FANTASY: You're in charge of refurbishing a train

[Bletchleyite]

Take Voyager. Push over cliff. Go home.

Seriously - rip out the insides of the voyager, fit nicer seats, lighten the decor, remove at least 1 of the toilets, take out first class, fit free wifi and plugs at every seat, remove any catering provision and use every inch of space for seats.

The VT "hybrid coach" is actually a reasonably pleasant environment (even has good luggage space between the mostly-table seat backs), though it does mean a significant capacity drop.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

firstly I would consider a refurbishment to be a proper job and not merely paper over the cracks. So....

start by standardising the coach lettering so that the first class carriages are the same letters regardless of operator and unit type.

standardise on seating types and fit and appropriate for routes and traction. So urban, inter-urban, inter urban First, intercity, intercity first. Making use of window layouts, luggage rack provision improvements and simplifying and rationalising toilets. Taking one idea of 3+1 and 2+2 seating forward

standardising on coupling systems and unit multi compatibility enabling TMS systems to talk to each other which should be as simple as hooking up a tablet to a PC via a USB!

remove all known faulty and not fit for purpose components and rebuild or replace with proven components, updating lighting power and traction systems if and where required for more efficient systems

standardise on liveries so only the franchise holder logo needs to change.

improve quality control so trains aren't put back into service with silly mistakes such as blocked reservation holders, incorrect seat numbers, overstretched fablon and fabric seams detaching.

but this is a fantasy thread so.....

 

[broadgage]

Why not have each coach with different seats so people won’t complain about them?

Each coach being different is perhaps going a bit far, but a choice of harder or softer would please a lot of people.
Firm seats to one side of the gangway, and more padded ones to the other side perhaps ?

 

[boxy321]

On XC Voyagers convert one car to a lavatory car ( asian & euro choices)
1 or 2 cars to all standing ( 1 on a 4 car - 2 on a 5 car) 5th Class
1 car on a 5 car to be 3+2 seating 4th class
The existing 1st class to be more correctly sold as 3rd class

Brilliant! Needs a long drop option too.

 

[Termy]

firstly I would consider a refurbishment to be a proper job and not merely paper over the cracks. So....

Ah, someone gets it. Give this guy a job at DfT.

 

[Mikey C]

700s to be fitted with new more padded seating, with the same layout BUT further from the walls so that people in the window seat can actually sit straight(er). ideally you'd replace the heating ducts completely.

800s to be fitted with new more padded seating, with the same layout BUT attached to the wall so that the leg nearest the wall can be removed (other classes don't have this). Interior colour scheme to be replaced by one which isn't so grey...

 

[37057]

standardising on coupling systems and unit multi compatibility enabling TMS systems to talk to each other which should be as simple as hooking up a tablet to a PC via a USB!

What you see on a TMS display doesn't do justice for what is actually going on in a "TMS system". Also, hard wiring of control circuits etc are still going to differ between units making a project impossible unless you want to completely rebuild and rewire every train just so they can couple together in service!

 

[ASharpe]

My ideas for class 333:

• Add grab rails near the doors. Currently if you are tall enough you can hang onto the large vent by the doors but the edges can be sharp.
• Replace the 3+2 with narrow 2+2 with more grab rails down the middle. This will help the guard get through to the middle of the train for stops at Platforms 2 and 5 at Shipley and give more standing room.
• Reduce the spring tension on the bins, I've seen the lid pop off when the shutter springs all the way up and you really don't want to get your fingers caught.
• Shuffle things around to get rig of the odd single seats.
• Door open button a little closer to the door.
• Toilet door should not be able to lock without anyone inside.
• Larger toilet tanks, they don't last all day and there is only one per unit.

 

[xotGD]

My ideas for class 333:

• Add grab rails near the doors. Currently if you are tall enough you can hang onto the large vent by the doors but the edges can be sharp.
• Replace the 3+2 with narrow 2+2 with more grab rails down the middle. This will help the guard get through to the middle of the train for stops at Platforms 2 and 5 at Shipley and give more standing room.
• Reduce the spring tension on the bins, I've seen the lid pop off when the shutter springs all the way up and you really don't want to get your fingers caught.
• Shuffle things around to get rig of the odd single seats.
• Door open button a little closer to the door.
• Toilet door should not be able to lock without anyone inside.
• Larger toilet tanks, they don't last all day and there is only one per unit.

If the 333s are to have 2+2 then it should be proper 2+2. I had to sit next to a chap who was 'manspreading' last night, and had to make do with two-thirds of a seat as far as Bingley! Even on an empty train, the seats are just plain uncomfortable - the 321/322 sets are much better.

 

[ASharpe]

If the 333s are to have 2+2 then it should be proper 2+2. I had to sit next to a chap who was 'manspreading' last night, and had to make do with two-thirds of a seat as far as Bingley! Even on an empty train, the seats are just plain uncomfortable - the 321/322 sets are much better.

Have to disagree. The Airdale line is almost at capacity, the trains can't be lengthened and in the peaks people struggle to get on board. Replacing the seats with fewer larger ones simply isn't going to work. And they really do need some work to make them more suitable for standing if they are to be used on excessively loaded peak services.

 

[xotGD]

Have to disagree. The Airdale line is almost at capacity, the trains can't be lengthened and in the peaks people struggle to get on board. Replacing the seats with fewer larger ones simply isn't going to work. And they really do need some work to make them more suitable for standing if they are to be used on excessively loaded peak services.

The trains are about to be lengthened: 2 x 3-car Class 331. The 333s will be on lighter loader services in future. Or at least, they should be.

Incidentally, the 17:25 Leeds - Morecambe, about as peak time as you can get, is a 3 car Pacer with 2+2 seating.

 

[Dougal2345]

(For those of us with long bony arms)
Padded armrests that are height-adjustable.
Armrest nearest the window should be able to be swivelled up like the others.

Toilets that have an open floor area bigger than about 16" x 16".
Toilets that lock out of use if there is no water for hand-washing (or at least, some big red flashing light that warns you as you go in).
Toilet doors that won't let you out until the basin tap has been operated.
No more of those wads of toilet paper where it's impossible to pull out one sheet at a time.

Speedometer to occasionally appear on the information display.

Trial of 1+1+1 airline seating (possibly with flip down seats in one of the two aisles, although I can't quite see how that would work). It might seem an inefficent use of space, but unlike 2+2 there'd never be empty seats as the train started to fill up and customers would love it.

"This is the quiet zone" recorded announcements.

Bins at the extremeties of 444s.

No underfloor diesel engines. Legroom. (okay, those last two are beyond fantasy, moving into madness).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Toilets that lock out if they run out of water? Stupid idea.

 

[Esker-pades]

"This is the quiet zone" recorded announcements.

So, your solution to make the quite zone more quite is to make more noise to remind people to be quiet?
That shouldn't be a thing.

 

[Dougal2345]

So, your solution to make the quite zone more quite is to make more noise to remind people to be quiet?
That shouldn't be a thing.

The irony hadn't escaped me... but I can more easily cope with an occasional recorded announcement saying (in a relaxed voice, not the stentorian voice of other announcements) "This is the quiet zone" if it makes a few people put their mobiles away...

 

[Severn40]

800 with a separate buffet, sufficient luggage space and comfortable seating. (Ok, laid out for longer distance intercity travel rather than Thames Valley commuting)

 

[Dougal2345]

Toilets that lock out if they run out of water? Stupid idea.

Well it's my fantasy, maybe not yours!

But I like to wash my hands, not in an obsessive way hopefully, but I don't want to 'test' that there's water available before, ummm, you know, because this would waste a fair chunk of water which will only make the tank empty all the sooner... nowadays I normally take a look at the basin to see if there's any evidence of water droplets, and take that as meaning that tap is probably working.

 

[Esker-pades]

The irony hadn't escaped me... but I can more easily cope with an occasional recorded announcement saying (in a relaxed voice, not the stentorian voice of other announcements) "This is the quiet zone" if it makes a few people put their mobiles away...

The current phrase tagged onto the end of long-distance services works well enough. ("Our quiet coach today is coach <whatever>. If you are in this coach, please refrain from making calls etc. blah blah blah.")

 

[Dougal2345]

The current phrase tagged onto the end of long-distance services works well enough. ("Our quiet coach today is coach <whatever>. If you are in this coach, please refrain from making calls etc. blah blah blah.")

Possibly, although it requires the passenger to bother to look up, and check they're in coach <whatever>... whereas 'You're in the Quiet Zone" is pretty unambiguous (even if said in a non-forceful way).

 

[Esker-pades]

Possibly, although it requires the passenger to bother to look up, and check they're in coach <whatever>... whereas 'You're in the Quiet Zone" is pretty unambiguous (even if said in a non-forceful way).

Or see the "QUIET ZONE" stickers in every window.

 

[Dougal2345]

Or see the "QUIET ZONE" stickers in every window.

On the 450 I was on last night the stickers aren't on the windows, they're on (some) of the pillars. One long 'phone call droned on and on...

Still, it was just a 'fantasy', and I think there have been many long threads about the Quiet Zone on here, so I don't want to hijack this one

 

[Esker-pades]

On the 450 I was on last night the stickers aren't on the windows, they're on (some) of the pillars. One long 'phone call droned on and on...

Still, it was just a 'fantasy', and I think there have been many long threads about the Quiet Zone on here, so I don't want to hijack this one

Fair enough. Gits exist after all.

 

[mmh]

Possibly, although it requires the passenger to bother to look up, and check they're in coach <whatever>... whereas 'You're in the Quiet Zone" is pretty unambiguous (even if said in a non-forceful way).

Electrostars and 700s can play different announcements in different coaches, it works well on the many Southern services which split mid-journey. A common announcement plays first (the calling pattern and "please ensure you are travelling in the correct part of the train"), then a per-coach announcement, in a differently toned voice (which I'm not sure why but seems to work well to attract attention to it) of "this is coach number X of Y".

London Overground 378s and 700s play a "the doors in this coach will not open at the next station, please more towards the front to leave the train" style message for stations needing SDO.

It'd be quite nice if that was more widespread.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Class 139
Firstly, sell all three of the Class 139s to Virgin Trains. Replace the engines with ones capable of 125mph and rip out all existing seating. Remodel the floor and lay down stylish new ‘Virgin carpets’ and install Grammer IC3000 (ATW variant) seats in 2+2 arrangement. A new Virgin Trains moquette shall be designed, and this moquette shall include all the famous landmarks around Britain on a piece of lovely bright red cloth, which will undoubtedly get dirty and worn out over time but that’s expected. The majority of seats shall be airline style, with the exception of two bays of seats being centred around a table in the middle section of the train. The two cabs shall be modified so that the driver sits on the far left side of the train in a confined space, similar to Class 450 cabs. The remaining right side of each cab will be converted into essential facilities for passengers. On one end of the train will be a compact buffet bar selling a variety of hot and cold snacks as well as beverages. On the other end of the train will be a state-of-the-art toilet which combines the usual toilet experience with a slice of complimentary entertainment. A small screen (similar to FGW’s Volo TV) will be fitted to one of the interior walls of the toilet, and this will play classic movies on an endless loop in order to aid your toilet experience and make your journey as comfortable as possible. A passenger information system shall also be fitted to the ceiling of the train, Hitachi style (that means green text) and the usual Class 390 announcements shall also be installed to be used when appropriate.

 

[M!T]

Class 333:

• Expand to 12 coaches to alleviate the bone-crushing overcrowding that happens on a daily basis. Lengthen platforms along the Airedale line as required.
• Whatever was done to these units a few years ago that has resulted in them smelling like chemical toilets throughout, undo it.
• Install some kind of remote control for the guard to open the doors at stations. Sometimes you're stuck on the train waiting to get off, or on the platform waiting to get on, for over a minute because the guard isn't where they need to be to unlock the doors when the train stops.

Voyagers:

• Rip out the interiors and replace them with seating that aligns with the windows. For some reason these units are particularly bad for "pillar seats".

All trains:

• MECHANICAL LOCKS ON TOILET DOORS!!!

 

[boxy321]

Or see the "QUIET ZONE" stickers in every window.

Chiltern need huge stickers for this, not postage stamps. It's regularly frequented by completely unaware motormouths.

 

[vlad]

Class 139
(snip rest)

By the time you've done all that I think there's only going to be room for about half a dozen seats!

 

[Dougal2345]

What about this... Fit extending steps to all stock on refurbishment. Initial advantage - safer embarking and disembarking at stations with curved platforms.

But the long term gain, once all the classes used on particular lines are done, is that when track or stations are refurbished, that could be done to the continental loading gauge, and the existing stock could still be used.

Then when that stock is replaced, Britain would no longer be stuck with dinky toytown trains. Might only take a century or so...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Take Voyager. Push over cliff. Go home.

Seriously - rip out the insides of the voyager, fit nicer seats, lighten the decor, remove at least 1 of the toilets, take out first class, fit free wifi and plugs at every seat, remove any catering provision and use every inch of space for seats.

My god I’m so bored of this guy’s terror of first class I know you the idea of it scary but try it once perhaps and you might find it’s not as scary as you think

I choose the nine carriage Class 800/802.

Replace Standard class seats with Mallard seats.

Ditto for First and make seats leather.

Add one additional first class carriage.

Add one standard carriage with buffet to make eleven coaches.

Replace PIS system with TV style information board like Heathrow Express.

Introduce a voice over with a neutral RP accent, no Welsh lilts or Scottish brogues thanks.

Introduce a chime before announcements.

What with the addition of a buffet car in the additional carriage, remove refreshment trolley and replace with duty free like on a plane.

Train number eg (800304) displayed inside the train.

Removal of all those crappy adverts from inside the train. When I’m late for a connection or trying to get home I don’t want to stare at colourful displays telling me to “save these poor wretched Sri Lankan Turtles” or to make the most of QueasyJet’s half price offer on flights to some dodgy place in the middle of Poland. If we want to see a heart rendering appeal or an advert for Vodafone’s “excellent” new data package we can watch daytime TV...

Amend exterior information display because it’s just confusing, like “10:20 Swindon” when 1020 is the time it leaves Reading...

Designate a carriage for quiet zone and base the TM there to ensure kids do not laugh or play loudly, football fans do not chant Glory Glory Tottenham Hotspur like it’s going out of fashion and chavs do not yell “Hey babes im on da train innit” at the top of the voice into their phone in a fake Essex accent...

Together, we can build a better IET for all.

 

[DarloRich]

My god I’m so bored of this guy’s terror of first class I know you the idea of it scary but try it once perhaps and you might find it’s not as scary as you think

I have been in first class many times. The difference between me and many posters here is that i pay full price for the tickets - or claimed them on expenses in a previous life which meant the client paid. These days with adult responsibilities to meet from my funds alone and no client expense account those trips become less frequent.

The point which you seem to miss is that FC on a 4 carriage train takes up valuable space that could be used to carry more passengers. It is rarely full and I suspect the revenue loss would be inconsequential.