylesbury–Watford one change without having to go to Harrow-on-the-Hill?

 

[moonarrow458]

Your xx.05 would run into the xx.00 at High Wycombe and the xx.35 would run into the xx.32 at Risborough.

Swap the xx00 and xx05 and then retime the xx32 to xx30 and that ought to resolve that, possibly requiring pathing allowamces etc. No idea how it would work capacity and pathing wise with XC, WMT trains and freight at Leamington but its just fantasy, and more what id design it in terms of frequency and stopping patterns

No Moor Park calls then, unless you'd redesign the Met timetable to have Amersham (or even Chesham, but probably less likely as not enough room for 2 tph to Watford and Aldgate) to Watford services to make Aylesbury–Watford one change without having to go to Harrow-on-the-Hill?

I Did consider Moor Park calls but figured it would make the already slow Aylesbury services slower

 

[SE%Traveller]

My tweaks are mainly around London, Chatham & Dover lines:

2 x Rainham/ Gillingham to St Albans -Stopping to Bromley South, Fast to Denmark Hill, Stopping to St Albans)
2 x Sevenoaks to St Albans -Stopping via Catford, Stopping to St Albans
2 x Orpington to Luton - Stopping via Catford, Semi Fast to Luton
2 x Bellingham to Luton = Stopping, Semi Fast to Luton (Peak Only)
2 x Rainham/ Gillingham to Charring Cross Semi Fast via Woolwich
2 x Orpington to Victoria via Penge East
2 x Beckenham Junction to Victoria


The Rainham Service takes over the current Gillingham to Victoria departing BMS at xx00 (as now). North of River it takes the path of the Mitcham J to St Albans

Sevenoaks departs Bromley South at XX03/33 then takes the path of the Wimbledon to St Albans Service

Orpington to Luton as now XX13/43 from Bromley South

Bellingham to Luton departs XX08/ 38 and takes the current Rainham Luton Path north of River

Forced Change: Orpington to VIC XX18/48 with the Beckenham Junction to Vic giving even 15 stopping service mins from that station (this is to facilitate the Sevenoaks departure from BMS at xx03 the Orpington’s current timing)

Forced Change: Sutton trains curtailed at Blackfriars.

The benefits as I see them:

• Restores 4TPH Catford Loop, rising to 6TPH Peak)
• The Gillingham train now runs in front of the Sevenoaks Stopper (rather than behind I as now) improving the, journey time.
• No need to stop the Gillingham Train the Catford Loop stops in am peak
• Can remove Stops on the Dover/ Ramsgate Fasts after Rochester’s as the stopper is now 2 TPH)
• Removes Flat Junctions moves on the Holborn Lines
• Improves Reliability on the Sutton Route (on the assumption its crewed by a depot South of the River)
• In times of disruption easier to thin out Core service by turning around Catford Loop Services at Blackfriars
• Removes Thameslink interaction with Southeastern services via London Bridge
• Rainham Semi Fast can be timed to give more even intervals on North Kent

I’ve not quite sorted out Welwyn though…

 

[Magdalia]

I'll simplify the Thameslink timetable as follows, using a 24 tph peak pattern in groups of 4 tph instead of 2 as the current timetable:

The GN part of this seems to include fantasy 4 tracks all the way to both Peterborough and Cambridge. It is undeliverable on the existing infrastructure.

 

[NorthKent1989]

In addition to restoring the CHX to Gillingham via Blackheath & Woolwich service, in the peaks I’d have these extend out to Ramsgate, after Gillingham these would run fast to Faversham, then Whitstable, Herne Bay, Margate, Broadstairs and Ramsgate.
This would be for the Elizabeth line connection at Abbey Wood.

 

[fandroid]

Perhaps there was a bit of nostalgia / romance in wishing to reintroduce the old xx30 Weymouth express, admittedly, which drove my whole design, with the xx33 Portsmouth via Fareham plugging the gap in Clapham, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester and Eastleigh provision, giving an approx. 20 min interval between all those stations.

Farnborough is probably important enough for 4tph, hence the stops in the Portsmouth and Salisbury services; the 03/13/33/43 pattern also gives a reasonably even-interval service. I also chose the xx03 Salisbury for a Farnborough (and Fleet) stop rather than the xx10 Brockenhurst to avoid slowing the latter down too much and thus making it useful as part of a 20-min interval Southampton service (of the sort that typified much of the 90s).

However I did also consider a pattern more like what you describe with a 30-min headway rather than 20. So here is an alternative set of services out of Waterloo, all at half-hourly frequency:

1. Weymouth, as above. Both now call Winchester. One calls Clapham, as you suggest, and also calls New Milton, Christchurch, Pokesdown, Bournemouth and all. The faster service however is fast Brockenhurst to Bournemouth, then Poole and all. Brockenhurst-Poole shuttle still connects off the fastest of the two services to give even interval service to New Milton, Christchurch and Pokesdown. I suggest the flagship xx30 and xx00 slots, with xx30 for the faster (nostalgia reasons)

2. Semi-fasts as you suggest: Clapham, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Parkway, Southampton Central, with one being looped and then continuing to Brockenhurst. Leaves around 10 mins after 1) so around xx40 and xx10. Note that I'm suggesting a split in the "stopper" at Brockenhurst (i.e Waterloo-BCU semi-fast and BCU-Poole stopper) to ensure that the BCU-Poole stopper can connect with the faster Weymouth without being constrained by the timings of the semi-fast east of Brockenhurst.

3. Clapham, Woking, Farnborough, Fleet, Basingstoke, then one to Salisbury, which is EMU operated in this fantasy world, and one for Portsmouth via Eastleigh

4. Exeter: Clapham, Woking, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury, all to Honiton, Exeter Central and St Davids. The sole remaining DMU service. Leaves 3 mins behind Portsmouth via Eastleigh and thus 27 mins in front of the Salisbury.

5. Clapham, Surbiton, Woking, all to Basingstoke then 1tph extends to Southampton Central. To leave 10-15 mins behind 3) to give even interval service to Farnborough and Fleet

6. Alton: Clapham, Woking and all

7. Portsmouth Direct fasts: Clapham, Woking, Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, PSS, PH. I suggest the prime xx45 and xx15 slots

8. Portsmouth Direct slower service. Clapham, Woking and Guildford, then (1tph) Farncombe, Godalming, Haslemere, Liphook, Liss, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, PSS and PH and (1tph) all stations. Would leave around 10 mins behind the fasts (i.e. xx55 and xx25) allowing both, presumably, to arrive Portsmouth still in front of the following fast, so no looping necessary.

9. Clapham, Wimbledon, Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, West Byfleet, Woking, Worplesdon and Guildford. Between Woking and Guildford, ideally slots into the 20 min gap between 7) and 8), if possible

10. (SL throughout) Vauxhall, Clapham, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all to Woking. Leaves around 12 mins behind 9) to avoid 9) catching it up at the other end

Solent local services:

11. Salisbury-Romsey-Chandlers Ford-Eastleigh-Southampton calling all stations, on the opposite half-hour to the SOU service of 5)

12. Brockenhurst-Poole shuttle, connecting off faster Weymouth

13. Southampton-Portsmouth stopper

14. Southampton-Portsmouth semi-fast: St Denys, Woolston, Netley, Swanwick, Fareham and all

15. Brockenhurst-Lymington, connecting off 1)

As a Basingstoke train user (in both directions) I find the current timetable to be crazy and the worst of all worlds. For a start, every major intermediate station should have regular interval semi-fast services in both directions. Every Friday I dash to Waterloo from Walthamstow to get one of the three semi-fast trains that run in that hour after 8pm - all in the 15 minute slot between 20.05 and 20.20. No more until 21.05! The branching nature of the SWML makes it difficult but there should also be recognition that travel between the big intermediate settlements is important too, and make shorter distance travel as convenient and well served as long distance travel.

I've had a long-term gripe about the fast services that miss Basingstoke in the evenings. It's galling to wait at Winchester on a dark winter evening and to see an almost empty Waterloo fast train depart, and be forced to wait for a train from Portsmouth that's going to also stop at Micheldever, when I just want to get home to bed!

SWT and SWR never seemed to acknowledge that the mid-evening cessation of Crosscountry services from Southampton northwards leaves a local gap in late evening semi-fast services. Adding a Basingstoke stop to later runs of that fast train would help a lot and inconvenience very few people.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

As a Basingstoke train user (in both directions) I find the current timetable to be crazy and the worst of all worlds. For a start, every major intermediate station should have regular interval semi-fast services in both directions. Every Friday I dash to Waterloo from Walthamstow to get one of the three semi-fast trains that run in that hour after 8pm - all in the 15 minute slot between 20.05 and 20.20. No more until 21.05! The branching nature of the SWML makes it difficult but there should also be recognition that travel between the big intermediate settlements is important too, and make shorter distance travel as convenient and well served as long distance travel.

I've had a long-term gripe about the fast services that miss Basingstoke in the evenings. It's galling to wait at Winchester on a dark winter evening and to see an almost empty Waterloo fast train depart, and be forced to wait for a train from Portsmouth that's going to also stop at Micheldever, when I just want to get home to bed!

SWT and SWR never seemed to acknowledge that the mid-evening cessation of Crosscountry services from Southampton northwards leaves a local gap in late evening semi-fast services. Adding a Basingstoke stop to later runs of that fast train would help a lot and inconvenience very few people.

Which is quite interesting, for everyone who wants trains to be faster and stop less there’s someone else who wants them to stop more!

 

[Peterthegreat]

Which is quite interesting, for everyone who wants trains to be faster and stop less there’s someone else who wants them to stop less!

More or less?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

More or less?

Well spotted!

 

[nw1]

Which is quite interesting, for everyone who wants trains to be faster and stop less there’s someone else who wants them to stop more!

The original plan I set out (the crack express to Weymouth, fast to Parkway, and the 20-min interval semi-fast on the Waterloo-Eastleigh corridor) would both serve Basingstoke well and provide fast services to Southampton and Bournemouth. Not sure how well it work in practice, however.

 

[HS2isgood]

My plan makes the Weymouth trains (00/30) first stop Winchester. Basingstoke gets fasts but poorly spaced, xx12/xx42 stopping only at Woking (for Bournemouth), xx15 also only at Woking (for Exeter), and xx45/xx18 at Woking, Farnborough and Fleet (for Salisbury and Portsmouth Harbour respectively). xx27 and xx57 would be the Basingstoke stoppers, Woking then all. I don't think they get overtaken.

 

[miklcct]

Thameslink Wimbledon loop "saved"

I suppose it helps that the current Minister for Transport is also MP for Wimbledon...! http://www.gov.uk/government/people/patrick-mcloughlin Biography Patrick McLoughlin was appointed Secretary of State for Transport in September 2012. He is the Conservative MP for Derbyshire Dales. ??

www.railforums.co.uk

I've just reread some old post about Thameslink and the original plan was exactly what I want, which included 4 tph Bedford - Brighton and 4 tph Stevenage - Redhill

 

[HamworthyGoods]

My plan makes the Weymouth trains (00/30) first stop Winchester. Basingstoke gets fasts but poorly spaced, xx12/xx42 stopping only at Woking (for Bournemouth), xx15 also only at Woking (for Exeter), and xx45/xx18 at Woking, Farnborough and Fleet (for Salisbury and Portsmouth Harbour respectively). xx27 and xx57 would be the Basingstoke stoppers, Woking then all. I don't think they get overtaken.

Basingstoke is one of the busiest stations on the SWML, in recent years it has become a huge centre of both employment and connectivity to places such as Reading.

 

[md2016]

For the Chiltern Mainline

(xx00) Marylebone to Birmingham Snow Hill:
High Wcombe, Banbury, Leamington Spa, warwick Parkway, Solihull, Birmingham Moor Street, Birmingham Snow Hill
*peak time extensions to/from Kidderminster/Stourbridge for stabling*

(xx05) Marylebone to Oxford
Haddenham &Thame Prkway, Bicester Village, Oxford Parkway, Oxford

(xx09) Marylebone to Banbury
Denham, Gerrards Cross, Beaconsfield,
High Wycombe, Princes Risborough, Haddenham & Thame Parkway,
Bicester North, Kings Sutton (1tp2h), Banbury
(xxxx) Oxford to Stratford upon Avon (tp2h) connects out off (xx00 ex MYB) calling at Tackley, Upper Heyford, Kings Sutton, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Warwick, Warwick Parkway, Hatton, Claverdon (certain trains only), Bearley (certain trains only), Wilmcote, Stratford Parkway &Stratford upon Avon

(xx12) Marylebone to High Wycombe stopper operated by fast acceleration DMUs
Wembley Stadium, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Sudbury Hill Harrow, Northolt Park, West Ruislip, Gerrards Cross, Seer Green & Jordans, Beaconsfield, High Wycombe

(xxxx) 1tph West Ealing to Gerrards Cross (interworks with 1tph West Ealing to Greenford, pathed behind xx12 ex MYB from South Ruislip)
Drayton Green, Castle Bar Park, South Greenford, South Ruislip, West Ruislip, Denham, Denham Golf Club, Gerrards Cross

(xx27) Marylebone to Aylesbury Vale Prkway
Harrow on the hill, Rickmansworth, Chorleywood, Chalfont, Amersham & all stations to AVP

(xx32) Marylebone to Oxford
High Wycombe, Princes Risborough, Bicester Village, Islip (1tp2h) Oxford Parkway, Oxford

(xx35) Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street
Beaconsfield, Bicester North, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Warwick, Dorridge, Solihull, Birmingham Moor Street

(xx38) Marylebone to MKC via HW)
Sudbury Hill Harrow, West Ruislip, Gerrards Cross, Beaconsfield, High Wycombe, Saunderton, Princes Risborough, Monks Risborough, Little Kimble, Aylesbury, Quainton Road, Winslow, Blehchley, Milton Keynes Central

(xx42) Marylebone to Gerrards Cross
Wembley Stadium, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Northolt Park, South Ruislip, Denham, Gerrards Cross

(xx57) Marylebone to Aylesbury
Harrow on the Hill, Rickmansworth, chorleywood, chalfont, Amersham, then all stations to Aylesbury

1tp2h, Nuneaton to Bristol Temple Meads,
Bermuda Park, Bedworth, Coventry Arena, Coventry, Kenilworth, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford, Radley, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa, Keynsham, Bristol Temple Meads

Standard Off peak Pattern with ammended pattern during the Peaks

I like it a lot, but Seer Green feels like a big loser here

 

[YourMum666]

Glasgow services with LNER should run non stop to York.

 

[Basil Jet]

2 hourly extension of Medway valley train from Tunbridge to Redhill and Gatwick, direct link to Gatwick desperately needed but currently involves multiple changes and cannot be done on a through ticket

According to one of the magazines, TPTB are actively considering extending the Tonbridge Redhill service to Gatwick (via a reversal, of course). I'm surprised there is capacity, but it would seem there is. I haven't heard anything about joining it to the Medway Valley service though (although, if that is to be done, it probably needs to be done or at least planned before the franchises return to private companies, since the two lines are currently run under different franchises).

 

[liamf656]

Glasgow services with LNER should run non stop to York.

LNER are cutting their Glasgow services in 2024

 

[A S Leib]

Glasgow services with LNER should run non stop to York.

The WCML would be faster either way and would probably keep its first-stop-Warrington services – especially without HS2 to Wigan / Preston – so I think having the extra connectivity for the East Midlands at Peterborough and Newark would be better.

 

[Bald Rick]

According to one of the magazines, TPTB are actively considering extending the Tonbridge Redhill service to Gatwick (via a reversal, of course).

If you mean ‘the powers that be’… they are not considering it. It has simply been raised (again) by some local stakeholders.

 

[Southerntravel]

Looking at this from a town persepctive with 2 TOCs for a better alround service.

Weymouth:

1tph Waterloo - Dorchester, Wareham, Poole, Bournemouth, Southampton, Parkway, London
1tp 2h Waterloo - All Stations Bournemouth, Christchurch, New Milton, Brockenhurst, Southampton, Parkway, Eastleigh (connect with ex Portsmouth) then Winchester, etc London
1tp 2h Gloucester
1tp 2h - Paddington (alternate hours to Gloucester - 5 car IET) Dorchester, Maiden Newton, Yeovil, Castle Cary, Frome, Westbury (connect with Plymouth stopper) then stops to Paddington.
1tp 2h (Alternate Hours to waterloo slow, in hour of Paddington service) - Extension of current Winchester Poole Stopper to Weymouth all stations.

4 tpd - Birmingham (extension of XC (similar model to 2012 Olympic services)) Weymouth, Dorchester, Wareham, Poole, Bournemouth (normal patter)

 

[leytongabriel]

I'll simplify the Thameslink timetable as follows, using a 24 tph peak pattern in groups of 4 tph instead of 2 as the current timetable:

• 16 tph from the line through West Hampstead, among which:
  • 8 tph on the fast line, among which:
    • 4 tph Bedford - Brighton, every 15 minutes, all stations to St Albans, West Hampstead, London, East Croydon, Gatwick Airport, then one run semi fast and another run slow to fit Gatwick Express in
    • 2 tph (peak only) to Caterham, non stop between St Alban's and London and Norwood Junction
    • 2 tph (peak only) to Tattenham Corner, non stop between St Alban's and London and Norwood Junction
  • 8 tph on the slow line, among which:
    • 4 tph St Alban's - Sutton loop services, 2 in each direction
    • 4 tph Luton - Orpington every 15 minutes, with 2 continuing to Sevenoaks
• 8 tph through Finsbury Park, among which:
  • 4 tph (2 off-peak) Cambridge - Three Bridges
  • 4 tph (2 off-peak) Peterborough - Three Bridges, 2 continuing to Horsham
  • During peak hours, all 4 Cambridge trains run fast between Finsbury Park and Stevenage at an even 15-minute interval, and keep the times to Cambridge as even as possible under the constraint of the fast trains
  • During peak hours, all 4 Peterborough trains run fast from Finsbury Park, 2 of them replacing the GN fast, with the other 2 calling at Finsbury Park and switching the fast line, returning to the slow line just before Potters Bar, no longer calling at Alexandra Palace, then Hatfield and all stations from Welwyn Garden City to Peterborough.
  • Off-peak Thameslink service pattern doesn't change with the possible exception of reorganising the Cambridge services with the GN slow mentioned below north of Hitchin to provide a more even service.

The supplementary changes required by above include:

• The Southern Caterham / Tattenham Corner trains will have to run slow between East Croydon and London Bridge, with the Tattenham Corner branch portion starting at Coulsdon Town during peak hours, as the fast service will become Thameslink. This is to relieve overcrowding.
• Southeastern has to run the 2 tph Cannon Street loop via Sidcup and Woolwich all day, and extending 2 tph from Dartford to Rainham to replace the Luton - Rainham Thameslink service, restoring a lost connection in South East London
• The Thameslink service at East Grinstead will not be replaced. Instead, the Uckfield to London Bridge service should call at intermediate stations between Oxted and East Grinstead during peak hours.
• The Great Northern stopping service from Kings Cross will run to Peterborough during peak, and Cambridge off-peak, in order to provide an even service to Cambridge during peak.

And, if possible, I suggest the following changes to complement the above:

• The Caterham / Tattenham Corner Southern service should run slow all day, restoring the link between Sydenham and East Croydon
• Both the Welwyn and Hertford North GN inner suburban should get 4 tph off-peak, with the pattern follows:
  • 6 tph from Moorgate running every 10 minutes on the Northern City Line, in the order of to Welwyn, to Stevenage via Hertford North and to Hertford North every 30 minutes.
  • Upon arriving Finsbury Park, the train to Stevenage will stay on slow 2, skipping Harringay and Hornsey, while the other trains will remain on slow 1, creating a 20-minute gap between the Welwyn train and the Hertford train.
  • The Stevenage train saves time by skipping the two stations not having a platform on the slow 2, making an even 15-minute headway north of Alexandra Palace
  • The Kings Cross - Cambridge slow will arrive Finsbury Park 15 minutes after the Welwyn train and 5 minutes before the Hertford train on the slow 1 and call at all stations until Stevenage, creating an even 15-minute headway with the train from Moorgate to Welwyn.
• During peak, the slow lines south of Potters Bar will be exclusively used by Moorgate services, where Welwyn and Hertford trains should alternate like a metro service with fixed calling pattern with only Welwyn trains calling at Harringay and Hornsey (i.e. Hertford trains call at there off-peak but not peak).

Penalising Hornsey and Harringay when they are as well used as other inner suburban stations and more than some?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Looking at this from a town persepctive with 2 TOCs for a better alround service.

Weymouth:

1tph Waterloo - Dorchester, Wareham, Poole, Bournemouth, Southampton, Parkway, London
1tp 2h Waterloo - All Stations Bournemouth, Christchurch, New Milton, Brockenhurst, Southampton, Parkway, Eastleigh (connect with ex Portsmouth) then Winchester, etc London
1tp 2h Gloucester
1tp 2h - Paddington (alternate hours to Gloucester - 5 car IET) Dorchester, Maiden Newton, Yeovil, Castle Cary, Frome, Westbury (connect with Plymouth stopper) then stops to Paddington.
1tp 2h (Alternate Hours to waterloo slow, in hour of Paddington service) - Extension of current Winchester Poole Stopper to Weymouth all stations.

4 tpd - Birmingham (extension of XC (similar model to 2012 Olympic services)) Weymouth, Dorchester, Wareham, Poole, Bournemouth (normal patter)

Having one very fast service from Weymouth and one very slow service simply doesn’t work as a service pattern between Weymouth and Bournemouth (which is the much bigger passenger flow than London) your trains would end up very bunched together.

Why fast from Southampton Airport Parkway to Waterloo? Just because it was done 35 years ago really doesn’t mean it’s where people want to go to now. Winchester has by far emerged as the busier traffic objective of that an Parkway.

Demand changes over the years, SWR did a consultation in 2018 about changing stopping patterns back to a more traditional ‘91’ and it was famously thrown back by the travelling public.

I’m not sure where all the harping back to the early 1990s timetable comes from? Demand has changed so much since then (and that was before Covid).

 

[Southerntravel]

Having one very fast service from Weymouth and one very slow service simply doesn’t work as a service pattern between Weymouth and Bournemouth (which is the much bigger passenger flow than London) your trains would end up very bunched together.

Why fast from Southampton Airport Parkway to Waterloo? Just because it was done 35 years ago really doesn’t mean it’s where people want to go to now. Winchester has by far emerged as the busier traffic objective of that an Parkway.

Demand changes over the years, SWR did a consultation in 2018 about changing stopping patterns back to a more traditional ‘91’ and it was famously thrown back by the travelling public.

I’m not sure where all the harping back to the early 1990s timetable comes from? Demand has changed so much since then (and that was before Covid).

A. this is a fantasy
B. the fast patters is little different to the one currently in use south of Bournemouth minus the stop at Hamworthy. Winchester is served by other london services does it always need some from Weymouth twice an hour? Just a thought for those of us who need/want faster journeys to London. Personally I was in favour of the 1tph Waterloo and 1tp Portsmouth, id rather have less trains but faster than more and they all stop near enough the same places.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

A. this is a fantasy
B. the fast patters is little different to the one currently in use south of Bournemouth minus the stop at Hamworthy. Winchester is served by other london services does it always need some from Weymouth twice an hour? Just a thought for those of us who need/want faster journeys to London. Personally I was in favour of the 1tph Waterloo and 1tp Portsmouth, id rather have less trains but faster than more and they all stop near enough the same places.

Yes but the fantasy has to have some purpose to it!

Winchester is about fast trains to/from London.

B. the fast patters is little different to the one currently in use south of Bournemouth minus the stop at Hamworthy.

No it isn’t, compared to today the fast has dropped 3 stops between Bournemouth and Weymouth in this proposal and the stopper has gained 2 which would make the service pattern very uneven between Weymouth and Bournemouth.

 

[Envy123]

In my fantasy, I’d have Huntingdon served by fast LNER services in a similar manner to some Trent Valley stations being served by Avanti. And Maidenhead has some IC services too, so why not? But I’d suspect that pathing would make that impossible in reality.

 

[A S Leib]

And Maidenhead has some IC services too, so why not?

Some IC services currently being (on weekdays, unless they're temporarily removed) one service to Oxford at 23:38 (which for some reason skips Didcot despite serving Maidenhead and Twyford) and nothing to Swindon or Taunton and one each from Oxford and Worcester, which seems to me that GWR's motivation's more providing extra peak capacity into London than giving Maidenhead direct long-distance connections.

 

[Envy123]

Some IC services currently being (on weekdays, unless they're temporarily removed) one service to Oxford at 23:38 (which for some reason skips Didcot despite serving Maidenhead and Twyford) and nothing to Swindon or Taunton and one each from Oxford and Worcester, which seems to me that GWR's motivation's more providing extra peak capacity into London than giving Maidenhead direct long-distance connections.

I swear there was a train to Newbury between 5pm and 7pm, which did stop at Maidenhead. Though, Newbury isn't a city.

The main fantasy was for Huntingdon to have a fast train journey to and from London. LNER is far more reliable and having a sub 40 minute journey time for Huntingdon would be pure bliss. Even if it was done like the Trent Valley Avanti services, that'd still be good. But I suspect that LNER isn't interested in profiting from Huntingdon commuters and pathing would be an ache.

 

[A S Leib]

I swear there was a train to Newbury between 5pm and 7pm, which did stop at Maidenhead. Though, Newbury isn't a city.

The main fantasy was for Huntingdon to have a fast train journey to and from London. LNER is far more reliable and having a sub 40 minute journey time for Huntingdon would be pure bliss. Even if it was done like the Trent Valley Avanti services, that'd still be good. But I suspect that LNER isn't interested in profiting from Huntingdon commuters and pathing would be an ache.

Ah, I didn't check for Newbury. Just Swindon, Oxford and Taunton.

Although as the fastest London train's ~65 minutes from Huntingdon compared to 24 Maidenhead they're not really comparable to begin with.

 

[Energy]

1tp2h, Nuneaton to Bristol Temple Meads,
Bermuda Park, Bedworth, Coventry Arena, Coventry, Kenilworth, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford, Radley, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa, Keynsham, Bristol Temple Meads

End to end it would probably be 30-40 minutes slower than the current change at Birmingham.

I'd imagine that after Milverton to Kenilworth Jcn is redoubled:

> 1tph Bristol TM - Newcastle via Coventry and Leamington*
> 1tph Bournemouth - Manchester Picadilly via Coventry and Leamington*
> 1tph Bournemouth - Manchester Picadilly via Leamington only

*possibly one service stop at Kenilworth???

May be possible, obviously depending on the rest of the network.




I'd like a Leamington Spa - Coventry - Birmingham New St (or Walsall) service though no chance it would fit in with the service above.