FANTASY: You're in charge of your own Open Access operator.

[backontrack]

Here's a simple idea.

Suppose, for a second, that you are in charge of your own Open Access train operator. Where do you run to, which trains do you run and what livery do they wear?

Any Open Access operator needs to serve a sizeable market without being totally abstractive. Where in the UK is this possible?

 

[mrcheek]

I dont know where I'm going or why, but I will be using a HST.

 

[Merseysider]

Well, you did say fantasy, so here goes.

Perhaps only viable in the summer; Liverpool - Halton Curve - Chester - Shrewsbury - Newport - Bristol - (Exeter - Plymouth) or (Salisbury - Bath - Southampton - Portsmouth).

Major calls only as most of this route is dreadfully slow and requires several changes on crappy 2-car DMUs.

No idea what’d be suitable to run the whole length though

 

[BluePenguin]

I would run a service from Ramsgate to Brighton via Tonbridge and Redhill. One would call at all stations to Folkestone then Ashford, Tonbridge, Redhil, Gatwick Airport and Brighton. The other would call at Canterbury West and all stations as above.

Also a semi fast service from Tonbridge to Redhil. Also aservice from Bristol To Ashford via Gatwick and Redhill. Kent has long been disconnect from Gatwick and the West.

I would also run service from Gatwick Airport to Heathrow Airport via East Croydon. This is a much needed service for connections and way to get between the airport or from elsewhere by avoiding London.

Another route I would run would be Bromley South to Birmingham New Street.

I would also run a service from Margate to Glasgow Central by connecting HS1 to the WCML and later HS2. This would allow for people from the South East to make journeys to the North without having to change in London.

 

[SEClass375]

If only Marshlink was electrified so I could run a costal service on a comfortable EMU from Margate all the way round to Southampton.

Also extending the Reading to Gatwick Airport to Tonbridge wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[JohnRegular]

As has been discussed in other threads, there isn't great connectivity along the south coast. I suspect there is a market for a fast regional service between major south coast settlements.
Trying to keep it outside of the reams of utter wibble, I might suggest fast Portsmouth-Plymouth services (Portsmouth Harbour, P'mth S/S, Fareham, So'ton Ctl, Salisbury, Yeovil Jn, Exeter St Davids, Plymouth) and fast Brighton-Weymouth services (Brighton, Worthing, Chichester, Havant, Fareham, So'ton Ctl, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Poole, Weymouth).
If nothing else, the latter would speed up the currently tedious Southampton-Brighton journey.

 

[Envoy]

I would run Cardiff > Newport > Hereford > Shrewsbury > Crewe > Warrington > Preston > Lancaster > Penrith > Carlisle > Edinburgh. I would call it the 'Celtic Capitals Express’.

This is by far the shortest & quickest route between Cardiff & Scotland. Unfortunately, ridiculously high fares are set for this route - probably by Cross Country = a TOC that you would not even use - unless you went the long way via Newcastle. (You can reduce the fare by doing a split at Crewe - where you change from ATW to Virgin).

I would also run Cardiff >Newport > Gloucester > Cheltenham > Birmingham > Derby > Sheffield > Doncaster > York > Durham > Newcastle.

Ideally, for both the above, I would use 5 coach Class 800’s.

 

[Agent_Squash]

I'd call my open access operator 'Furness and Lakes', funding the electrification of both the Furness line and Windermere privately (because lets face it, NR isn't going to get round to doing either of them any time soon) and several other infrastructure improvements (110mph east of Ulverston on the Furness line where practical, for example) - these improvements alone will make rail competitive to road in both areas.

Then, I'd use refurbished 350/2's into a intercity layout to run a much improved service on both lines, and while a bit crayonista may actually encourage some significant growth of railway traffic, with an additional service per hour on the Windermere line (to Manchester Airport) and an additional 5 on the Furness Line:

• 1tph to Manchester Airport (joining/dividing at Lancaster with the service to/from Windermere)
• 2tph to Manchester Airport/Liverpool Lime Street (joining/dividing at Wigan North Western)
• 2tph to Crewe

This would most likely encourage the DfT to remove some stops from the Franchise Agreements of Northern and VT, with it being potentially possible for Northern to have reduced service obligations with Lakes-MIA and delivering a turn up and go frequency for the Furness line.

 

[AlterEgo]

In true RailUK style let’s start with a livery. All-black with a single silver stripe below the windows.

Stock: let’s go with Class 800 bi-modes.

Service: I’d have two classes. Standard and First Class. First Class to have 2+1 seating and no dedicated fares, only variable priced upgrades available on the train. No service provided on a complimentary basis, but passengers in both classes to be able to purchase hot meals and snacks from a host.

Route: Liverpool via Manchester to Glasgow, and Nottingham to Edinburgh via Manchester and Glasgow.

 

[Parallel]

I’d run services from Birmingham Moor Street to Weymouth and Salisbury. Calling at Solihull, Dorridge, Warwick, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford, Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge and Westbury with the train dividing. Front three coaches going to Warminster and Salisbury. Rear 2 coaches going to Frome, Bruton, Castle Cary, Yeovil Pen Mill, Maiden Newton, Dorchester West and Weymouth.

Not all services would divide, only a few. There would be more frequent services between just Salisbury and Birmingham Moor St.

The stock would use 175s.

 

[backontrack]

I'd call my open access operator 'Furness and Lakes', funding the electrification of both the Furness line and Windermere privately (because lets face it, NR isn't going to get round to doing either of them any time soon) and several other infrastructure improvements (110mph east of Ulverston on the Furness line where practical, for example) - these improvements alone will make rail competitive to road in both areas.

Then, I'd use refurbished 350/2's into a intercity layout to run a much improved service on both lines, and while a bit crayonista may actually encourage some significant growth of railway traffic, with an additional service per hour on the Windermere line (to Manchester Airport) and an additional 5 on the Furness Line:

• 1tph to Manchester Airport (joining/dividing at Lancaster with the service to/from Windermere)
• 2tph to Manchester Airport/Liverpool Lime Street (joining/dividing at Wigan North Western)
• 2tph to Crewe

This would most likely encourage the DfT to remove some stops from the Franchise Agreements of Northern and VT, with it being potentially possible for Northern to have reduced service obligations with Lakes-MIA and delivering a turn up and go frequency for the Furness line.

And I'd add to this a 1tp2h fast service running Whitehaven-Workington-Maryport-Wigton-Carlisle-Haltwhistle-Hexham-Prudhoe-Metrocentre-Newcastle-Durham-Stockton-Thornaby-Middlesbrough-South Bank-Redcar Central, using 180s if possible.

This would be backed up by a more stopping Northern service (i.e. 1tph Dumfries-Annan-Gretna-Carlisle-Wetheral-Brampton (1tp2h)-Gilsland (1tp2h)-Haltwhistle-Bardon Mill (1tp2h)-Haydon Bridge-Hexham-Prudhoe-Metrocentre-Newcastle-Sunderland, and 1tph Hexham-all shacks to Nunthorpe via the Durham Coast Line). On Newcastle matchdays, services on the Hadrian's Wall Country Line are often standing room only from Carlisle.

 

[BluePenguin]

If only Marshlink was electrified so I could run a costal service on a comfortable EMU from Margate all the way round to Southampton.

Also extending the Reading to Gatwick Airport to Tonbridge wouldn't be a bad idea.

That would be absolutely brilliant! We have needed a service like this for ages. Have you thought about the route it would take? I am not sure if trains can run fast Brighton on the flat without going north and reversing.

 

[backontrack]

I’d run services from Birmingham Moor Street to Weymouth and Salisbury. Calling at Solihull, Dorridge, Warwick, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford, Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge and Westbury with the train dividing. Front three coaches going to Warminster and Salisbury. Rear 2 coaches going to Frome, Bruton, Castle Cary, Yeovil Pen Mill, Maiden Newton, Dorchester West and Weymouth.

Not all services would divide, only a few. There would be more frequent services between just Salisbury and Birmingham Moor St.

The stock would use 175s.

Like this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-Op_(train_operating_company)

 

[BluePenguin]

As has been discussed in other threads, there isn't great connectivity along the south coast. I suspect there is a market for a fast regional service between major south coast settlements.
Trying to keep it outside of the reams of utter wibble, I might suggest fast Portsmouth-Plymouth services (Portsmouth Harbour, P'mth S/S, Fareham, So'ton Ctl, Salisbury, Yeovil Jn, Exeter St Davids, Plymouth) and fast Brighton-Weymouth services (Brighton, Worthing, Chichester, Havant, Fareham, So'ton Ctl, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Poole, Weymouth).
If nothing else, the latter would speed up the currently tedious Southampton-Brighton journey.

Southampton Central to Brighton is awfully slow! We desperately need this to be sped up

 

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

And I'd add to this a 1tp2h fast service running Whitehaven-Workington-Maryport-Wigton-Carlisle-Haltwhistle-Hexham-Prudhoe-Metrocentre-Newcastle-Durham-Stockton-Thornaby-Middlesbrough-South Bank-Redcar Central, using 180s if possible.

This would be backed up by a more stopping Northern service (i.e. 1tph Dumfries-Annan-Gretna-Carlisle-Wetheral-Brampton (1tp2h)-Gilsland (1tp2h)-Haltwhistle-Bardon Mill (1tp2h)-Haydon Bridge-Hexham-Prudhoe-Metrocentre-Newcastle-Sunderland, and 1tph Hexham-all shacks to Nunthorpe via the Durham Coast Line). On Newcastle matchdays, services on the Hadrian's Wall Country Line are often standing room only from Carlisle.

Next timetable should see the Tyne Valley go to 2 per hour between 0800-2000 roughly. One express and one stopper, so not too far from your wish!

 

[Parallel]

Like this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-Op_(train_operating_company)

Oh.

 

[backontrack]

Next timetable should see the Tyne Valley go to 2 per hour between 0800-2000 roughly. One express and one stopper, so not too far from your wish!

That's quite good, though I'd like to see the expresses extended to run from Whitehaven to Middlesbrough via the Stillington Line. A quick(ish) service between the main towns in Cumbria and the North East is desperately needed. An hourly (at least) frequency between Dumfries and Carlisle, accompanied by a new station at Eastriggs, would be good too.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Southampton Central to Brighton is awfully slow! We desperately need this to be sped up

That will be awfully tricky, there are loads of stations and even skip-stop patterns will need a lot of work to speed up the longer distance trips on the West Coastway. I use the West Coastway (and the level crossings over it!) a good deal and there are lots of trains one behind the other (to use the technical term).

 

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

That's quite good, though I'd like to see the expresses extended to run from Whitehaven to Middlesbrough via the Stillington Line. A quick(ish) service between the main towns in Cumbria and the North East is desperately needed. An hourly (at least) frequency between Dumfries and Carlisle, accompanied by a new station at Eastriggs, would be good too.

Some will run Carlisle to Boro and vice versa. Eventually they’ll be under the Connect banner. With a doubling of frequency, change from the Cumbrian Coast and Dumfries will be much quicker too.

 

[Bwlch y Groes]

I like the idea of a Cleethorpes-London service which apparently went down well with the DfT/ORR when Grand Central suggested it

Station stops for me would be Cleethorpes, Grimsby Town, Habrough, Barnetby, Lincoln, Newark NG, and Kings Cross. Would use redundant HSTs painted in a black, white and red livery hinting at a certain well-known colour scheme...

Otherwise I'd definitely like to give that old idea of running a service from the Valleys to somewhere further afield, as per the old Pontypridd-Portsmouth proposal from the Valley Lines franchise - providing the Welsh Assembly don't mess it all up by converting it to light rail, of course

Perhaps something like Pontypridd, Radyr, Cardiff Central (via the City Line), Newport, Severn Tunnel Junction, Bristol Temple Meads (reverse), Bath Spa, Newbury, Reading. Again, a shortened old HST would do the trick

 

[backontrack]

I like the idea of a Cleethorpes-London service which apparently went down well with the DfT/ORR when Grand Central suggested it

Station stops for me would be Cleethorpes, Grimsby Town, Habrough, Barnetby, Lincoln, Newark NG, and Kings Cross. Would use redundant HSTs painted in a black, white and red livery hinting at a certain well-known colour scheme...

I think I'd also serve Grimsby Docks and Market Rasen - possibly Hykeham too. Or I might route it differently with stops at Scunthorpe, Crowle, Doncaster, New Rossington and Bawtry...

 

[Iskra]

I'd have 3 routes. Depot at Hellifield.

- Settle-Manchester Vic: Settle-Hellifield-Clitheroe all stops to Blackburn then Bolton and Salford Central only.
- Glasgow-Nottingham (you know where this is going...): Glasgow, Motherwell, Lockerbie, Carlisle, Appleby, Kirkby Stephen, Settle, Hellifield, Skipton, Keighley, Bingley, Shipley, Leeds, Wakefield Kirkgate, Barnsley, Meadowhall, Sheffield, Chesterfield, Alfreton, Nottingham
- Barrow-Hull: Barrow, Ulverston, Grange, Arnside, Carnforth, Lancaster, Carnforth, Bentham, Hellifield, Skipton, Keighley, Bingley, Shipley, Leeds, Selby, Brough, Hull.

The Glasgow and Barrow trains could split/join between Hellifield and Leeds to save a path if necessary. I'd use something like 185's to start with. I'm not sure they would pass the abstractive test, but it would provide some much needed frequency improvements, capacity or faster journey times on: Barrow-Lancaster, Lancaster-Leeds, Glasgow/Carlisle-Leeds, Leeds-Hull, Leeds-Sheffield/Nottingham, Hellifield-Clitheroe, Clitheroe/Blackburn-Manchester.

 

[BluePenguin]

That will be awfully tricky, there are loads of stations and even skip-stop patterns will need a lot of work to speed up the longer distance trips on the West Coastway. I use the West Coastway (and the level crossings over it!) a good deal and there are lots of trains one behind the other (to use the technical term).

I think this would be the most suitable skip stopping pattern:

Brighton, Worthing, Chichester, Havant, Fareham, So'ton Ctl. Then each other one continuing to: Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Poole and Weymouth

 

[goblinuser]

Name: General Rail Services LTD
Fleet: Top and tail Class 37s and 20s with Mk3 coaches
Livery: All white coaches with black doors
Routes: Willesden Junction to Southend via NLL and GOBLIN, Gospel Oak to Stratford, and other links.
I don't know how viable it would be in reality, but it would be insanely cool

 

[Bwlch y Groes]

I think I'd also serve Grimsby Docks and Market Rasen - possibly Hykeham too. Or I might route it differently with stops at Scunthorpe, Crowle, Thorne South, Hatfield & Stainforth, Doncaster, New Rossington and Bawtry...

The problem is you'll end up bogging down the service with way so many stops it becomes pointless to go from Cleethorpes to London via the service, especially using something like an HST - it's not exactly the quickest-accelerating train. The original GC proposal was Cleethorpes-Grimsby-Habrough-Barnetby-Scunthorpe-Doncaster-Kings Cross which makes sense because you still keep the reasonable journey time. If it called at all stops between Scunthorpe and Doncaster and more new stations, it loses its point

 

[Clansman]

Glasgow/Edinburgh to Swansea/Bristol via WCML using 7-car 222s.

 

[johnnychips]

The problem is you'll end up bogging down the service with way so many stops it becomes pointless to go from Cleethorpes to London via the service, especially using something like an HST - it's not exactly the quickest-accelerating train. The original GC proposal was Cleethorpes-Grimsby-Habrough-Barnetby-Scunthorpe-Doncaster-Kings Cross which makes sense because you still keep the reasonable journey time. If it called at all stops between Scunthorpe and Doncaster and more new stations, it loses its point

I think he was joking

 

[a_c_skinner]

I think this would be the most suitable skip stopping pattern:
Brighton, Worthing, Chichester, Havant, Fareham, So'ton Ctl. Then each other one continuing to: Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Poole and Weymouth

There isn't enough headway between the stoppers to win much time, is there? You'll forever be running up behind the train ahead.

 

[BluePenguin]

There isn't enough headway between the stoppers to win much time, is there? You'll forever be running up behind the train ahead.

No, not really. With a bit of luck they would be timetabled with enough space in between to prevent services catching up with each other though.

I think that instead of running so many services, the Southern services could be timetabled so that passengers for Portsmouth on Southampton trains or vice versa could change en route at Havant or earlier. This would allow them to connect with a Portsmouth to Southampton stopping service or a GWR one from Cardiff.

 

[backontrack]

I'd have 3 routes. Depot at Hellifield.

- Settle-Manchester Vic: Settle-Hellifield-Clitheroe all stops to Blackburn then Bolton and Salford Central only.
- Glasgow-Nottingham (you know where this is going...): Glasgow, Motherwell, Lockerbie, Carlisle, Appleby, Kirkby Stephen, Hellifield, Skipton, Keighley, Bingley, Shipley, Leeds, Wakefield Kirkgate, Barnsley, Meadowhall, Sheffield, Chesterfield, Alfreton, Nottingham
- Barrow-Hull: Barrow, Ulverston, Grange, Arnside, Carnforth, Lancaster, Carnforth, Bentham, Hellifield, Skipton, Keighley, Bingley, Shipley, Leeds, Selby, Brough, Hull.

The Glasgow and Barrow trains could split/join between Hellifield and Leeds to save a path if necessary. I'd use something like 185's to start with. I'm not sure they would pass the abstractive test, but it would provide some much needed frequency improvements, capacity or faster journey times on: Barrow-Lancaster, Lancaster-Leeds, Glasgow/Carlisle-Leeds, Leeds-Hull, Leeds-Sheffield/Nottingham, Hellifield-Clitheroe, Clitheroe/Blackburn-Manchester.

Another interesting proposal. I do think that it would be sensible for Leeds-Lancaster services to run to Barrow.